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Old 06-23-2018, 11:03 AM   #1
Eienring
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Default 2001 SC1 Some OBDII won't complete

I recently got a engine code for EGR valve for my 2001 SC1. I took it to a shop last week and had it fixed.

I've been driving it for 5 days so far after repair and all the monitors are ready except for the EGR,O2S,EVAP and CAT.

I don't know if the test simply did not run or there's something wrong with my car that keeps it from running the tests.

I have a basic OBDII scanner that only tells me which system is ready. Will I need to get a better one to help me understand more on the issue? I have about a month to pass the smog test and I just want to get this over with so I can stop worrying about it.

Would appreciate any advice on this matter.

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Old 06-23-2018, 02:43 PM   #2
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Default Re: 2001 SC1 Some OBDII won't complete

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=122994

A few folks wrote the steps required here

...
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Old 06-23-2018, 03:58 PM   #3
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Default Re: 2001 SC1 Some OBDII won't complete

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Originally Posted by jhonky View Post
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A few folks wrote the steps required here
Thanks for the link. I read through the thread and I'm still not fully sure what could cause the 4 codes not to go ready. I will just have to do a more proper drive cycle tomorrow and hope for the best.

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Old 06-23-2018, 04:04 PM   #4
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Default Re: 2001 SC1 Some OBDII won't complete

The GM drive cycle means nothing and shouldn't be considered the only way to get an engine to meet emissions monitors. If it was then every car would fail from every manufacturer every time anyone reset their check engine light by using the reset feature in readers, pulling a fuse or disconnecting battery negative. Every manual reset would be met with agonizing driving in attempts to comply with procedures written to describe a drive cycle. There would be warnings in owner's manuals and every repair shop would turn away vehicles from 'tampering' and vehicles would never perform emissions self tests. The fact is the drive cycle isn't needed. Every day driving meets requirements for emissions self tests, even when its not performed in the order written in descriptions of a drive cycle. Once a correct repair is made to address one error code, the majority of error codes do not need anyone to reset the error light/memory. The error code simply means the ongoing emissions self tests halted when the error occurred and continues when the error/correct repair is made. The key here is the emissions self tests halted at the error and continues when a repair is correctly made. Ideally, one error with the correct repair should turn off the engine light at the next engine startup. The presumes the error wasn't manually reset. All other parameters that met emissions requirements are in memory so only the error related to a sensor needs to be corrected in order for the OBD II system to sense the corrected repairs and test only the sensor that failed. Once a manual reset is performed, every emissions parameter is erased, forcing the emissions self tests to start grim the beginning, as if the car just left factory assembly. Even under this condition, driving shouldn't take more than a few days to have all emissions parameters met to have a ready status, what state emissions inspectors expect as soon as they plug in state required readers. The engine light may be of but unless all emissions monitors are met during regular driving, inspectors will state the car hasn't met emissions and will not issue a sticker.

1-Was the error manually reset?

2- Is the check engine light ON?

3-Are there any other error codes?

There are only two reasons for a not ready status; an error code remains and isn't addressed or another error without an error code is halting emissions self tests from continuing. GM has never listed any sequence of when each sensor is tested. The monitors that aren't ready must be examined individually to see if each one is not performing correctly. Once the errant sensor is found and corrected by repair or replacement, the emissions self tests continues until all parameters meet requirements to go from not ready too ready status where state inspection will grant a sticker. Continually driving at this point won't make the system pass. An in depth look is needed to determine what went wrong.

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Old 06-23-2018, 05:19 PM   #5
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Default Re: 2001 SC1 Some OBDII won't complete

Where does the temp gauge on the dash normally read?

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Old 06-23-2018, 10:06 PM   #6
Eienring
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Default Re: 2001 SC1 Some OBDII won't complete

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
The GM drive cycle means nothing and shouldn't be considered the only way to get an engine to meet emissions monitors. If it was then every car would fail from every manufacturer every time anyone reset their check engine light by using the reset feature in readers, pulling a fuse or disconnecting battery negative. Every manual reset would be met with agonizing driving in attempts to comply with procedures written to describe a drive cycle. There would be warnings in owner's manuals and every repair shop would turn away vehicles from 'tampering' and vehicles would never perform emissions self tests. The fact is the drive cycle isn't needed. Every day driving meets requirements for emissions self tests, even when its not performed in the order written in descriptions of a drive cycle. Once a correct repair is made to address one error code, the majority of error codes do not need anyone to reset the error light/memory. The error code simply means the ongoing emissions self tests halted when the error occurred and continues when the error/correct repair is made. The key here is the emissions self tests halted at the error and continues when a repair is correctly made. Ideally, one error with the correct repair should turn off the engine light at the next engine startup. The presumes the error wasn't manually reset. All other parameters that met emissions requirements are in memory so only the error related to a sensor needs to be corrected in order for the OBD II system to sense the corrected repairs and test only the sensor that failed. Once a manual reset is performed, every emissions parameter is erased, forcing the emissions self tests to start grim the beginning, as if the car just left factory assembly. Even under this condition, driving shouldn't take more than a few days to have all emissions parameters met to have a ready status, what state emissions inspectors expect as soon as they plug in state required readers. The engine light may be of but unless all emissions monitors are met during regular driving, inspectors will state the car hasn't met emissions and will not issue a sticker.

1-Was the error manually reset?

2- Is the check engine light ON?

3-Are there any other error codes?

There are only two reasons for a not ready status; an error code remains and isn't addressed or another error without an error code is halting emissions self tests from continuing. GM has never listed any sequence of when each sensor is tested. The monitors that aren't ready must be examined individually to see if each one is not performing correctly. Once the errant sensor is found and corrected by repair or replacement, the emissions self tests continues until all parameters meet requirements to go from not ready too ready status where state inspection will grant a sticker. Continually driving at this point won't make the system pass. An in depth look is needed to determine what went wrong.
The mechanic did do a manual reset upon my request because I had a error code on axle ratio that I was told would require a transmission replacement. The error code rarely comes up and I was able to pass my car last time without it coming back up after I reset it.

It has been 5 days since repair and no check engine light so far.

I'm not sure how to properly describe it, but the temp gauge gets up at around the 2nd line during most of the driving.

From what I understand so far, because the code was reset manually, I will need to drive it for more days for it to gather data. I think I was too caught up in seeing and reading about people getting the drive cycle done in less than an hour. I'm going stop worrying about it and give it at least a week to see what happens. The only concern I have is my commute to work is short and does not require highway driving, I wonder if I will need to do that outside of my daily commute.

Thanks for all the help so far. I'm feeling less stressed about it now.

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Old 06-23-2018, 10:39 PM   #7
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Default Re: 2001 SC1 Some OBDII won't complete

There are some members here that tend to be long winded.......... err, one of the things I didn't mention was the possibility of short drives under 10 miles, each way that doesn't let the engine fully reach operating temps. The majority of daily drives are presumed to longer than 10 miles or at least 15 minutes where the engine reaches operating temperatures and emissions self tests are already being performed but not completed. Some highway and local stop and go traffic are part of the drive cycle so short trips with zero highway miles may not allow tests to complete. If you drive only short trips, the easiest solution to meeting all the emissions tests is to schedule a day when you can drive for an hour or so with highway mileage. One of the drive cycles requires some highway driving at constant speed so any highway speeds of 10-20 minutes should be enough with a turn around trip home. Something like an outing somewhere that may take an a half hour or so of driving in each direction for a total round trip of an hour of mixed highway and local traffic. This should allow the emissions self tests to measure every parameter needed to meet each monitor to pass. Monitors are a checklist automatically performed every time the engine is started, car driven. As long as every monitor meets within a range, each monitor passes and the next emission test is performed. This continues non stop so in effect as long as the check engine light remains off and wasn't reset manually, all monitors have passed where a reader will display a ready status - meeting state and federal emissions requirements before visiting any inspection station.

My guess is you'll need a longer drive than the short trips made every day and the reason the monitors haven't passed - too short a drive to test everything. I presume the longer drive will allow all monitors to pass and change the status from not ready to ready. If you have a reader, check the status after a longer drive. Short trip driving doesn't allow all emissions monitoring.

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Old 06-24-2018, 01:06 PM   #8
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Default Re: 2001 SC1 Some OBDII won't complete

how much gas is in the tank? Needs to be between 0.25 and 0.75 full.

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Old 06-24-2018, 01:53 PM   #9
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Default Re: 2001 SC1 Some OBDII won't complete

Fuel level does have to be met for the EVAP test. OP's commute is too short to clear the monitors quickly. It's not having time to get to temp at 1/4. They will need to get it out on the road as fdryer stated. If it still then doesn't get up to temp, there may be a thermostat or ECTS problem that has occurred. ECTS may or may not be brass in a 2001.

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Old 06-24-2018, 02:04 PM   #10
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Default Re: 2001 SC1 Some OBDII won't complete

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eienring View Post
Thanks for the link. I read through the thread and I'm still not fully sure what could cause the 4 codes not to go ready. I will just have to do a more proper drive cycle tomorrow and hope for the best.
Are you located in the Socialist Republic of California?

If there(or any other eco-nazi state), you have to drive like 50-100miles to get those systems to go ready, and yes, it can be quite a pain in the backside because most inspection states use the scanners to rid themselves of people that disconnect the battery right before going in for the inspections(which was what most did with OBD-I systems to cheat the inspections).

I would grab maybe $10-15 bucks of unleaded premium, and just take a long drive with both highway and city driving. The highway driving is needed for the EVAP system, as the EVAP solenoid opens during long periods of cruising at a constant speed. So, you will want a highway with light traffic, ideally.

The city driving will be needed for your EGR system the EGR will open when you first hit the throttle from a dead stop, and moves accordingly from there based on various sensors. It is only closed at idle and WOT.

Since city driving requires start 'n' stop, constantly changing speed, this should get the PCM to complete any self-diagnostics to bring the EGR system to "Ready".

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Old 06-24-2018, 02:06 PM   #11
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Default Re: 2001 SC1 Some OBDII won't complete

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheyne View Post
Fuel level does have to be met for the EVAP test. OP's commute is too short to clear the monitors quickly. It's not having time to get to temp at 1/4. They will need to get it out on the road as fdryer stated. If it still then doesn't get up to temp, there may be a thermostat or ECTS problem that has occurred. ECTS may or may not be brass in a 2001.
Correct. Brass was only used at the factory in 2002. 2001 would still be plastic, if it hasn't been replaced.

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Old 06-30-2018, 01:35 PM   #12
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Default Re: 2001 SC1 Some OBDII won't complete

I've been leaving my gas between 40-70% since my last post as suggested. Today I left my car running with AC on max and window heater on for about 10 minutes to warm it up to 1/4 temp, then drove about 9 miles highway to pick up something for work with no change. I then drove back on the street and now my O2S and CAT is showing as complete. My EVAP and EGR is still showing as not ready but I'm happy to at least see some kind of progress.

I still don't understand how it works, but now I'm hopeful. I really appreciate everyone's advice. I'm planning a day to do a long drive during midnight sometime within the next 2 week just to try to get the rest test to ready. I will report back again if there are anymore changes.

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Old 07-11-2018, 05:51 AM   #13
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Default Re: 2001 SC1 Some OBDII won't complete

So I put my ac on max and window heater on for 10 minutes to warm up my car, drove for about 40 minutes on the highway going between 55-65, took a few exits to try to have it roll down to 20mph with no brakes. I then drove from for about 15 minutes off the highway. My EVAP and EGR still won't go ready.

I was asked for the temperature, but I don't know how I can take a picture while driving because it's against the law to do that here, so I found a picture that shows the same temperature as when I'm driving on the highway.

I'm getting frustrated because I need to complete the DEQ before August and after today I'm totally clueless to what to do beyond continue driving and praying.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg pic.jpg (7.5 KB, 4 views)

Last edited by Eienring; 07-11-2018 at 06:04 AM..

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Old 07-11-2018, 07:46 AM   #14
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Default Re: 2001 SC1 Some OBDII won't complete

For a third gen I think the temperature you've shown is marginally low for full operating temperature (its borderline). If it were a Gen2 then I'd say it is bang on. The gauges are calibrated different for all 3 generations.

Here's what you need to know. Your car came from the factory with a resin tipped ETCS sensor which is known to crack and provide inaccurate temperatures to the computer. If cracked enough then coolant seeps into the electrical connector and fouls it which also causes faulty readings (typically low temp). The new upgraded sensors have brass tips and were installed in all 2002 S Series.

The other typical issue causing low temperature is that the thermostats tend to fail open with age and your car never reaches proper operating temperature as the coolant is flowing through the radiator.

Also, turning your interior heat on draws heat out of the engine as the coolant is flowing through the heater coils and is being cooled. I'm not sure if this is what you meant by "window heater" or not but keep the interior heat off.

So, with all the above in mind. If your operating temperatures are reported low, or are actually low, then the fuel management from the computer is going to run your car rich and you'll get carbon build up (EGR, Manifold, PreCat, Catalytic Converter) and also low fuel mileage.

Start with checking or replacing your ETCS and it's connector. The ETCS is about $15 to replace and is easy. If your connector is fouled then replace it too making sure to solder and shrink wrap the connections. Do not use crimp connectors as they are known to fail for this application.

If you don't see any change on the temperature gauge (higher) then test your thermostat for leakage or just replace it if it is getting up there in age (8+ years). You can test it by feeling the hose from the thermostat to the radiator from a cold engine start. It should not get warm anytime soon as the thermostat should be closed until the engine gets up to operating temperatures (>3 min for sure).

Looking after these 3 points of failure proactively will ensure your car is running as intended.

...
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Old 07-11-2018, 09:44 AM   #15
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Default Re: 2001 SC1 Some OBDII won't complete

Temp is too low in that pic. COULd still have the old plastic ect sensor or most likely just very haven't changed the thermostat in a couple years. I replace my stant every 3 years because it will run cold.

Another clue with that temp is that your idle is a bit high probably close to 900 rpm rather than 850.

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Old 07-11-2018, 10:10 AM   #16
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Default Re: 2001 SC1 Some OBDII won't complete

^ ^ ^ agreed, check:
1) ECTS
2) ECTS connector
3) thermostat
Quote:
Today I left my car running with AC on max and window heater on for about 10 minutes to warm it up to 1/4 temp, then drove about 9 miles highway
That would normally bring you up to 3/8 if both the ECTS and t-stat were working properly, assuming non-winter temps (Midwest winter temps, not CA / FL / AZ, etc., winter temps ). Except, leave the heaters off.


your car's computer (PCM) won't say that the EVAP and EGR tests are ready until the engine has been up to temp.

Either the ECTS, connector, or thermostat aren't working properly. If the ECTS/connector is the problem, engine is getting to temp but the PCM doesn't know it, so does not reset EVAP/EGR as ready

If t-stat is the problem, engine is not getting to temp

Possibly could be all three, too.

If your OBDII reader does not read live data, you can - after another longer drive where your temp should be normal - carefully open the surge tank/reservoir on the passenger fender, and stick a thermometer in the return stream of the thin hose at the back. It should read around 210F if the thermostat is working properly.

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Old 07-11-2018, 11:05 AM   #17
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Default Re: 2001 SC1 Some OBDII won't complete

I just spoke to my mechanic and was told that in my state, I should be able to pass DEQ with EVAP and EGR not being ready, so I will be taking my car to DEQ later today and hope for the best.

I'm looking for a OBDII scanner that would show me more information than just if a monitor is ready or not, are there any recommendations?

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Old 07-11-2018, 11:23 AM   #18
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Default Re: 2001 SC1 Some OBDII won't complete

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eienring View Post
I just spoke to my mechanic and was told that in my state, I should be able to pass DEQ with EVAP and EGR not being ready, so I will be taking my car to DEQ later today and hope for the best.

I'm looking for a OBDII scanner that would show me more information than just if a monitor is ready or not, are there any recommendations?
In California you can have the Evap monitor outstanding. None other.

if I don't want to pull out my Tech 2 (it takes time to start up etc). I use this $14 scanner. Does a great job with codes and monitors..

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

-Robert

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Old 07-11-2018, 02:00 PM   #19
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Default Re: 2001 SC1 Some OBDII won't complete

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I just spoke to my mechanic and was told that in my state, I should be able to pass DEQ with EVAP and EGR not being ready, so I will be taking my car to DEQ later today and hope for the best.
I'd still not heed our advice regarding the engine temp readings. Running your car rich will lead to problems down the line. The savings in fuel alone will pay for the parts.

...
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Old 07-11-2018, 02:03 PM   #20
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Default Re: 2001 SC1 Some OBDII won't complete

Just got back from DEQ test, and was told at least one of the two needs to be ready in order to pass the test.

After I left the test station my check engine light came up with code P1404, and it showed my EGR is now ready. Basic googling tells me that it has something to do with the EGR sensor.

I've scheduled to have the mechanic look at it tomorrow morning, but I would appreciate if someone can explain to me what the code means and what could have caused it?

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