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Old 02-20-2018, 08:52 PM   #1
NWSaturn247
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1993 SL2
Default Replacing ECM

I am browsing Craigslist advertisements and came across a 2002 stripper SC automatic with 122k miles for $800. The owner said the vehicle was running rough so he took it to a shop and they said it needed a new ECM, coil packs, plugs and wires. Worth it? What do shops charge to flash the ECM?

...
1993 SL2 AT - 188k miles
running blend of various SOPUS oils & MGL3614


TCW3 dosed fuel

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Old 02-20-2018, 09:22 PM   #2
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2002 SC1
Default Re: Replacing ECM

Try to get the buyer to clarify his acronyms. The car has an ICM (Ignition Control Module) and a PCM (Powertrain Control Module). The ignition control module is under the coil packs and is easy to change. The PCM is a bit more tricky with 3rd gen cars because it has to get along with the BCM (Body Control Module).

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Old 02-20-2018, 09:51 PM   #3
NWSaturn247
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1993 SL2
Default Re: Replacing ECM

My bad, it is the ICM. So I found one on eBay for ~$120 with a 5 year warranty. So parts would be about $200. I would install the parts. What would the dealer labor be to flash the new ICM?

Here is the ad

https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/...500662592.html

...
1993 SL2 AT - 188k miles
running blend of various SOPUS oils & MGL3614


TCW3 dosed fuel

.....
Goldie: a dame to kill for...watch out squirrels!

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Old 02-20-2018, 09:56 PM   #4
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2002 SC1
Default Re: Replacing ECM

No flash required. Plug and play.

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Old 02-20-2018, 10:05 PM   #5
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1993 SL2
Default Re: Replacing ECM

Great! Is this a good deal? I like it has few options to fail, and no sunroof!

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1993 SL2 AT - 188k miles
running blend of various SOPUS oils & MGL3614


TCW3 dosed fuel

.....
Goldie: a dame to kill for...watch out squirrels!

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Old 02-20-2018, 10:18 PM   #6
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2002 SC1
Default Re: Replacing ECM

If it looks OK and runs, seems like a reasonable price. The Saturnfans community can certainly help you get it running well.

$120 seems high for an ICM. I bought one at Autozone for less than half of that. Some here recommend getting a junkyard unit rather than aftermarket. I've had no issues with my BDW aftermarket ICM. Personally, I'd just change plugs and wires first, and then run it for a while and see what, if any, codes appear.

A used PCM for $120 sounds about right, but it is very unlikely that the car needs one. These very rarely fail.

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Last edited by BV22; 02-20-2018 at 10:23 PM..

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Old 02-20-2018, 10:19 PM   #7
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1998 SC2
Default Re: Replacing ECM

Pick and Pull 2 coils and the ICM is 20-40$, Aftermarket is junk and expensive.

The price is good as long as the diagnosis is correct.

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Old 02-20-2018, 11:04 PM   #8
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1993 SL2
Default Re: Replacing ECM

H1 is a major shop. Maybe I could offer less but $800 seems pretty cheap.

...
1993 SL2 AT - 188k miles
running blend of various SOPUS oils & MGL3614


TCW3 dosed fuel

.....
Goldie: a dame to kill for...watch out squirrels!

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Old 02-21-2018, 12:07 AM   #9
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1995 SC2
Default Re: Replacing ECM

www.car-part.com Price a used ICM/Coil Pack. ICM failure is not common on the S-Series.

Make sure you clean the bolts, that hold the ICM/Coil Packs in place. The bolts act as a ground. Clean the surfaces of the ICM, and use di-electric grease on the pins for the coils. Not much, but a light coating to prevent moisture getting in there. Make sure to use a heat-sink grease on the ICM surface that touches the transmission bell housing surface. And make sure the #1/#4 cylinder spark plug wires are NOT touching each other, overlapping each other, and remain parallel to each other up to their respective spark plugs, or you will get the "Ghost Camshaft Position Sensor" DTC.

As a general rule of thumb, in my personal opinion, it is usually a good idea to replace the plugs and wires, change the oil, flush the coolant, and change the transmission fluid when you buy a used vehicle.

Everyone has their preferences, mine are leaning towards "If I perform the maintenance, then I know it has been done."

This car will likely still have its Death-Kill orange coolant, so you will definitely want to flush all that out and replace with universal gold or green and make sure it is 50/50 mix.

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Old 02-21-2018, 07:04 AM   #10
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1998 SC2
Default Re: Replacing ECM

ICM failure is actually quite common, you just have to be able to recognize the symptoms.

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Old 02-23-2018, 01:24 AM   #11
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1993 SL2
Default Re: Replacing ECM

I have not contacted the seller yet. I am not sure if this is an SC1 or SC2. Can I swap the geartooth alloys on my 93 SL2 to this 2002 regardless of DOHC or SOHC?

...
1993 SL2 AT - 188k miles
running blend of various SOPUS oils & MGL3614


TCW3 dosed fuel

.....
Goldie: a dame to kill for...watch out squirrels!

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Old 02-23-2018, 09:04 AM   #12
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2001 SC2
Default Re: Replacing ECM

Any S-Series wheel fits on any S-Series unless your's has a bent/broken suspension piece. Last guy to have an issue swapping wheels swore until he was blue in the face there was nothing wrong with his car...then his alignment shop was like "Hey dude, you need to replace ___ 'cause it's bent"

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Old 02-23-2018, 09:44 AM   #13
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1993 SL2
Default Re: Replacing ECM

So, if the 2002 happens to have 14 inch wheels, is the circumference the same as the 15 inch spec?

...
1993 SL2 AT - 188k miles
running blend of various SOPUS oils & MGL3614


TCW3 dosed fuel

.....
Goldie: a dame to kill for...watch out squirrels!

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Old 02-23-2018, 03:50 PM   #14
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2002 SC2
1998 SL2
Default Re: Replacing ECM

Quote:
Originally Posted by NWSaturn247 View Post
So, if the 2002 happens to have 14 inch wheels, is the circumference the same as the 15 inch spec?
Yep (assuming OEM). 14 inch will have taller tires, but overall circumference is the same (or close enough not to worry about). there's a link in this thread, I think

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=156001

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Old 02-23-2018, 05:05 PM   #15
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1993 SL2
Default Re: Replacing ECM

Sweet

My car always logs exactly 5 miles in the highway odometer checks. Hopefully the system in the SC1 records the same inches per revolution.

...
1993 SL2 AT - 188k miles
running blend of various SOPUS oils & MGL3614


TCW3 dosed fuel

.....
Goldie: a dame to kill for...watch out squirrels!

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Old 02-24-2018, 01:24 AM   #16
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1993 SL2
Default Re: Replacing ECM

Does the 3rd generation S-Series have an Intelligent Oil Life Monitor? If so, what is a typical OCI according to the system?

...
1993 SL2 AT - 188k miles
running blend of various SOPUS oils & MGL3614


TCW3 dosed fuel

.....
Goldie: a dame to kill for...watch out squirrels!

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Old 02-24-2018, 10:13 AM   #17
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1998 SC2
Default Re: Replacing ECM

Supposedly, and it runs out to a longer interval for most people 4000-5000 miles I believe.

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Old 02-24-2018, 09:59 PM   #18
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1995 SC2
Default Re: Replacing ECM

Quote:
Originally Posted by NWSaturn247 View Post
I have not contacted the seller yet. I am not sure if this is an SC1 or SC2. Can I swap the geartooth alloys on my 93 SL2 to this 2002 regardless of DOHC or SOHC?
Get the 8th digit of the VIN, and you can verify which engine it is. The tenth digit of the VIN will confirm the model year.

Eight Digit VIN Codes:
VIN "7" = DOHC
VIN "8" = SOHC

Tenth Digit VIN Codes:
VIN "Y" = 2000
VIN "1" = 2001
VIN "2" = 2002

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Old 02-24-2018, 10:06 PM   #19
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1995 SC2
Default Re: Replacing ECM

Quote:
Originally Posted by NWSaturn247 View Post
Does the 3rd generation S-Series have an Intelligent Oil Life Monitor? If so, what is a typical OCI according to the system?
Checking the oil at every refuel, per the owner's manual, and topping off as needed. Whatever the actual OCI programming is, it is likely that the engine will be using small amounts of oil. And regardless of consumption/OCI programming, the Maintenance Schedule will call for 3-month/3,000-mile OCIs for cars used under city driving, short trips, towing, or in dusty climates & 6-month/7,500-mile OCIs for vehicles that are only used for highway driving. These cars were only ever shipped with conventional oils at the factory, and were discontinued well before GM DEXOS-I synthetic specs were even thought of.

Ignore the "dummy light" on the dash, and monitor your oil level/OCIs as you would for your 1993 model S-Series, and just hit the reset button on the fuse panel under the hood as needed.

...
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"He checks the gas, and fills the oil....."

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Old 02-25-2018, 09:11 PM   #20
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1993 SL2
Default Re: Replacing ECM

When I purchase my 3rd gen Saturn, I will probably change the fuel filter ASAP.

Is there currently a quality alternative to the Wix 33731? The cheapest Wix filter was $45.55 on eBay

Ouch

I did see on the O'Reilly website that the MicroGard part has the same model number so MAYBE made by Wix. Currently Wix makes the MicroGard oil filters.

...
1993 SL2 AT - 188k miles
running blend of various SOPUS oils & MGL3614


TCW3 dosed fuel

.....
Goldie: a dame to kill for...watch out squirrels!

Last edited by NWSaturn247; 02-25-2018 at 09:26 PM..

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