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Old 11-04-2003, 05:29 PM   #1
Leo
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Dizzy Saturn had a really bad month of sales in October

down -34.2%. Worse month to date percentage than all other brands of GM, including Oldsmobile and Isuzu. GM as a whole is down -7.2% in October sales.

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Old 11-04-2003, 06:15 PM   #2
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the L and ION are disasterous

without the VUE Saturn=Oldsmobile

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Old 11-04-2003, 06:22 PM   #3
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All ya have to do is look at the ION sedans front end and you can tell it would not sell. They were to be a design younger people would like. My Daughter just bought a new LW300, she's 21. She hates the ION Sedan from every angle, and she wanted four big doors. My Son 24 hates the Sedan but likes the QC. Me I like the QC but would never buy that ugly Sedan.

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Old 11-04-2003, 06:23 PM   #4
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Put that Honda 3.5L in the LSeries, and offer an optional 5 speed, and I guarantee sales will go up.

...
-Travis

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Old 11-04-2003, 06:28 PM   #5
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Well, without the MBG, less folks would might have wanted to buy one but were never really sure will never know. Look for the prices to go down due to this great savings too <not>.

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Old 11-04-2003, 07:22 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by SL2CAM
All ya have to do is look at the ION sedans front end and you can tell it would not sell. They were to be a design younger people would like. My Daughter just bought a new LW300, she's 21. She hates the ION Sedan from every angle, and she wanted four big doors. My Son 24 hates the Sedan but likes the QC. Me I like the QC but would never buy that ugly Sedan.
I liked my '92 SL2 just fine, but I also love my Ion3 sedan. Then again I don't judge cars based off subjective stuff like interior cloth, center IP's, or whatever else.

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Old 11-04-2003, 08:29 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jaseball
Then again I don't judge cars based off subjective stuff like interior cloth, center IP's, or whatever else.
The problem is, most people DO...

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Old 11-04-2003, 10:26 PM   #8
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I like the center mounted IP. I like it on the Sedan as much as I do on the QC. But I do not like the look of a ION Sedan and I do not see a problem with looking at something and not liking the way it looks.
I remember the first day a ION sedan rolled into the store. We were all out looking it over. Not one person and I mean NOT ONE employee of the Store said. Damn that car looks great it's going to be a hit. Looks sell cars if you like it or not. Whats the first thing a person see's when he or she walks up to a car? The way it looks. They look at the outside they look at the inside and if the look turns them off they walk, and alot of people are walking away from Saturn. Saturn has had mainly an older bread of buyers. Younger people buy Sedans as well as older people and Saturn is not selling younger people the Sedan. And when looking at the sales numbers Saturn is not selling the car to the older people that bought them in the past. Point is I have bought 10 Saturns 3 being SW2's the rest SL2's and I'll not buy the ION Sedan unless they take out the ugly. It's ugly to me and both of my kids.

Last edited by SL2CAM; 11-04-2003 at 10:33 PM..

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Old 11-04-2003, 11:12 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jaseball
I liked my '92 SL2 just fine, but I also love my Ion3 sedan. Then again I don't judge cars based off subjective stuff like interior cloth, center IP's, or whatever else.
What if Saturn used burlap like on the leather S-series door panels? Would you still buy an ION?

I like the center IP. It really is easier to eyeball. It's just the overall interior that is not to like. Yes, it's subjective, but there is a reason why people buy luxury cars and why the VW's sell so well despite their low customer satisfaction. Who wants to shop Kmart if they can shop Target?
Wei

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Old 11-04-2003, 11:34 PM   #10
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Look at it this way. You buy an Ion and come to a site called Saturnfans and 1/4 of the posts are from people saying your new car is ugly, GM is killing Saturn, the center IP stinks, Ion sales are a huge disappointment, blah, blah, blah.

What is the point? To make people who bought the Ion and like it feel bad? To give you some sort of satisfaction in insulting another person's new car? To make Ion or L owners question their purchase?

To 'express yourself,' or 'inform the average person,' about the 'facts?'

Here's the real fact - It does not matter how many Ions or L's or whatever they sell as long as GM supports the brand and has a direction for Saturn.

If they dump the Ion after 5-10 years or sooner, who cares? They already dumped the S series and for good reason.

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Old 11-05-2003, 12:07 AM   #11
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I think if you were to read the posts I made about the ION Sedan before you ever saw one you would know I'm not trying to make you feel bad about the car you bought. The ION Sedan is a huge dissapointment to me. Again, I for one like the center mounted IP.

quote: "To 'express yourself,' or 'inform the average person,'about the facts?'

The fact is the car does not sell. It does not sell nearly as good as the 2002 SL's it replaced. The fact is most people do not like the car. Thats the fact and GM knows it. Saturn knows it also

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Old 11-05-2003, 01:08 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jaseball
Look at it this way. You buy an Ion and come to a site called Saturnfans and 1/4 of the posts are from people saying your new car is ugly, GM is killing Saturn, the center IP stinks, Ion sales are a huge disappointment, blah, blah, blah.
Actually if I ended up here maybe looking for some ION info,I'd probably almost be scared to go and get one the way some people are all doom and gloom on the boards these days.

Anyhow,I like both the sedan and qc. But I tend to favor the sedan more. Especially over the SL's which I never much cared for. Styling isn't something you should get all worked up about,you either like it or you don't. Some people though are very sensitive about their cars,and don't take kindly when people tell 'em their car is 'ugly' and a 'failure'. But everybody can voice their own opinion. I would trade my SC2 in on a Ion in a second and wouldn't bat an eye. To me it's that much better.

Quote:
Originally posted by wei
Yes, it's subjective, but there is a reason why people buy luxury cars and why the VW's sell so well despite their low customer satisfaction. Who wants to shop Kmart if they can shop Target?
Funny you should mention that,when most VWs end up being nothing more then a Kmart car at a Target price. VWs may sell well,but most of those people NEVER come back. They have one of the lowest loyalty ratings in the market. I would never buy one,with all their quality problems and horrible service it's just too risky.

Last edited by germ; 11-05-2003 at 01:21 AM..

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Old 11-05-2003, 01:49 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jaseball
Look at it this way. You buy an Ion and come to a site called Saturnfans and 1/4 of the posts are from people saying your new car is ugly, GM is killing Saturn, the center IP stinks, Ion sales are a huge disappointment, blah, blah, blah.

What is the point? To make people who bought the Ion and like it feel bad? To give you some sort of satisfaction in insulting another person's new car? To make Ion or L owners question their purchase?

To 'express yourself,' or 'inform the average person,' about the 'facts?'

Here's the real fact - It does not matter how many Ions or L's or whatever they sell as long as GM supports the brand and has a direction for Saturn.

If they dump the Ion after 5-10 years or sooner, who cares? They already dumped the S series and for good reason.
You missed the entire purpose of this thread perhaps? ...Saturn sales are down for the month of October..the worst one on record.. The ONLY "new" car available is the ION and the ION quad Coupe...so what is to blame for the poor sales? To qoute an recent aritcle posted in another thread.."Demand for the Ion, introduced last year to replace Saturn's aging first vehicle, the small car S-series, has been especially disappointing."

"Sales have been so lackluster, the assembly line at the Spring Hill, Tenn., plant that builds the Ion will be idled for a second straight week beginning Monday."

We are not trying to make ION purchasers "feel bad" It is NOT a "horrible car" and if you own one and are happy with it, thats great and what really matters to YOU. What matters to the thread and Saturn corp. is that sales have taken a major nose dive, and the ION sales are leading the crash dive.

...
Old Saturns never die, people KILL them, so check your damn oil!
"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." Albert Einstein

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Old 11-05-2003, 07:43 AM   #14
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What probably disappoints Saturn the most about the ION is that it doesn't appear to be bringing in new customers to the brand. They will never get close to their desired sales figures by simply selling IONs to current Saturn owners. Is this a function of marketing, price or the car itself? As a person who likes the ION I feel it involves price and marketing but I think for Saturn's own sake that they need to objectively consider if the car itself is turning off prospective new buyers and if so, why?

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Old 11-05-2003, 07:52 AM   #15
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It's because based on perception, Saturn has ALWAYS been an underdog and considered a 'cheap,' and 'crappy,' car by people who would never give Saturn or most domestics a chance.

It's also because Saturn is bashed by automags for the most part.

Also when someone curious about Saturn comes to a site called Saturnfans and you have negative post after negative post from non-Ion owners moaning the loss of what once was their ideal of Saturn it is hard to imagine someone giving the Ion a chance.

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Old 11-05-2003, 08:13 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jaseball
It's because based on perception, Saturn has ALWAYS been an underdog and considered a 'cheap,' and 'crappy,' car by people who would never give Saturn or most domestics a chance.

It's also because Saturn is bashed by automags for the most part.

Also when someone curious about Saturn comes to a site called Saturnfans and you have negative post after negative post from non-Ion owners moaning the loss of what once was their ideal of Saturn it is hard to imagine someone giving the Ion a chance.
1. GM starved them for $
2. forget auto mags dude

3. you were never a owner of a S back in the day were you? If you were youd know how much things suck now. I mean, do they even do the Saturn Cheer anymore? I never hear it. Do they send out calenders with a pic of you and your car? Homecoming? Its what made a Saturn. I know these things dont make a car reliable, but they are anyway. They are damn bullet proof. The ION is not. Its a cookie cutter cavalier. No denying it.

ive said it a thousand times and ill say a thousand more...THEY SHOULD HAVE LEFT THE S SERIES ALONE! MAYBE, JUST MAYBE if some got smart and offered things like TURBO, AWD, V6 to the current S series and just improved it more, sales would keep goin up. Add the VUE and bam! success. What melonhead said, "Oh, yes, lets team up with Opel." Whaa? That was the day saturn died. I saw that thing on the cover of C&D and almost had a breakdown.

Last edited by brentg; 11-05-2003 at 08:22 AM..

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Old 11-05-2003, 07:58 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jaseball
It's because based on perception, Saturn has ALWAYS been an underdog and considered a 'cheap,' and 'crappy,' car by people who would never give Saturn or most domestics a chance.
The public perception was not always "cheap" and "crappy." In the first few years 1990-93, Saturn got a lot of good publicity and sales boomed. The auto press was actually pretty positive. I remember. I bought my SC in '91. I read all the reviews published back then. The consensus was that GM was on the right track with Saturn.

Among the general public, including import buyers, there was a real curiosity about Saturn back then. GM had a window of opportunity there to really make something out of the brand. They held back, though, choosing to pour money into Oldsmobile for the Alero & Intrigue instead of building on Saturn's initial success. Everything that Saturn is and isn't must be understood in that historical context.

I can understand your frustration with the discussion here, Jaseball, but I don't think anyone here is trying to put you down or make you feel bad about liking the ION. I think people are just being honest about where Saturn is at this particular point in time.

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Old 11-05-2003, 09:41 PM   #18
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Perception, I think, is definetely most of the problem. My sister in law was looking for a 2nd car and we told her about the ION and she said "I heard to stay away from that car".

The bottom line with sales is, bad press = bad sales. Most people (general consumers who ain't knowledgeable about the car industry) will not make up their own minds about what car they want. They will go to Edmunds, Consumer Reports etc etc and let someone else make the bulk of their decision. My inlaws bought an Accord because everybody else told them to. They don't even like the car and it's already having transmission problems. But again, all the other family members and consumer reports told them it was the best mid-sized sedan so they bought one.

I read all the letters and forums on Edmunds as well and it's absolutely scary how many people ask them what car they should buy. I guess people want to make an informed choice, but I could care less what anybody says about a car I like. If I like it, I'll buy it. The only reason I'm not driving a Celica instead of my SC2 is because the insurance on it was 1000 more per year and it was pretty much a coin toss between the 2.

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Old 11-05-2003, 11:45 PM   #19
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The front of the Ion sedan looks like the 00-02 L's little brother. I hate that body colored strip between the lights and the bulbous bumper on both of them. The curent L woud be much nicer with a little smaller headlights. It seems GM goes overboard with muscular body lines and oversized reflectors. I was glad the new Grand Prix looks a little more euro that it's 'let's put shark gills on it' predecessors.

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Old 11-06-2003, 10:09 AM   #20
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Quote:
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Put that Honda 3.5L in the LSeries, and offer an optional 5 speed, and I guarantee sales will go up.
Unfortunately, the reality is that nobody buys manual transmission mid-size cars. Well, that is, nobody except Car and Driver editors and guys like me who actually want to "drive" the car every day.

I've been screaming about a 'tuned' L with a 5 or 6 speed transmission - that would be nice. BUT, being in the business every single day of my life - we would sell about 3 of those a year MAX.

Go and try to find a Honda Accord EX V6 with a manual. I bet there's no more than 2 or 3 in your market area. Try and order one and see how nice the dealership guys treat you - they don't want to be stuck with it on the lot if you back out.

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