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Old 06-19-2018, 07:09 PM   #1
duece9s
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2006 ION-2 Sedan
Default inner rotor wear

is this normal inner rotor wear? outer rotor wear area looks normal. dont know history of the brakes.
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Old 06-19-2018, 10:47 PM   #2
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Default Re: inner rotor wear

Short answer: no.

You should definitely take the caliper off to inspect the pads. If you replace the pads, replace both rotors too.

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Old 08-16-2018, 02:11 PM   #3
bingnune
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Default Re: inner rotor wear

Quote:
Originally Posted by ruley73 View Post
replace both rotors too.
I have the exact problem with my 03 Ion 2 with 84,000. Haven't got a clue on the history of the vehicle either (even though I bought it from a friend!) I usually get an answer like, "Oh yeah, I remember that... the roof does leak", "...you do have to reach under the steering wheel to get the key out sometimes", "...the electrical is crazy and you never know if it will unlock the doors or not" or whatever may come up. I never get the information in advance of a problem.

Anyway, my questions are about replacing the rotors:

Is there any real difference between brands like Raybestos, DuraGo, or ACDelco?
I know what their marketing materials say but in practicality, is there a brand I should avoid?
Is more expensive worth the cost or am I just paying for a name?
Does the Rust Protection Coating really do what it purports?

Which is better in the opinions of the masses?

And GO... (Thanks in advance!)

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Old 08-16-2018, 03:15 PM   #4
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Default Re: inner rotor wear

bingnune, many members neglect to reply and close out their threads, leaving others to wonder............

The fact remains, the reason of uneven rotor wear - the free floating caliper isn't floating on its caliper pins and failure to service brakes.

Google how disc brakes work and you're likely to learn why caliper pins are greased.

Buy whatever you can afford. Hype drives sales. Unless you find third party controlled tests using the same vehicle, tires and other factors that can skew results, hearsay by seat of the pants testimonials tends to leave out worn out brakes before new ones were installed. The worn out brakes are not a basis to determine why new brakes work better when suddenly all the servicing is done to ensure new brakes wear in. No one asks if the old brakes were serviced prior to replacing parts so comparisons are false. Real brake tests would be comparing new rotors to new rotors, new brake pads to other new brake pads on clean new rotors, etc.. If you don't find this info then its all hearsay to upsell.

Last edited by fdryer; 08-16-2018 at 03:26 PM..

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Old 08-16-2018, 07:29 PM   #5
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Default Re: inner rotor wear

Just for clarification toward the initial discussion of this post, I read something from a general search (as recommended above) about greasing the pins, and this is what I found that someone mentioned:

"Some slide pins have rubber components, i.e. a seal in the groove. If you have those, make sure you use appropriate 'rubber-friendly' lubricant. Those seals designed to allow air through but prevent the pin from wobbling or vibrating in the caliper. If the wrong grease is used, it can cause the seal to swell and turn the pin-caliper into a piston-cylinder arrangement, so when caliper heats up the trapped air will push on the pin and gently press one of the pads into the disk. It will not feel any different while driving, but over time one of the pads will wear substantially more than the other, as it will constantly rub against the disk." Dimitri B (from StackExchange user 3467)

This explanation seems plausible but I thought I would check to see if anyone had a different theory as to the cause of the one-sided worn rotors... I'm thinking that I will try Dielectric Grease on the caliper pins when I install my rotors and brake shoes.

It's important to me to make sure I get it figured out. We just had to replace a transmission in a car because my girlfriend just kept driving with BOTH the front disc brakes locked up without knowing why there was so much drag... I don't want to repeat that!

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Old 08-16-2018, 08:32 PM   #6
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Default Re: inner rotor wear

Your source of information is.................wrong, period. Again, unless you can separate hearsay from facts and you're interested in diy repairs, you should be aware of misinformation. We're already knee deep in misinformation about politics and how our President is dividing the nation so its not unusual to find misinformation that may seem plausible to anyone completely unfamiliar with brake systems. Beware of following misinformation and believing it when you're fully unaware of determining truth from fiction. Caliper pins do not move, period.

The basic disc brake uses free floating calipers riding on two caliper pins. When you find this info from How Stuff Works or other reputable sites, you'll learn how calipers slide on pins for self alignment to allow even brake pad wear to prevent what you have, uneven wear. Uneven wear; one brake pad wears more than the other and rotor wear shows the same results. The rubber boots are to prevent dirt from getting caught between pins and caliper to allow free movement. Free movement is less than a quarter of an inch of travel on properly serviced disc brakes.

You are already making a serious mistake of using dielectric grease. Unless you buy high temperature brake grease made for brakes, you are already heading down the path of repeating mistakes made by others assuming any grease will do when you're not completely informed. Do you know brake temperatures can exceed 800F? Can dielectric grease work in high temperature braking? Do you you why your disc brake are wearing unevenly? Are you open to learning more than you thought you know about a topic?

Brakes are not diy friendly as you risk injury to yourself and to others if you make serious mistakes in judgement. Not only are brake repair shops expensive, they assume all risks and are trained to service brakes correctly and not take short cuts when insurance and liability issues are in the back of their minds, hence the high cost of brake repairs. You're paying for expertise, not someone with zero knowledge and zero skills.

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Old 08-16-2018, 10:55 PM   #7
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Default Re: inner rotor wear

brake change was pretty easy, this is the only picture i have of the pads, most of them still had plently of life left, but one rotor had bad grooves. the pad shown appeared to be wearing pretty flatly from top to bottom, although you can see the wear pattern reflected on the pad from the rotor, which some height difference.


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Old 08-17-2018, 12:48 AM   #8
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Default Re: inner rotor wear

didnt have time to read sall other answers so sorry if this was already given. this seems like a pretty straight foward case, the drift pins/slide pins are siezed or not moving well as they should. these give even grip to both sides of rotor during braking. If pins are siezed ussually one pad will wear out faster than the other. good luck, easy fix

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Old 08-18-2018, 01:52 AM   #9
bingnune
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Default Re: inner rotor wear

Normally, I would ignore this type of response, but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Your source of information is.................wrong, period. Again, unless you can separate hearsay from facts and you're interested in diy repairs, you should be aware of misinformation.


This is the very reason I'm here in the forum, to learn what the "misinformation" is so I don't do something wrong, not particularly to hear about anyone's political leanings - one way or another - when all I'm trying to do is to get information about working on my car. I also don't remember saying that what I posted was fact. "Plausible" was the word I used, followed by "...but I thought I would check to see if anyone had a different theory as to the cause of the one-sided worn rotors..."

Throwing around your views on the political climate of the country does nothing but stroke your ego. Lumping me, someone you know nothing about, into a group of people you don't like for whatever reason just shows that you need to stroke it. I could say a few things about your pompous attitude and how it bears a striking resemblance to the very people you are complaining about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Beware of following misinformation and believing it when you're fully unaware of determining truth from fiction. Caliper pins do not move, period.


There is no reason to get your panties in a bunch and decide that I am unable to "separate hearsay from facts" and am "fully unaware of determining truth from fiction" based on a single post in which I asked for guidance. To clarify, I did not think at any point that caliper pins move, but I may have used a quote from a person that sounded like that to you. Not everyone is as eloquent as you seem to be in order to convey a thought.

I read his information as saying that the calipers were not moving correctly over the pins "pushing on the pin" because of the grease used, and then the rest of his blah, blah, blah. According to my understanding, that would lead to the caliper getting stuck or locked up with the piston engaged. This condition would cause the inner brake pad to ride the rotor for an extended period of time, whether full-time or intermittently, and end up causing the metal from the shoe to come into contact much earlier on the inside than the outside of the rotor.

Did I explain that properly? I am not "completely unfamiliar" with the very basics of the disc brake system. Maybe I didn't pick the wisest guy to quote, but it was posed as a question about the idea he was presenting, and not a statement of undying solidarity with the concept.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
When you find this info from How Stuff Works or other reputable sites...


As a matter of fact, that was the first website that I went to (How Stuff Works) and read up about how brake systems work, as you suggested. I also went further and researched other sites as well as the best way to provide lubrication to parts of the brake system. I went from the website I felt I would receive the most reputable advice (here) to HSW and followed a rabbit trail of different sites, all the way to those with 'supposed mechanics' answering questions. I knew that the information may not have been accurate, and that's why I came right back here to find out what the "smart guys" know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
You are already making a serious mistake of using dielectric grease.


I actually had put the brakes on that idea before I started working on the brakes. After reading more on the can of Dielectric Grease which said, "if exposed to extreme heat or hot surfaces, vapors may decompose to harmful or fatal corrosive gases such as hydrogen fluoride" I figured that even though the pins are probably not the hot spot for the brakes (not completely unaware...) that it still might not be a good idea being that close to the extreme heat that comes off of the pads and rotor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Do you know brake temperatures can exceed 800F? Can dielectric grease work in high temperature braking? Do you you why your disc brake are wearing unevenly?


No, I wasn't aware that the temps could get higher than 800F. I guess I made a good call with what I said just before this. The reason I considered that grease in the first place was that the label also says that it does work "in adverse conditions such as rain, fog, salt spray and temperature extremes." In the instructions, it mentions letting "hot surfaces cool before using this product." I jumped the gun when I posted I thought I was considering that route. I'm not sure if it would work well on the caliper pins or not, but I had decided that the risk of it breaking down into a corrosive gas wasn't something I wanted eating away at my brake parts and my family's security.

As far as why the brakes are wearing unevenly, I believe I said that I didn't know the history of my car's maintenance from the start. I discovered the cause as I researched to be what I think is a sticking caliper piston, probably due to lack of maintenance. I explained how I think that works above, but please feel free to correct me if I was wrong. But, you did say, "the reason of uneven rotor wear - the free floating caliper isn't floating on its caliper pins and failure to service brakes." That makes it sound like I may actually have it right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Are you open to learning more than you thought you know about a topic?
Brakes are not diy friendly as you risk injury to yourself and to others if you make serious mistakes in judgement. You're paying for expertise, not someone with zero knowledge and zero skills.


I never claimed to know everything or much at all about brakes. I don't think I made claims of any kind. However, I know I never said I had zero knowledge and zero skills, nor did I say I was blindly following "misinformation that may seem plausible to anyone completely unfamiliar with brake systems."

Personally, I love to learn new things, but I don't need to be treated like I'm devoid of all thinking capabilities while someone is "teaching" or helping me learn. I respect the knowledge you have and would like to be able to learn from it, but I don't need your disrespect and the dismissive way you talked down to me.

Are you open to actually hearing people out before you lambast them with your self-righteous indignation? Being passive/aggressive (actually, you were antagonistic to me upon our first interactions) toward any person seeking information is extremely off-putting. However, in many of your responses on this forum, I see that it is your pattern. Even as a new user, I can tell you know about the work you are explaining to others. You apparently have a lot of knowledge and can be a great resource to those who come looking for help. I also see you get extremely frustrated very quickly with people asking questions, and you don't seem to know how to control your emotional responses.

I know how important it is to get as much information as possible while working on brakes, or any component of a vehicle that will transport my most precious cargo. That is the very reason why I came to a place like this before I started working on the car. As a matter of fact, I had asked about the differences between different brands of rotors, the metallurgy, and rust coating protection. The answer I received for those questions was a bit confusing, but I took it in stride and hoping that maybe someone that had first-hand knowledge would also chime in, but the conversation went a different direction.

To be able to find people with far more knowledge than I, who are willing to share their expertise, is priceless. I certainly don't take it lightly. I think that could be evidenced by me researching as you suggested rather than just throwing all kinds of questions at you, step by step.

I have seen some of your conversations in topics I was reading about, and I have seen people that may have frustrated you by just asking the same questions without actually looking up the detailed information you provided. I have seen you be passive/aggressive to plenty of users. Of course, after 40,000 replies, I guess you are tired. I want to be able to read your replies and get quality information without wondering when you are going to go on a tangent for no apparent reason.

So, sir, I ask you to please hold your assumptions and judgments about me, my ability to tell truth from fiction or hearsay from facts, and my level of knowledge and skills. If that is something you cannot do, I would prefer you hold your commentary to yourself when I ask a question. If I have to do without your experience and knowledge so that I am not treated like a dimwit or relegated to a political party or mindset of people, that is a cost I will have to pay. You don't know me and your impressions are completely incorrect.

I hope that you will take to heart the point I am trying to make. Keeping your peace when you feel like you need to attack someone will go a long way in keeping this forum a valuable resource. People can benefit from your experience and expertise, but you turn people away when you are passive/aggressive in your replies. I hope you can be introspective enough to see this.

With due respect,

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--> I'm also issuing a SARCASM warning...

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Old 08-18-2018, 02:19 PM   #10
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Default Re: inner rotor wear

I used political news as an analogy to the misinformation that's everywhere, not to ruffle feathers. Passive/aggressive isn't part of my vocabulary. That's your opinion. I've tried being curt with many ignoring suggestions only to find out ignoring suggestions ends up with members making expensive mistakes. Your reasoning for dielectric grease and lengthy explanations shows unfamiliarity with brake service information. You're willingness to acknowledge searching other sources of information is rare since you'll find hardly anyone acknowledging search suggestions. I'm open to discussions but tend not to when reading misinformation and simply state so. Familiarity with topics let's me. Not being an expert on many things allows open debates I stay away from. There are times I feel compelled to reply strongly, not to be holier than thou but to either disagree and make a statement or point elsewhere to give anyone the freedom to agree to my statements or not. I share my familiarity with topics and yes, I've ruffled a few feathers. Who doesn't? There's one very long thread one member insisted knowledge about and I continued discussions when the majority of long threads tend to be distractions from many members pointing in several directions so I discontinue replying. The thread ended with several incorrect suggestions that are costly until it was revealed an incorrect amount of fluid was installed resulting in poor operations. This member never revealed his guesstimate of fluid amounts that resulted in a poor repair. An expensive repair and hard lesson that hasn't ended yet. All I do is repeat the mantra of tried and true methods of maintenance while many stray from proper procedures. Even I make mistakes and own up to it when its pointed out. Mistakes I make are in information that hasn't cost anyone money or time.

Brake service is brake service. Diyers make the most mistakes from misinformation and sharing it to create repeated mistakes with other diyers. I appreciate your reply while disagreeing on a few points but that's the way of open forums. Your thread hits home in more ways than one and I replied. Since you disagree about my overall replies, I'll end my discussions here.

Last edited by fdryer; 08-18-2018 at 02:26 PM..

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