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Old 04-13-2018, 12:52 AM   #1
KNGRK9
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1999 SL2
Default Saturn SL2 1999 Timing Chain Replacement

Hello all I am about to undertake a needed repair on my Saturn. I bought it at 180k for 500$ up in Wisconsin, now living happily in Florida. I am attempting to find a good timing chain replacement guide and any tips that would be helpful to do this with the engine still in the car. Currently at 237k miles with oil having been changed every 3k

I will be purchasing a new timing chain set (Cloyes brand), replacing current timing cover (crack in upper portion, likely the cause of current chain tick, contamination) and valve cover and gaskets replacement.

Essentially I need a good step by step guide for replacing the timing chain with the engine still in car.

If I cannot find a suitable timing cover (what years will fit the 99 DOHC?) to replace my current cracked one, what would be a good way to repair the crack in it? JB weld? Steelstick?

Estimate of how long the repair could/should take? Potential issues I may run into?

Also, p0138 is a current code. Unsure of where to start with this. Seems to pop up whenever it rains and lots of water is getting thrown around under the car.

...
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Old 04-13-2018, 01:13 AM   #2
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1998 SC2
Default Re: Saturn SL2 1999 Timing Chain Replacement

The 99, 00, 01, 02 timing cover will fit.

There are minor differences between the 99-02 and 91-98 DOHC engines but the basic processes are the same. There is no caned how-to for chain replacement as there is just to many things that have to be covered that may or may not be pertinent to your job.

In the center of the page is a search box. Enter timing chain replace read what comes be careful as it will pull up all forums and not just the S-Series. After that use search and enter timing cover replace. Once you get to results watch the dates on the posts as old recommendations for parts may be sadly out of date. For example all of the timing chain kits are made in Asia and quality tends to be all over the place so select parts from recent recommendations.

Once you have done some reading then you can use sections from the service manual as a guide to the specific tasks, timing cover remove and replace and timing chain remove and replace as these cover the critical steps for qualified mechanics.

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Old 04-13-2018, 01:42 AM   #3
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Default Re: Saturn SL2 1999 Timing Chain Replacement

Since you are leaving the engine in the car, you will need to jack the engine up and pull the upper mount.

Make sure to give yourself room to get the 4 screws that go through the oil pan, on the passenger side, below the #1 cylinder.

Mahle makes the oil pump and front balancer seal as a kit with high quality aluminum RTV. It can be ordered at FLAPS or at RockAuto.com

The alternator, belt tensioner, P/S pump, and A/C compressor will need to be removed from engine, as well as the idler pulley and the harmonic balancer.

The bolt for the balancer pulley is torqued, at the factory, to 153 ft-lbs. You will need BOTH a torch and an air impact to get the bolt out of the crankshaft.

Removal of the water pump is recommended, but it is not a requirement. You'll see why, when you tackle this job, as there are dowel pins for the cover to slide off of, and one of them is near the water pump. Some of the bolts are harder to get to as well.

Once the cover is off, you have two chain guides and the chain tensioner, as well as the crankshaft chain sprocket.

Here is a video of the timing marks you will be looking for to line everything up:

My engine is a 1995 year. There are some differences. Use this reference for the timing marks ONLY!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PGfFUM5AX7U

...
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Old 04-13-2018, 06:24 AM   #4
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Default Re: Saturn SL2 1999 Timing Chain Replacement

My thread at post 273 records my adventure in timing cover removal and replacement.
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...230898&page=14

This job was not too bad, with one caveat. It is very hard to keep the RTV seal on the bottom corner of the timing cover good. Easy to fix though, just pop the oil pan off and reseal it.

...
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Old 04-13-2018, 10:16 AM   #5
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Default Re: Saturn SL2 1999 Timing Chain Replacement

Yes, I would agree that sealing everything correctly would require removal of the oil pan, since old RTV will be left on the pan mating surface crevices.

...
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Old 04-13-2018, 11:07 AM   #6
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Default Re: Saturn SL2 1999 Timing Chain Replacement

Removing and replacing the oil pan while in the car and having it end up leak tight is almost impossible.

Quote:
... about to undertake a needed repair on my Saturn. I bought it at 180k for 500$ up in Wisconsin,
Exactly why do you think that the timing chain should be replaced?

P138 - Is the rear heated sensor high voltage and it is likely being caused by all the cooling provided by the water spray on the converter and sensor. Don't drive through deep puddles.

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Old 04-13-2018, 11:45 AM   #7
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1998 SL2
Default Re: Saturn SL2 1999 Timing Chain Replacement

Get baggies, label them for your bolts. Too easy to add time to your repair by having the bolt fairy visit and take away one of your bolts.

Figure about a weekend with no power tools. But YMMV.

First chain I did, got stymied by the crankshaft pulley (harmonic balancer) bolt for a few weeks. Could not get that sucker off. Finally removed the bumper cover to give me room and used a 4' breaker.

Second chain, the crankshaft pulley came off easy. But one of the top sprocket bolts would not budge. Took two people, me holding the wrench on the camshaft flat, and another turning the sprocket bolt. . . . and the wrench on the camshaft flat actually snapped in two.

wscreate, cboss, Hunt4Steve, rc1488, are among a few who have good threads with pictures. Low Saturn has posted some pages from teh manual which are helpful, too.

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Old 04-13-2018, 12:37 PM   #8
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Default Re: Saturn SL2 1999 Timing Chain Replacement

I've never tried to replace the chain with the engine in the car, but after how much fun it is with the engine out I can't think of anything I'd like to do less (car related...) than replace one of these timing chains in the car. Especially if you have an automatic transmission it's not really any more aggravation to pull the motor out.

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Old 04-14-2018, 03:24 AM   #9
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Default Re: Saturn SL2 1999 Timing Chain Replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
Removing and replacing the oil pan while in the car and having it end up leak tight is almost impossible.



Exactly why do you think that the timing chain should be replaced?

P138 - Is the rear heated sensor high voltage and it is likely being caused by all the cooling provided by the water spray on the converter and sensor. Don't drive through deep puddles.
Ticking near. timing cover at irregular rate. More noticeable at cold start and under load e.g., acceleration.

Not a lot of puddles but I'm in Florida we've been getting a lot of rain. I try to avoid them now after I sunk it before.

...
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Old 04-14-2018, 09:39 AM   #10
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Default Re: Saturn SL2 1999 Timing Chain Replacement

You have a lifter or several that are making noise. This can be fixed/reduced by changing the brand/type of oil and filter in some cases. Do not use anything heavier or lighter than 5W-30 or 10W-30 in that engine.

Chain and clutch are both best done at the same time and that means the engine comes out. Doing it in the car is not easy and requires both experience and a bunch of tools that most people do not have readily available.

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Old 04-14-2018, 10:28 AM   #11
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Default Re: Saturn SL2 1999 Timing Chain Replacement

First remove the belt to see if the sound is still there. If so then it could be chian or related.

I used a pry bar thru the balancer and under the oil pan lip to get them off. Same way going on. If you put it against the cover only it will break it almost without fail.

I've seen it written that you can put a breaker bar on it and crank the engine to get it to break loose as well but have never tried it.

The tensioner comes off, water pump is your call. I'd replace both if they have any number of miles on them.

Dont forget the bolt in the center of the cover just below the motor mount.

on install, I put a screw driver between the timing cover and the oil pan to open up the space a bit and then press sealer into the space with my thumb. always worked for me. Of course I put a thin layer on both surfaces before install too.

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Old 04-14-2018, 10:54 AM   #12
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Default Re: Saturn SL2 1999 Timing Chain Replacement

From the 1998 SERVICE MANUAL:

“RTV Sealant....Equivalent products may be used if Saturn material is not available, buy they may not seal.”

...
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Old 04-14-2018, 11:07 AM   #13
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Default Re: Saturn SL2 1999 Timing Chain Replacement

Leave the 60s and RTV behind and move into the 21st century. RTV does not bond well to anything except RTV and it has an impossibly short working time.

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Old 04-14-2018, 02:48 PM   #14
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Default Re: Saturn SL2 1999 Timing Chain Replacement

https://youtu.be/_47lrLGjMBw

Video of the sound with belt removed.

...
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Old 04-14-2018, 03:09 PM   #15
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Default Re: Saturn SL2 1999 Timing Chain Replacement

I'm in the group that recommends doing it in the car. Access is poor, but it is certainly doable. All the steps to remove the engine/trans are pure "extra work".

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Old 04-14-2018, 03:14 PM   #16
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Default Re: Saturn SL2 1999 Timing Chain Replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by KNGRK9 View Post
https://youtu.be/_47lrLGjMBw

Video of the sound with belt removed.
Lifters.

Take a long screw driver and run the tip along the head on the intake and exhaust side right at the edge of the cam cover and listen by pressing the end of the handle against your ear. You will hear each valve/lifter clearly.

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Old 04-14-2018, 03:35 PM   #17
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Default Re: Saturn SL2 1999 Timing Chain Replacement

I do believe you're correct. That would make sense. Seems to be located more towards the firewall. Used the method with long screw driver.

What would you recommend for fixing this? I've heard of adding transmission fluid to the oil ATF+4 IIRC

Thinking about doing oil changes earlier despite using synthetic. Currently doing every 3K

...
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Old 04-14-2018, 05:17 PM   #18
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Default Re: Saturn SL2 1999 Timing Chain Replacement

If you decide to add ATF to your oil, to clean out your engine and lifters, use DEXRON-III.

Do not use more than 20-25% of total oil capacity, for this. It will take some time to clean them up, but the ATF will get build up out of the engine/lifters.

ATF "suspends"(instead of absorbing like engine oil does) particulates in it.(So, yes the dirt/sludge is "in" the fluid but not part of the fluid). This allows better filtration, hence why it is designed for automatic transmissions. ATF suspends particulates, because it is designed to mostly carry metallic shavings at a microscopic level. If these were absorbed by the ATF, your transmission would blow much quicker than any Chrysler automatic does.

It takes some talent for that, as Chrysler probably makes the worst transmissions out of the U.S. auto companies.

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Old 04-14-2018, 07:40 PM   #19
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Default Re: Saturn SL2 1999 Timing Chain Replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by KNGRK9 View Post
I do believe you're correct. That would make sense. Seems to be located more towards the firewall. Used the method with long screw driver.

What would you recommend for fixing this? I've heard of adding transmission fluid to the oil ATF+4 IIRC

Thinking about doing oil changes earlier despite using synthetic. Currently doing every 3K
Adding a 10 weight oil(ATF) is counter productive as the issue is not a stuck condition.

What are you using for engine oil now?

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Old 04-14-2018, 08:39 PM   #20
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Default Re: Saturn SL2 1999 Timing Chain Replacement

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Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
Adding a 10 weight oil(ATF) is counter productive as the issue is not a stuck condition.

What are you using for engine oil now?
I am currently running Mobil 1 full synthetic 5w 30 along with a K&N 1002 oil filter I was previously using the fl400s and Castrol GTX full synthetic 5 W 30

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