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Old 11-20-2020, 01:23 AM   #1
Jeff0172
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Default 2004 vue 3.5l v6 sounds rough whwn starting in cold

Hello i have a question i hope i can get some advice for i
just purchased a 2004 saturn vue 3.5l v6 fwd and it runs
great you cant even hear it run except for when its cold it
will run great intill the next day ill go out in the morning and
start it up and ill hear a loud knocking noise when i start it
up it will knock then rattle till its warm and then when i
switch it from park to reverse it rattles but then goes away i
checked all the fluids and checked the oil when it was cold
and there seems to be to much oil in it but would that
explain whats going on? Its quite when its running it just
starts rough when its cold i know it needs brakes the
breaks are pretty bad there drum in the rear and disk in the
front it also needs some suspension work but im trying to
fix only thing at a time what could it be?
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Old 11-21-2020, 01:07 PM   #2
not4an
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2004 VUE Red Line
Default Re: 2004 vue 3.5l v6 sounds rough whwn starting in cold

over filled oil can be as dangerous as low oil!!! Drain some oil out until the level is to the full mark on the dipstick.
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Old 11-22-2020, 08:04 PM   #3
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Default Re: 2004 vue 3.5l v6 sounds rough whwn starting in cold

Ok i went and had the oil changed to the right level they did the oil but said the oil filter was in good condition im not sure where to start i went today and had the codes ran (because the check engine light was on) and it showed a o2 sensor was bad its the downstream bank 1 sensor the one that comes off the cat i think i have to check but no other codes i started it up this morning it was snowing out and in the low 30s and it did it still im really not sure how to explain it other then it sounds like the starter is loose it sounds like something is bouncing around then it rattles on the passanger side till its warm then its silent you cant even hear it running i dont know if this is normal for saturn vues or what
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Old 11-23-2020, 04:27 PM   #4
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2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 2004 vue 3.5l v6 sounds rough whwn starting in cold

There may be a possibility of the catalytic converter(s) disintegrating internally without any visible indications. If a catcon is suspect, crawling under and listening for marbles emanating from a catcon at idle or banging the catcon by hand or rubber mallet may reveal loose catguts. All catcons are configured as solid porous high temperature ceramic substrates embedded with platinum. Porous bricks for high exhaust flow. As exhaust flows into the porous substrate, catalytic reaction converts exhaust gases into harmless byproducts. Once a catcon falls apart internally, it disintegrates and may block exhaust flow creating the engine version of constipation. Rattling marbles is one description of loose catguts. A severely blocked catcon can be found by removing the upstream O2 sensor and starting up. While loud, either engine power improves immediately or when driving around the neighborhood.

Once past new car warranty, it's anyone's guess when catcons fail. Understanding how its supposed to work along with past evidence of diagnosing/troubleshooting catcon issues within these forums make it easier for anyone willing to try simple diy tests without going to muffler, dealer or repair shops.
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Old 11-24-2020, 10:49 AM   #5
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Default Re: 2004 vue 3.5l v6 sounds rough whwn starting in cold

fdryer thank you i tapped the cat with a rubber mallet and idnt hear anything it is leaking oil but just a few drops after i have it running for a while someone suggested the oil pump? What do you think can a cat still be bad if it seems solid? And for the suggestion of the oil pump wouldnt there be a oil preasure issue? The noise is only on startup
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Old 11-24-2020, 11:34 AM   #6
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Default Re: 2004 vue 3.5l v6 sounds rough whwn starting in cold

This sounds like it's the upper engine mount on the passenger side. When it goes bad it will rattle like crazy until the car warms up.
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Old 11-24-2020, 01:29 PM   #7
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Default Re: 2004 vue 3.5l v6 sounds rough whwn starting in cold

Jeff0172, thank you for trying the diy catcon test. While it may not be the best way to determine if a catcon is damaged, many here were fortunate in finding theirs damaged, creating a constipated engine with renewed power after removing the upstream sensor. If your rubber hammer banging didn't reveal loose catguts in one of your catcons then count yourself lucky (replacing an expensive part). Move on to other things.

Can you video or record the sounds then put it on YouTube or other public site, posting a link for anyone to view or listen? New members are prohibited from posting links (an attempt to thwart spam) but a simple workaround is to type the link address As plain text, add a space here and there so software doesn't recognize it as an address link. Many new members try it successfully. If you do this, before submission, click on the PREVIEW tab to see what your reply will look like to be sure the link is written in plain text and not underlined in blue with the url prefix added. If successful, anyone can copy, delete spaces and hopefully go to the link and view or listen to the mystery.

Personally, if any oil pump fails, this implies loss of oil pressure. Either damage occurs immediately with overheating as one indication or lower oil pressure ruins an engine over a long period of time. Since it pumps the lifeblood of lubricating oil, parts receiving less oil may wear down gradually while the oil pressure light doesn't tell anyone of it as it remains off. Catastrophic oil pump damage is rare with warnings (overheating as less oil circulation results in less removal of heat generated from the combustion process, leaving coolant the only other media to remove waste heat from combustion). Oil pump failure is more coffee table speculation than an actual event. Several things would precede oil pump failure like never changing oil and filter, using either very high or very low viscosity oil, using a witches brew of concoctions for oil, deliberately/inadvertently running with extremely low oil level, etc. Oil pumps use a simple design philosophy with long term reliability as a characteristic of design.
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Last edited by fdryer; 11-24-2020 at 01:35 PM.
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Old 11-24-2020, 06:49 PM   #8
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Default Re: 2004 vue 3.5l v6 sounds rough whwn starting in cold

Ok im uploading a video to youtube now in the video it didnt do it as bad it only does it when its very cold out but ill post the video i have and take another one in the morning because i had to take it to the sos office to transfer the tittle i ordered the o2 sensor so ill be putting it in when it comes but there are no issues with oil preasure or it overheating what so ever i took it on a 130m trip yeaterday to test everything and i had no issues the only when i had the oil changed ( i always do it myself but this time i took it in) he put 5w30 in and i know the stock is 5w20 but after i had it changed i noticed drips on oil on the ground when i shut it off but the jarring noise like a mount is broke only occurs after i let it sit for 10 or so hours so ill let it sit and poat a better video in the morning thank you everyone for the advice i already love this forum
Heres the link:https://youtu.be/WOfpiD9uXv0
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Old 11-24-2020, 09:21 PM   #9
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Default Re: 2004 vue 3.5l v6 sounds rough whwn starting in cold

Apparently the new server/updated software now allows new members to post links. This wasn't so a year ago.

While you are in the only physical position to discern noises in your Vue, recording it inside only muffles those noises to the rest of not there in person. It might have been better to prop your cellphone, go-pro or videocam on a pile of rags without concern for video so initial startup and idling noises are recorded before getting out, picking up the recorder and slowly panning around the engine area for any signs of large engine movement (worn/broken engine mounts?).

I don't hear or see unusual noises but that's just me. Others may have a better idea.

With the 3.5 V6 engine, valves adjustment is needed, periodically. Threads about it are posted within these forums. This may be as simple as valve train noises corrected with valve adjustment.
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Old 11-25-2020, 09:13 PM   #10
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Default Re: 2004 vue 3.5l v6 sounds rough whwn starting in cold

Ok sorry for the late response i took video of the engine running ive narrowed the sound down to the passanger side behind the radio it cannot be heard from outside the car so i took a second video of the sound on the passanger side im not sure if you can hear it in the video but i tried it wont let me upload the video ill try again in a few mins
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Old 11-25-2020, 10:27 PM   #11
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Default Re: 2004 vue 3.5l v6 sounds rough whwn starting in cold

It wouldnt let me post it on here so i had to upload on youtube
Heres the video of the engine running
https://youtu.be/8Lu6H8l2H-M
Heres the video of where i narrowed the sound to it can only be heard in the cabin i checked outside the car and i cannot hear it outside the knock on startup went away after i put the proper amount of oil in but this rattling noise still is there i dont know if something is loose or what
https://youtu.be/L_ftVzxM7d4
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