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Old 02-24-2018, 01:47 AM   #1
cityhawk
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1993 SW2
2001 L-Series 3.0L Wagon
Default Mouse belt issues

More on my mouse belt saga...

I recently posted this thread about the manual clips for attaching the mouse belt shoulder straps. I did manage to solve the problem of getting out the clip, but the reason for needing the clip in the first place hasn't gone away.

So, some days later, I started up the car and the mouse belt on the driver's side didn't budge from its forward position. Not wanting a repeat of the drama from a few days earlier, I decided to just detach the shoulder belt and leave it be and drive for a bit. Eventually, the belt holder pulled back into place.... but then it moved forward and backward for a while... sometimes coming to rest in the rear position, but then moving forward a bit...etc. Finally, it settled into the correct position and I reattached the shoulder belt and went on my way.

The first deduction I made was that the problem was local to the left shoulder belt because the right one has been working fine.

It was normal for another day or two. Then last night I went to run an errand after parking the car for a couple of hours and noticed that the dome light was on. I got into the car to discover that the switch for the dome light was in the "door" position (meaning the light should have been off when the door was closed). I turned the switch to the middle (always off) position so that the dome light wouldn't stay on forever, killing my battery.

I started the car and the mouse belt didn't move again, remaining in the front position. It did the little dance that it had done a day or two prior until settling into place in the proper position. Once it had done so, I turned the dome light switch back to the "door" position and the light stayed off.

So if your deductive troubleshooting mind works like mine does, you would draw the conclusion that the problem with both the mouse belt and the dome light would be the little button switch in the door jamb that tells the car that the door is closed.

However, for the past 24 hours, the mouse belt has continued its erratic behavior in spite of the dome light not coming on when I switched to the "door" position... though this evening, the light behavior has been similar to last night, sometimes glowing dimly while the mouse belt does its little back-and-forth dance.

A couple of other data points to ponder which may or may not be relevant:

When I stop the car with the engine running, then open the driver's door, the mouse belt usually remains pulled back on the B pillar in the "engaged" position. But when I shut off the engine it retracts forward as it should.

Also, I replaced the shoulder belts recently. My passenger shoulder belt got chewed through by my dog. So I ordered a new pair from saturnautosalvage.com (the driver's side belt was getting frayed, so I thought I'd replace them both). I took off the center console to access the recoil mounts underneath it. There's a wire that plugs into the driver's side one, presumably for the warning light and bell that goes off when you leave the belt unattached from the mouse clip. While I did plug that wire back in correctly, the bell chimes and the warning light that shows the picture of the shoulder belt remains on at all times. When the belt does it's dance then finally settles into the proper engaged position on the B pillar, the warning chime chimes again.

So, perhaps the contacts in the wire for the replacement belt had crusty contacts or something. But I'm not sure that that's related to the mouse dance/dome light problem that I'm still thinking is somehow related to the "door is closed" button switch.

Any thoughts (or anyone out there with experience with this)?

...
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Old 02-24-2018, 11:11 AM   #2
cityhawk
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Default Re: Mouse belt issues

and if it is the button switch in the door, what's that switch called and how simple is it to replace?

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1993 SW2 MT 186,000 hard Boston city miles ("Rozzie")
Gone but not forgotten:
2001 LW300 ("Elle")
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1928 Ford Model A Tudor Sedan

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Old 02-24-2018, 03:41 PM   #3
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Default Re: Mouse belt issues

No idea what the switch in the door is actually called, I've always called it "door jamb switch".

"Highly complicated" to remove...pull the lower B-Pillar out & push the sensor. It's got 2 tabs on the inside that lock it from falling out, might be able to wiggle it and pull then avoid having to pull the B-pillar trim out.

I assume swapping to proper belts from a '95 is out of the question?

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Old 03-01-2018, 10:55 PM   #4
cityhawk
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Default Re: Mouse belt issues

If my plastic rocker trim is already off, does the switch pop out of the sill?

I have some more data: My car alarm has been going off periodically for the helluvit. Another indicator that perhaps the door jamb switch is bad.

And, yeah, I could swap the belts out, but I kind of like keeping this time capsule feature. And though they can be a pain in the butt, they are also kind of handy for the urban driver who often makes very short trips. 90% of the time, I put on my lap belt too, but sometimes for the very short trip, I might forego fastening my belt, and with my luck, that will be when the overzealous popo swoops out of nowhere to give me a ticket for not wearing my seatbelt. But with the mouse belts, I'm always wearing my shoulder belt. It's actually about 50-50 in terms of convenience/inconvenience.... but they are truly a rare bird and a great conversation piece to the incidental passenger.

...
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1993 SW2 MT 186,000 hard Boston city miles ("Rozzie")
Gone but not forgotten:
2001 LW300 ("Elle")
1999 SW2 MT
Project cars:
1966 Corvair Monza convertible
1928 Ford Model A Tudor Sedan

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Old 03-02-2018, 11:20 AM   #5
fetchitfido
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Default Re: Mouse belt issues

Should be this: https://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-D6066...dp/B000C9QJLI/

There's little locking tabs that keep it from falling out and from easily being pulled out (prying is likely to end up breaking it, not good if you're trying to reuse one). Some pushing from the backside should work fine.

Best mod I did to my '93 SL2 (including all the performance mods) was getting rid of the mouse belts. Having to wait for the stupid things to move so I wasn't beheaded trying to get out was far far more annoying than clipping/unclipping the modern belt.

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Old 03-02-2018, 11:57 AM   #6
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Default Re: Mouse belt issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by fetchitfido View Post
Should be this: https://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-D6066...dp/B000C9QJLI/

There's little locking tabs that keep it from falling out and from easily being pulled out (prying is likely to end up breaking it, not good if you're trying to reuse one). Some pushing from the backside should work fine.

Best mod I did to my '93 SL2 (including all the performance mods) was getting rid of the mouse belts. Having to wait for the stupid things to move so I wasn't beheaded trying to get out was far far more annoying than clipping/unclipping the modern belt.
Are you sure about this part....it looks to be the one on the dash side panels in the Gen3 but Amazon does not pair it with any Saturn S Series generation as far as I can see. If you look up the part on the Rockauto site is shows GM full size trucks and Saturn Ion.

Aren't the Gen1 switches located on the door frame like Gen2?

I think the Gen1 part number for the left/right front door switch is
Quote:
Part Number: 21021863 ; 88924259
The left/right rear door jamb switch is
Quote:
21021864
Rockauto shows this one for Gen2 front and rear doors but does not show one for Gen1.....





...
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2011 Suburban LT (111,176 km @ 05/2018)

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Last edited by trottida; 03-02-2018 at 12:11 PM..

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Old 03-02-2018, 12:47 PM   #7
fetchitfido
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Default Re: Mouse belt issues

Should be the same (at least compatible) Gen 1 & Gen 2. I refuse to grant the scammers at RA my internet traffic let alone my business anymore. Apparently Amazon's interchange isn't any better than RA's which doesn't surprise me a bit (but at least I can return stuff to Amazon when they don't pack what they claim to pack).

GM's sites agree with your part numbers, but they're all discontinued >.<
eBay only has the rear part number new, and when I checked they only had 1 used front switch. It's just a simple push button switch, anything with the right plunger depth will work.

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Old 03-07-2018, 01:30 AM   #8
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Default Re: Mouse belt issues

Thanks for your efforts, trottida.

> 'it looks to be the one on the dash side panels in the Gen3'

The dash location is better than rear of door, since less lateral 'play', which eventually destroys the switches.
Maybe retrofit !

* *
Fido, thanks for that find... a much more pleasant price point.

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Old 03-07-2018, 10:22 PM   #9
Low Saturn
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Default Re: Mouse belt issues

This is what Gen 1 door pin switches look like. You press the two tabs from the back side then they slide out from the front.


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