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Old 11-21-2003, 10:27 PM   #1
mclarenf1gtrv12
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Thumbs Up opening up exhaust manifold

Yes i have been wondering if it is possible to tear out all that honey comb type material out of the exhaust manifold i was wondering what type of effect it could have and if it could create bad problems and also i would like to know if any one has a how to on doing that even though i know its simpler then hell to do , i just want to make sure. thank you

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Old 11-21-2003, 10:35 PM   #2
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You live in CALIFORNIA. That honeycomb is a precatlist REQUIRED for CA emmissions. Monkey with it, and or destroy it, and you won't pass CA emmissions.

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Old 11-21-2003, 10:37 PM   #3
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What year and car are you talking about?

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Old 11-21-2003, 11:26 PM   #4
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I've replaced my Cali exhaust manifold.You should be able to pound out the element with ease.Mine was breaking up inside the
manifold and making a racket.So,wanting to be able to drive my car and pass inspection,I bought a brand new one for $271 from SPS.My local dealer wanted $319.
I recently passed the NY emissions test with ease.
I would'nt screw with it unless it's broken up like mine was.They will force you to buy a new one when they catch onto what you did.

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Old 11-22-2003, 12:27 AM   #5
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Taking out the pre-catalyst won't likely cause you to fail an emissions test, as it's mostly there for cold-start emissions which isn't what most vehicle-inspection emissions tests check. However, removing or disabling an originally equipped emissions device from a vehicle is a violation of federal law in the US.

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Old 11-22-2003, 01:23 AM   #6
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They say you learn something new everyday...

I didn't know there was a precatalyst in the cali manifolds...

wow...

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Old 11-22-2003, 01:27 AM   #7
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yeah i know these things but my quesyion wasnt is if it was illegal it was can it be done and how to do it and if i do do it will it screw with my 02 sensor or what will happen. o and my saturn is a 02 sl2 and the only reason i would ever need to gett it smogged again is if i dont keep getting new tags for it and i let it sit . well thank you for your replies

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Old 11-22-2003, 01:33 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by mclarenf1gtrv12
yeah i know these things but my quesyion wasnt is if it was illegal it was can it be done and how to do it and if i do do it will it screw with my 02 sensor or what will happen. o and my saturn is a 02 sl2 and the only reason i would ever need to gett it smogged again is if i dont keep getting new tags for it and i let it sit . well thank you for your replies
Listen to the above posters, there is nothing to be gained except breaking the law by removing the honeycomb substrate in your pre-cat. If it's a horsepower gain you are looking for, a cold air intake will be far more effective than punching out your cat, and a lot less illegal.

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Old 11-22-2003, 08:57 AM   #9
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This is a popular mod in the Cougar community. The Cougar, being a V-6, has a "precat" on both manifolds, and a main catalytic converter behind the Y-pipe. Removing our precat material gets us 8-10 horsepower on the dyno.

There is a downstream O2 sensor on the Ford that measures precat efficiency, so we either buy or build "MIL Eliminators" that plug into the O2 sensor to stabilize the readings and prevent your Check Engine Light from lighting because of low precat efficiency.

Plenty of people in California and elsewhere have done this and passed emissions. The precat is there to control emissions during the first minute or less after a cold start.

The reason: catalysts do not work cold. The closer they are to the engine, the faster they heat up. Precats get up to operating temperature VERY quickly, due to their proximity to the combustion chamber. Later onm the main cat gets up to temp.

So the only stipulation with smog is that you must be tested at full operating temperature.

Amazinghl lives in cali, and has headers. His last smog sheet looked like Prius numbers, so those precats don't do a THING after the engine's warm..

But keep in mind, this is ILLEGAL. As is driving 56 or more in a 55 zone...

...
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Old 11-22-2003, 10:00 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Saturn-Eh!
If it's a horsepower gain you are looking for, a cold air intake will be far more effective than punching out your cat, and a lot less illegal.
A lot less illegal, ROFL.


Quote:
Originally posted by bennett9000
Amazinghl lives in cali, and has headers. His last smog sheet looked like Prius numbers, so those precats don't do a THING after the engine's warm..
I just have one header.

I also have a OBD I car and did not come with a pre-cat.
Walker cat is what I have now..

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00 Insight 50mpg++

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Old 11-22-2003, 10:49 AM   #11
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I'd just leave it be.Besides it's about a 4 hour job {that's how long it took me}and a bit tricky to line up the AC compressor in it's bracket again too.

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Old 11-22-2003, 01:10 PM   #12
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well from my understandin know it is possible to punch it out and pass smog so wait do they not test cold starting at smog test shopsor what and to all you guys out there who are tellin me not to do it why have a precat that restricts my exhaust and muffles the sound if i can just tear it out for a cost of nothing and still pass smog.

every little hp increase means a difference

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Old 11-22-2003, 07:47 PM   #13
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Why?
Because some engineers spent a lot of time and money to fit that thing into your car to work in time with everything else!
I'm no "tree hugger" environmentalist,but I like the fact that I have TWO cats at bat for me when I go in for the very tough NY metro area smog test which involves your car being driven on a dyno.
I could have just banged out my old one too,but why gamble getting caught or just plain failing the test?

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Old 11-22-2003, 08:00 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by bennett9000

Amazinghl lives in cali, and has headers. His last smog sheet looked like Prius numbers, so those precats don't do a THING after the engine's warm..

Amazing's car is also a 93'. It never had a precat to remove, and has to pass less strict 93' OBD1 emmissions stnadards. Precats debued in in the OBD2 cars in 96' or so to meet the MUCH STRICKTER 96' standards. You have to remember that emmissions standards get TOUGHER every year, BUT older cars have to meet the OLDER standards, while newer cars must meet the standards for the year of their manufacture.

I will only add that "Removing or modifying an OEM emmissions componant, other than for repair or replacement with a like compoanat, is a violation of Federal law"

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Old 11-23-2003, 07:26 PM   #15
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It was probably the introduction of the cold-start carbon monoxide emissions standards that led to the pre-catalysts being installed. Usually these standards don't take effect for one specific model year, they're phased in so that the first year, 20% of a manufacturer's vehicles must comply, the next year 80%, the next 100%, or something like that.

The air-injection system on the 2002 models was probably installed for the same reason. I would guess that a major reason for Saturn no longer using the 1.9L engine was its inability to meet the emissions standards without somewhat expensive add-ons like EGR, AIR and a pre-catalyst..

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Old 11-23-2003, 09:24 PM   #16
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Great points.
I had a '74 Super Beetle that would'nt start unless the seatbelt was buckled!:o:

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Old 11-23-2003, 11:53 PM   #17
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That was the federal law.

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00 Insight 50mpg++

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Old 11-24-2003, 02:34 AM   #18
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In NY state laws requires seat belts buckle up !! If caught without wearing it, $50 fine and possible adding points on your driver license . buckle up = save life. other states follows seat belts laws also.

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Old 11-24-2003, 10:20 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by auxmike
I had a '74 Super Beetle that would'nt start unless the seatbelt was buckled!:o:
I wish we had cars like that here in PA. It's unbelieveable the number of completely clueless people we have here. I guess they never heard how cops say they "Never unbuckled a dead person."

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Old 11-24-2003, 12:14 PM   #20
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Not to mention, leather seats don't hold the driver in place very well under hard cornering...

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