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Old 05-23-2018, 07:50 AM   #1
onlinebiker
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Default Top or bottom?

Pulling engines, that is.

I asked a while back which was easier - removing an engine from the top, or like the factory - from the bottom by pulling the whole drive train.

There consensus was out the top.

I just finished pulling one out the top - for the first time - and I have to say - these guys know their stuff.

It was definitely easier removing it from the top.

But going back in?? It sure looks like a nightmare to me.


I guess if I am going to try that I need to get a good load leveler for my cherry picker.

That will have to be down the line - the car I' m putting this engine in needs a bit of work on the subframe so I will be dropping the whole subframe - then swapping engines and replacing from the bottom.

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97 SL2 - cooked engine
98 SC2 - rusty frame. Donor engine for above SL2

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Old 05-23-2018, 08:07 AM   #2
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1998 SC2
Default Re: Top or bottom?

Put it back in the same way you took it out. Be aware it is very easy to break the master cylinder reservoir with the intake side cam cover corner when just starting back in. Your attention will be on getting the exhaust flange over the lower block flange and you will neglect watching the back side.

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Old 05-23-2018, 09:00 AM   #3
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2001 SC2
Default Re: Top or bottom?

Only pull the sub-frame if you're replacing it with a new-to-you one, otherwise it's not worth the hassle/risk of dealing with the subframe bolts. If you don't live in the rust belt you don't understand how much of a PITA those freaking things are and don't have to worry.

Load-levelers are cheap, this one is only about $25 shipped: https://www.amazon.com/Torin-Engine-.../dp/B004PX4YCI

If you got the engine/transmission out without the leveler (HOW?? lol) then you shouldn't need it for going back in, but it'll make the job far far easier. Just watch for sensors & stuff catching on the firewall lip and the exhaust manifold catching on the radiator support. You'll need to man-handle the engine around some to get the PS pump back where it belongs while you're dropping it back in and it's easier to get the downpipe between the engine and subframe brace before the engine is fully dropped in.

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Old 05-23-2018, 09:35 AM   #4
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2002 SC2
1998 SL2
Default Re: Top or bottom?

Is there anything you can do ahead of time (e.g., tape bits of cardboard around the engine, or around brake master) that would help with the snagging, or to protect bits?

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Old 05-23-2018, 09:58 AM   #5
onlinebiker
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Default Re: Top or bottom?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fetchitfido View Post
Only pull the sub-frame if you're replacing it with a new-to-you one, otherwise it's not worth the hassle/risk of dealing with the subframe bolts. If you don't live in the rust belt you don't understand how much of a PITA those freaking things are and don't have to worry.

Load-levelers are cheap, this one is only about $25 shipped: https://www.amazon.com/Torin-Engine-.../dp/B004PX4YCI

If you got the engine/transmission out without the leveler (HOW?? lol) then you shouldn't need it for going back in, but it'll make the job far far easier. Just watch for sensors & stuff catching on the firewall lip and the exhaust manifold catching on the radiator support. You'll need to man-handle the engine around some to get the PS pump back where it belongs while you're dropping it back in and it's easier to get the downpipe between the engine and subframe brace before the engine is fully dropped in.
I have pulled many engines out the bottom - so yeah - I do know the subframe mounting bolts can be a pain. The thing I have learned is soaking the snot out of the bolts ( rear are easy - front a bit trickier) with PB Blaster for a few days ahead of time.

And take your time with a 1/2 inch breaker bar - no impact wrenches- and work the bolt back and forth with more penetrant.

If you hurry - it might take much, much longer.

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93 SC2
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96 SC2
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97 SC2
02 SC2
02 SL2

parts
2 94 SC2 parted out
2 96 SC2
97 SL2 - cooked engine
98 SC2 - rusty frame. Donor engine for above SL2

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Old 05-30-2018, 02:08 PM   #6
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Default Re: Top or bottom?

It took two days - and the better part of a can of PB Blaster - but the bolts came out - of a 20 year old Michigan car - quite easily.


No substitute for patience.


...
driveable

92 SC2
93 SC2
95 SC2
96 SC2
97 SL2
97 SC2
02 SC2
02 SL2

parts
2 94 SC2 parted out
2 96 SC2
97 SL2 - cooked engine
98 SC2 - rusty frame. Donor engine for above SL2

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Old 05-30-2018, 02:27 PM   #7
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1999 SL2
Default Re: Top or bottom?

I was just reading a service manual that recommended removing the engine cradle and all the trimmings from the bottom. It made me wonder if it were possible to pull it through the top. Removing my engine isn't necessary and I hope that it never will be. This car has been in southern Nevada its whole life, but onlinebiker's post gave me flashbacks from when I was a in Ohio. Hot humid summers caused constant sweating, but having dirty, salty, ice water from the Ohio roads raining down on me from the melting fender-bergs was messed up. I quit my mechanics job and joined the Navy in 1988.

I broke two bolts that were holding the EGR down on my dad's 1991 GMC Sonoma back in 2013, but they were incredibly brittle. I put less than 10 foot pounds on these things. They were about 1/4"-28 Grade 5 bolts.

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Old 06-02-2018, 12:19 AM   #8
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2005 VUE 3.5L
1994 SL2
Default Re: Top or bottom?

If this is on the SW2 out the bottom and ditch that auto trans :P (I saw it on GR/Holland CL and glad it went to a good home , would of loved it but need to move some cars first)

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Old 06-02-2018, 01:43 AM   #9
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1999 SC2
Default Re: Top or bottom?

Tip for those, well any, rusty bolts, work back and forth, and keep applying acid base oil (IE; PB Blaster).

Or use an impact, following above advise if the fastener starts torquing.

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Old 06-05-2018, 08:57 PM   #10
Tom Walsh
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2002 L-Series 2.2L Sedan
Default Re: Top or bottom?

The Vue we just did a clutch/slave cylinder on, had three of the four carriage bolts so rusted It was like They were welded. I just torched them out. there wasn't any way to get a wrench in there to hold them any way. Those little pockets seem way smaller than the S ones. I used a metric nut and a flare wrench to torque them. So I could retrieve my wrench after. I think it was a 22mm.

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Old 06-07-2018, 11:34 PM   #11
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Default Re: Top or bottom?

Quote:
Originally Posted by alordofchaos View Post
Is there anything you can do ahead of time (e.g., tape bits of cardboard around the engine, or around brake master) that would help with the snagging, or to protect bits?
Can you pull the engine out and leave the manual trans unbolted still the cradle or do you have to pull engine and trans as a unit?

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