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Old 04-24-2018, 07:02 PM   #1
Catch-TwentyTwo
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Default AC Refuses to be fixed

During all of the repairs the ac O-ring on the high pressure side failed, I put in new O-ring and recharged it following ALL directions, yet it still blows hot. Couldn't find any leaks. The gauge on the ac pro says it is charged.... summer ended, then winter never came and now the heat from hell is starting....

Parts already replaced

Radiator
Radiator hoses upper and lower
Transmission hoses to radiator
Thermostat X2
Coolant reservoir
Reservoir Cap X3
Engine coolant temperature sensor
Water Pump
Cooling fan motor
Battery
Starter
Trans Valve Body
....

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Old 04-24-2018, 07:20 PM   #2
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Default Re: AC Refuses to be fixed

The parts you replaced don't directly have to do with the AC actually working. After you repaired the leak, did you pull a vacuum on the system and recharge or just add refrigerant?

Also, do you hear the AC clutch engage on the compressor when the AC is turned on? You should hear a pretty loud click over the engine idle.

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Old 04-24-2018, 08:12 PM   #3
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Default Re: AC Refuses to be fixed

First mistake is assuming AC Pro will fix ac problems. Find any reputable ac repair shop using ac fix-in-a-can. Sealer is used and doesn't belong in ac systems. Quote any vehicle manufacturer using sealer - you won't find any. And dealers as well as honest repair shops will not use sealer in any repair. The profit to be made is greater with actual replacement of damaged (and sometimes undamaged) parts compared to "OK, we'll fixit and your car will be ready in about an hour but we need the car for several hours" when dishonest shops may simply use AC Pro or lower cost alternatives with similar sealer and over bill unsuspecting customers. In reality, ac shops do not want fixit in a can as this can basically guarantee a customer returning for the same problem, loss of cooling. Replacing compressors and other minor parts are the mantra of most shops since this is the largest profit to be made.The only reason profits are large is due to the majority of vehicle owners not knowledgeable about refrigeration, diagnosing, troubleshooting and repairs to restore ac back to factory condition. All ac repairs are always aimed at restoring ac function back to factory condition.

As it is, you used AC Pro with zero restoration of cooling. That's testament against using fixit in a can. Another thing most shops may not mention until work begins - if they're expensive evacuation equipment detects foreign gases or sealer, contamination of their equipment will be brought up and add to repair costs, over and above a repair if sealer or foreign refrigerant wasn't used.

Can you elaborate on "following ALL directions"? Correct ac repairs requires finding the source of the leak, replacing what's damaged, using new seals where necessary, replenishing any loss of refrigerant oil, performing an evacuation and final leak test with gauges before refilling with plain r134a. There are no short cuts to correct ac repairs. This is one area where the phrase "Do it right or don't do it at all" applies. AC repairs are unforgiving of mistakes.

What remains is whether or not AC Pro caused this problem or added to an existing problem that wasn't determined...........

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Old 04-26-2018, 04:12 PM   #4
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Default Re: AC Refuses to be fixed

First of all, everything you replaced has little to do with the AC system. AC systems are actually pretty simple, I recommend checking out a diagram.

I'm going to start with the stupid stuff, not to insult your intelligence. But, is the AC actually turned on? The A/C or frost icon should be on, and the thermostat should be set to the coolest blue temperature.

When you fill your car with refrigerant, the A/C needs to be running on max or that stuff's not going to cycle through your system at all, in fact, it can cause some serious issues with your compressor. So make sure the cars running when you do it. Note; It's best to vacuum the system before filling; you can get a vacuum + hoses from Harbor Freight for $160~ with coupons which pays for itself in the long run.

It takes about 24~ ounces of refrigerant in your typical car. When filling, make sure to constantly shake the can as well as turn it sideways and 12 o'clock. Rev the engine in between to make sure it cycles through the system. If you don't put enough coolant in the system, the clutch on the compressor will not activate and you will have hot air.

If you've done all of the above and it's still blowing hot air, then you must have a very very serious leak somewhere. It sounds to me like the AC needs to be A) turned on and 2) have enough refrigerant in the system for the clutch to activate.

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Old 05-07-2018, 06:42 PM   #5
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Default Re: AC Refuses to be fixed

"The parts you replaced don't directly have to do with the AC actually working."
.
.
I listed everything we have done to be proactive as we could have unintentionally messed something up. Even though while working on the car on an unrelated system we heard the hissing sound we saw the gasket on the high pressure line at the compressor/hose connection, we tried to stop the leak but it didn't work. I bought replacement gasket tightened it down, and added the refrigerant.

=================================================" Also, do you hear the AC clutch engage on the compressor when the AC is turned on?"
.
.
Yes the AC Clutch engages when the ac is turned on.

================================================
"Can you elaborate on "following ALL directions"? Correct ac repairs requires finding the source of the leak, replacing what's damaged, using new seals where necessary, replenishing any loss of refrigerant oil, performing an evacuation and final leak test with gauges before refilling with plain r134a. There are no short cuts to correct ac repairs. This is one area where the phrase "Do it right or don't do it at all" applies. AC repairs are unforgiving of mistakes."
.
.
Followed the directions on the can.
Source of leak, the gasket between the compressor and high pressure line blew
Replaced the gasket. Used the red vacuum from Harbor Freight, then added the refrigerant with the car ON a/c ON set to the COLDEST temp and clutch engaged. Car still has the same "psi" now, as it had after using the A/C Pro, so no leaks.

================================================
"I'm going to start with the stupid stuff, not to insult your intelligence. But, is the AC actually turned on? The A/C or frost icon should be on, and the thermostat should be set to the coolest blue temperature. "
.
.
No insult, you are being nice trying to help me, no worries.
A/C on full blast set at coldest temp and the clutch engaged.

=================================================
"If you've done all of the above and it's still blowing hot air, then you must have a very very serious leak somewhere. It sounds to me like the AC needs to be A) turned on and 2) have enough refrigerant in the system for the clutch to activate."
.
.
No leak as it has the same pressure it did when we put the refrigerant in. A/C on, clutch activates...

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Old 05-07-2018, 07:04 PM   #6
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Default Re: AC Refuses to be fixed

Funny! I live in Vegas also and if you my post in "General" you well see I'm having the exact same problems?

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Old 05-07-2018, 07:22 PM   #7
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Default Re: AC Refuses to be fixed

Catch-TwentyTwo, your first major mistake is using AC Pro. No sealer in the world will fix your broken system. The fact that you used it in hopes of fixing a leak didn't work otherwise you wouldn't be back with more questions on why it isn't working.

Once sealer is used, you accept all responsibility for damages from sealer use; it seals leaks and many passages in a system including those in compressors. Unless you can prove otherwise, this system is considered contaminated by most repair shops as they're willing to point out a contaminated system requires breaking down a system, flushing out all contamination, replacing contaminated parts and billing more for this type for repair. The suggestion to buy a uv blacklight falls on many deaf ears as the first step in diy repairs. Finding the source of the leak that causes 98% of all vehicle ac system failures seems too difficult compared to buying repairs on a can. In your case, as in many, it doesn't work and may have created a costlier repair compared to finding and replacing parts that caused the leak an using only plain r134a, make up refrigerant oil and any seals required when fittings are opened.

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Old 05-07-2018, 07:28 PM   #8
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Default Re: AC Refuses to be fixed

I have little in the way of A/C skills, but am pretty sure that this is all just guessing until the OP posts high/low pressures along with ambient temp/humidity and temp of cooled air.

There are four major components of the refrigeration cycle: compressor, condenser, expansion valve/orifice, and evaporator. The expansion device is rarely talked about in these "A/C fix" threads, and I don't think it has been mentioned here.

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Old 05-07-2018, 07:42 PM   #9
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Default Re: AC Refuses to be fixed

^ Thermal expansion valves are not failure prone parts simply because its never been proven to fail despite hearsay and those willing to replace it when the majority of ac failures are about leaks that disables compressor operation to save it against destroying itself if the pressure switch wasn't installed to detect loss of refrigerant (leak). The first thing in the majority of ac failures is the compressor stops running, due to the pressure switch detecting lower operating pressures that can lead to eventual compressor damage so the pressure switch sends a signal to the pcm to disable compressor power. The pressure switch is replaced along with compressor while avoiding the obvious, loss of refrigerant from a leak that's detected in the beginning. Find and fix the leak, not with sealer, and restoring ac function back to factory condition is almost guaranteed as long as correct repair procedures are followed.

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Old 05-07-2018, 07:49 PM   #10
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Default Re: AC Refuses to be fixed

.
.

Used the red vacuum from Harbor Freight,

Is that the air pressure operated one?

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Old 05-08-2018, 01:48 AM   #11
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Default Re: AC Refuses to be fixed

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Catch-TwentyTwo, your first major mistake is using AC Pro. No sealer in the world will fix your broken system. The fact that you used it in hopes of fixing a leak didn't work otherwise you wouldn't be back with more questions on why it isn't working.
Dude I don't get why you are so pissed at me. Maybe the other thread?

IF you read instead of jumped on my post to lecture, you would have understood that the LEAK was from a gasket, actually it was a BLOW OUT, NOT a leak... You would have read that I REPLACED the gasket, and used the A/C Pro to recharge the refrigerant, not to seal a leak...

Maybe I should have blindly did your "fix" of replacing the (at the time) working fan... Maybe then I wouldn't have a pissed off person trying to talk down to me. It doesn't work.

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Old 05-08-2018, 02:09 AM   #12
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Default Re: AC Refuses to be fixed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Rock View Post
.
.

Used the red vacuum from Harbor Freight,

Is that the air pressure operated one?
yes... let me guess I got suckered into buying a worthless tool that doesn't work....... argh

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Old 05-08-2018, 08:10 AM   #13
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Default Re: AC Refuses to be fixed

Quote:
Originally Posted by billr View Post
. . . that this is all just guessing until the OP posts high/low pressures along with ambient temp/humidity . . . .
I think this is our starting point.

OP, you can use the free loaner tool program at your FLAPS to get a full set of gauges. Check the high and low pressures, as well as ambient temp/humidity. I usually do this right after the news because I hate listening to weather channels

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Old 05-08-2018, 12:05 PM   #14
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Default Re: AC Refuses to be fixed

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Originally Posted by Catch-TwentyTwo View Post
Dude I don't get why you are so pissed at me. Maybe the other thread?

IF you read instead of jumped on my post to lecture, you would have understood that the LEAK was from a gasket, actually it was a BLOW OUT, NOT a leak... You would have read that I REPLACED the gasket, and used the A/C Pro to recharge the refrigerant, not to seal a leak...

Maybe I should have blindly did your "fix" of replacing the (at the time) working fan... Maybe then I wouldn't have a pissed off person trying to talk down to me. It doesn't work.
If you think I'm pissed at you, you're mistaken. You're also mistaken about AC Pro. It's both refrigerant and sealer. Read labeling. And using a cheap pneumatic vacuum pump is another mistake - very few have success using it because it doesn't evacuate any system to 29.99 in hg so it cannot remove all the air and moisture in a repaired system. Air and moisture contaminates repairs to contribute additional problems.

Ask any reputable dealer or repair shop if they use sealer in their repairs to ac systems. I'll give you a hint - the ones that make money don't.

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Old 05-08-2018, 12:33 PM   #15
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Default Re: AC Refuses to be fixed

All their 134A products say they
“Contains leak sealer to seal common A/C leaks in rubber hoses, gaskets, and O-rings”
I would never use it.



http://acprocold.com/products/
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ACPro.JPG (111.0 KB, 69 views)

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Old 05-08-2018, 02:04 PM   #16
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Default Re: AC Refuses to be fixed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_b View Post
All their 134A products say they
“Contains leak sealer to seal common A/C leaks in rubber hoses, gaskets, and O-rings”
I would never use it.



http://acprocold.com/products/
I didn't say there was no "leak sealer" in the product. What I was saying is that my A/C doesn't have a leak. it was the tiny gasket that blew out, and was replaced so no leaks ever. I do appreciate your post showing the product.

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Old 05-08-2018, 02:44 PM   #17
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Default Re: AC Refuses to be fixed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catch-TwentyTwo View Post
I didn't say there was no "leak sealer" in the product. What I was saying is that my A/C doesn't have a leak.
I think what they are saying is that now there is an X-factor in your system - sealer - that shouldn't be there and no one can say for sure what it is doing.

Perhaps it is flowing along, causing no trouble at all. Perhaps this sealer is clogging up a hose somewhere.

You've only told us there is proper pressure on the low side, where presumably you connect the AC Pro gauge to.

So, if you have a plug somewhere, you can fill part of the system and the gauge shows proper pressure in that part of the system . . . but it is entirely possible the rest of the system is empty or refrigerant is not moving around as it should

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Old 05-08-2018, 03:05 PM   #18
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Default Re: AC Refuses to be fixed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catch-TwentyTwo View Post
I didn't say there was no "leak sealer" in the product. What I was saying is that my A/C doesn't have a leak. it was the tiny gasket that blew out, and was replaced so no leaks ever. I do appreciate your post showing the product.
If you do not remove all of the moisture (which you need a good two stage vacuum pump to do)then the sealer that is in the product will begin to react with the moisture. This will gum up your system. If this has occurred already, then you need to replace the whole system to get rid of the sealant. That is why you should never use R134 containing sealant. Professionals when testing refrigerant levels will check if sealant is used. If they detect it, either it adds a ton of $$$ to the bill or more likely they will refuse to work on it. This is all fdryer is trying to say. Good luck.

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Old 05-08-2018, 10:08 PM   #19
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Default Re: AC Refuses to be fixed

^ Well said and thank you.

A blown seal allowing refrigerant is still a leak. I don't know how else to put it. Every ac system is sealed when it came from the factory and under warranty for whatever period a car warranty is good for. After new car warranty expires, GM could care less as anyone will pay for repairs out of warranty. Between warranty expiration and several years afterwards, all ac systems suffer wear and tear. A leak is 98% of all vehicle ac problems. This seal leak is no different from any other leak. Its still a leak. Loss of refrigerant. Refrigerant is always under pressure in a sealed system whether its running or not. Any break in this sealed system is always considered a leak whether its caused by a crash where lines are ruptured, spewing out refrigerant, oil and dye or leaks out slowly from a worn service valve. A leak is a leak, period. Loss of refrigerant means a leak from a sealed system.

Every refrigerator is sealed and most of them in the last ten, twenty or thirty years use r134a, the same refrigerant in our cars, trucks and suvs. Refrigerators last almost forever and rarely leak. Guess why? Take a working refrigerator along and powered up in any vehicle over every pothole and expose it to all four seasons outdoors and see how long it lasts.

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Old 05-09-2018, 12:11 AM   #20
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Default Re: AC Refuses to be fixed

OP - I don't think anyone has asked how much 134 you added. An empty system takes 24 oz.

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