Potential Purchase

[Ricketts]

Hi folks - have been running a 2000 Saturn SC1 for many many years but the ol' girl is getting tired. I have been looking at newer cars and most of them these days frankly scare me with the amount of failure points in electronics, so I have been thinking of staying a few years back and hopefully get a car from a simpler time. Plus the cost these days...ugh.

I have been looking at an 2008 Saturn Astra XR with a 5 speed and approximately 67000 miles on it. I have been doing some research and see some issues like:

Coil packs
Exhaust Flex pipe
Rear brakes wearing quicker than front

The car is a Canadian car, driven in the winter, but the owner has indicated the car has had regular rust preventative oil treatments to the body and undercarriage. However, are there any rust prone areas underneath or on the body I should be looking at that would give a good overall idea on the condition of the car?

If anyone has any input on whether this would be a reliable car for the next few years let me know, as well as any other things I should be looking at, other items prone to failure, etc. Availability of parts too. I do most of my own wrenching and have never really had an issue finding parts for my SC1. It would be nice if the Astra was as easy as the S series to work on.

I am hoping to take a long driving vacation through the southern US this winter so hoping for something that would get me through.

Thanks for any and all help folks!

Rick

[AstraFasta]

I'll take a stab.

Your first stop are the videos from Big_Mike. Videos include a buying guide for 200k mile, manual transmission car with some rust in Minnesota

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=269081

_____

Overall, I think these are zippy, nice handling cars that are fun and practical. The engines are only about 140 bhp so they are not fast. They are a lot like the VW Golf overall.

I think a good low-mileage Astra can be fine with someone who like DIY repairs but at this stage may by a bit overwhelming for someone that relies only on a mechanic.

The engines and computers are super sensitive, so you really need OEM for most replacement parts.

The Astra H or Mk5 as it is called, was a best seller in Europe. So there is good parts support new and used from Europe. And robust forums.

We find most of the parts pretty easily in North America with a few exceptions, in my experience. This forum is pretty good although the community is pretty small.

The Astra's z18xer engine is seen in many other cars (e.g. Cruze, Sonic) so that helps with parts availability.

I would want to verify the mileage, as that is pretty low.

The fasteners are metric and include torx and hex, so you may need some new tools.

- The rust protection on these cars is good overall, but 15 years in salty winters can take its toll. Get the car on a lift for inspection. Our salty car is in pretty good shape underneath but thinking about some rust reformer these days.

- Clutches seem to typically go around 100-120k miles but that varies. It is pretty expensive to replace on FWD cars.

- The timing belt interval is in the owners' manual. The longest interval I have seen for this engine was (the shorter of) 100k or 10 years. The belt, idler pulley, and tensioner are sold in a kit. There is a great tutorial here for doing that service. So if you don't have that service documented, it is due.

- The emergency brake cable ends are prone to water ingress, corroding the cable. So over time, the rear brake pads will drag, particularly in salty areas. The cable is incredibly cheap (I think we paid $30 OEM). Changing it requires dropping the exhaust a bit but is not that difficult.

- I think the OEM spark plugs are copper with 25k replacement intervals. If the owner didn't change those, the spark plug gaps widen, and the coil packs work too hard, and die. We purchased some long-life iridium plugs and an AC Delco coil pack. I suppose the OEM copper plugs are higher performing but require too much effort. Changing the plugs and coil pack take 15 minutes tops.

- The tire pressure monitoring system does not require programming. Just the proper sensor with a good battery in each tire. That could save some money.

- Inspect the exhaust for leaks and damage:

--- The flex pipes tend to rust out on these. Find a good welder to weld on a high-quality flex pipe when needed.

---The resonator can sometimes leaks at the long seam from rust. OEM style is only available from Europe but a local shop may cobble something together

--- If you need more exhaust parts, there are options in North America and Europe (check you can get a Canadian compliant exhaust manifold/cat).

- Drop links don't last too long on these cars. You can upgrade to metal ones (grease fittings will extend life if you don't mind greasing them periodically). These are cheap but rusted nuts can be tough to remove.

- Tie rod ends seem to last longer but still not too long. Cheap but require front end alignment.

- Springs can break both front and rear although I don't think it is too common. By 100k you should be considering new springs & struts & shocks (plus strut mounts) anyways. Availability in North America gets a bit difficult. There are easy Euro sources posted here in the forums.

- The cheap CD30 radio can cause parasitic draws; I resolved by installing a relay that turns off the radio with the ignition. The better cd40 does not seem to have that issue.

- The main ground wire can corrode at the starter in a salty environment. You can identify that problem with a voltage drop test and visual inspection. I just ran a second ground in parallel from the starter to the battery.

- The roof rack paint is cheap and the 4 plastic covers break. One can DIY repaint and buy replacement plastic covers cheaply on eBay.

- The 5 door models have rubber seal on the b-pillar that deteriorates, particularly on the drivers' side. That is available in Russia, Poland, Brazil, etc. but is expensive. I went to a junkyard and just found a passenger side bit and put that on. Good enough.

- The PCV flapper is built into the valve cover. It eventually fails, so requires a new valve cover (and gasket). The valve cover gasket tends to leak sometimes. That is very easy to replace and pretty cheap.

- Some of these cars have a dieseling sound for 1-2 seconds on the first morning start. That often is the VVT system (e.g. the phasers but some Russians and Mexicans claim that the root cause often is an oil check valve behind the alternator).

- Must use full synthetic DEXOS oil per the manual. I would consider frequent changes as the VVT system is very sensitive.

- The paint is delicate. Particularly on top of the bumpers. The roof and hood of our Astra are in fair shape now.

- Put the car on a lift and look for oil leaks. For example, the valve cover gasket, the oil cooler and oil pressure sender (both common leakers and both behind the exhaust manifold), oil pan. The oil cooler leaks typically require a GM seal kit (remove exhaust manifold, drain oil, drain coolant).

- The computer systems can be a bit difficult in extreme situations, as they are some hybrid of European and N. American systems. Someone here recently noted that his Buick dealer had no issues (the 2016-2019 Buick Cascaida is just an Astra J Mk6 convertible). I don't see many posts here where this is an issue but it is not unheard of:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KB-5MlssGwo

Finally, this thread documents some maintenance and repairs we have done. I don't think this level is typical (we have the troublesome automatic transmission & also have done an extreme level of maintenance). The car drives virtually like a brand new car IMHO.

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=208132

[Ricketts]

Wow, thanks for the detailed info AstraFasta. That was more than a stab!

I've been taking care of my SC for many years, and have always been impressed with how easy most of the repairs can be on this thing. I'm at 240K km's so I think my clutch is started to give me grief. I just did another 2K trip with it to my family for Christmas and I still have no problem taking this ol car across country. No issues, just potentially clutch as indicated. That is actually the main concern with my SC, I don't think the car is worth replacing the clutch unless I could do it myself, and that is something that I don't think I feel like tackling at my age.

I am hoping for something that would be that reliable. My SC is only 100hp, so 140 would feel like a rocketship to me. Of course the Astra weighs more but safety has a weight cost.

The Astra owner swapped out the oem radio, so I imagine he has experienced the parasitic draw as you mentioned.

Thanks for the detailed info - that is awesome! On the SC forum we have a sticky with a bunch of info like this at the top. Your post should be a sticky

[AstraFasta]

Awesome. I would emphasize that these cars don't have breakneck acceleration. But they were designed for high-speed European roads, so the handling is excellent so that is what makes them so much fun IMHO (the front-wheel drive obviously isn't ideal for handling). Also, I think these are good in the snow. Some Astras came with traction control too; we don't have it but have expensive tires.

So are you going to check out the Astra or look for something else?

I would speculate the previous owner changed the radio to get modern map, phone, music streaming functions. Not for any parasitic draw issue. Can't be 100% sure without asking but plenty of owners upgrade Astra radios.

In fact, CD30 parasitic drain is not that common as far as I can tell from the forums. Well, there was a different CD30 defect around 2005, but that is unrelated as North America only has 2008-2009 Astras.

[Ricketts]

The car is about 4 hours from me so I'm trying to work out the logistics on meeting up - thanks for the details!

[AstraFasta]

Keep us posted.

I see you have an SC1 - my buddy also had one and loved it.

[PaulR]

Originally Posted by Ricketts

Hi folks - have been running a 2000 Saturn SC1 for many many years but the ol' girl is getting tired. I have been looking at newer cars and most of them these days frankly scare me with the amount of failure points in electronics, so I have been thinking of staying a few years back and hopefully get a car from a simpler time. Plus the cost these days...ugh.

I have been looking at an 2008 Saturn Astra XR with a 5 speed and approximately 67000 miles on it. I have been doing some research and see some issues like:

Coil packs
Exhaust Flex pipe
Rear brakes wearing quicker than front

The car is a Canadian car, driven in the winter, but the owner has indicated the car has had regular rust preventative oil treatments to the body and undercarriage. However, are there any rust prone areas underneath or on the body I should be looking at that would give a good overall idea on the condition of the car?

If anyone has any input on whether this would be a reliable car for the next few years let me know, as well as any other things I should be looking at, other items prone to failure, etc. Availability of parts too. I do most of my own wrenching and have never really had an issue finding parts for my SC1. It would be nice if the Astra was as easy as the S series to work on.

I am hoping to take a long driving vacation through the southern US this winter so hoping for something that would get me through.

Thanks for any and all help folks!

Rick

It cannot get much simpler than a 2000 SC1 as a daily driver to repair and maintain today. It was a much simpler time.

Yup, everything about the Astra that you and AstraFasta wrote is true.

But if I may add another couple on the subject of rust and corrosion. Look for rusting at the seam on the front floor pan reinforcements. The seam will swell. Rust was present there on my XE. To repair it, I first ground out as much rust as possible, treated the little remaining rust with POR-15, primed the area with rust inhibitive primer, re textured it with "gravel guard" spray coating followed with a coat of flat black paint. Rust has since reappeared there after three years, so it will have to be done again. Also check the aluminum exhaust heat shields. They will corrode around the mounting screws and loosen and fall. I ground off what few studs were left holding mine up and fastened them with hex head sheet metal screws with lots of anti-seize applied to the threads and oversized washers. Then again, a lot of owners just would just tear them off.

Saturn Astras can go long distances today if maintained. I took a solo 4,805 mile trip in my XE from Wisconsin to California and back this past May. It was comfortable and relaxing for me anyway. So I don't need an enormous SUV with eight cup holders.