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Old 02-18-2018, 12:02 PM   #1
JerryHughes
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Default Clear coat removal

Hi all,
I'm working on a car for a neighbor who has an old car that has that, typical "whitish" peeling top coat, assumingly caused by time and running the car through car washes that have contact brushes. Anyway, the top coat is peeling from the hood to the trunk. Anyone know of a relatively "easy" way to remove just the top coat along the top of the car, without damaging the under coats of paint so that a wax job would vastly improve the looks of the car? Thank you for any insite.
Jerry

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Old 02-18-2018, 12:38 PM   #2
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Default Re: Clear coat removal

The color coat is a flat finish and absolutely not designed to be exposed to UV and waxed. Car needs to go to a good body-paint shop for a new clear coat. This can not be successfully hacked either.

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Old 02-18-2018, 01:02 PM   #3
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Default Re: Clear coat removal

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
The color coat is a flat finish and absolutely not designed to be exposed to UV and waxed. Car needs to go to a good body-paint shop for a new clear coat. This can not be successfully hacked either.
Thank you for that info. A lot of time, not wasted. Maybe "Earl Scheib" can do a "quicky" clear coat, as long as that info is passed on to the new buyer.

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Old 02-18-2018, 01:12 PM   #4
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Happy Re: Clear coat removal

Well, yes and no on removing it.
If it is flaking off anyway and you use a plastic scraper on it at a very steep angle (almost flat against the body), you may be able to remove most of it.
Then after some gentle 1200 grit scuffing you can re-clear over the color coat if it is not too badly damaged.
Your biggest problem will be blending edges where old clear coat remains, and a risk that any remaining clear coat could fail later.
Clean any wax residue off with several applications of Prep-Sol or another silicone and wax remover.
You can use "wheel clear" rattle can paint or just spray proper automotive clear coat (it's not that hard to do in 2-3 thin coats).
I did the above on an old MBZ that had clear coat failure on the roof.
It was *not* showroom pretty, but it worked entirely well enough to eek the car along for several years more prior to doing a proper re-paint.

If you take it to a body shop, at least any decent body shop I know of (even Earl Schieb), they will not just re-clear.
They will insist upon taking it down to the bare metal (or plastic or whatever) and then prime, color coat and clear.
This is because otherwise they cannot guarantee the finish or adhesion.
It will also likely cost a small fortune.

All that being said, personally I would just sand down to the metal, prime with primer/filler, wet sand smooth, paint color and clear and be done with it.

Depending upon how much your neighbor's car and your time are worth, any or all of the above may be reasonable options.

Oh, as OldNuc said, the color coat is not designed to be exposed to UV and the elements.
Chances are it is oxidized if it has been exposed for long.
In that case, clear coating on top of it may be problematic.

...
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Old 02-18-2018, 03:25 PM   #5
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Default Re: Clear coat removal

Here's a video link to a guy who preps and resprays a small part of a car where the clear coat has peeled off. On small areas you can probably get away with using a rattle can of clear (I have used Rustoleum with decent results).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbSIjsUeWZQ

If it a larger area such as a roof, door, hood, trunk lid, then a cheap respray may be the most economic.

Clear coat has to be kept waxed otherwise the UV will play havoc with it. Down here in Florida, I see it daily and in many cases, these are cars that are like 3 to 5 years old and that are basically mistreated. I am surprised the DCF doesn't have a department for mistreatment of cars!

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Old 02-18-2018, 03:27 PM   #6
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Default Re: Clear coat removal

It can either be a real PITA or very simple, and depends on how it's degrading. I've seen a number of people remove large sections of clear using the plastic razor blades (or a real blade and caution) such as DIYguy mentioned. If the clear is flaking more likely it will work. If the clear has been polished through often much harder to do.

If it comes off, regardless of method, it can be cleared again as long as there is enough base coat to sand enough to give it some tooth again so the clear will bite.

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Old 02-18-2018, 03:47 PM   #7
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Default Re: Clear coat removal

Thanks, florida and Signmaster. Yup, I think the clear coat is so bad, it's not worth the effort to realize any extra money when done. Is 90% of this clear coat damage done because people use automatic car washes that have brushes?????? It sure looks like that by the "pattern" of damage across the hood, roof, etc.

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Old 02-18-2018, 04:51 PM   #8
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Default Re: Clear coat removal

There is some of that from the brush type of car wash but most of it is from UV damage. The clear coat tends to come off of many older cars for lots of reasons and as you can get it off with the edge of a used credit card the older formulations did not bond well to the color coat which is the major cause of failure.

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Old 02-18-2018, 06:12 PM   #9
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Default Re: Clear coat removal

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
There is some of that from the brush type of car wash but most of it is from UV damage. The clear coat tends to come off of many older cars for lots of reasons and as you can get it off with the edge of a used credit card the older formulations did not bond well to the color coat which is the major cause of failure.
It's strange that I see many foreign cars that are supposed to have "higher quality" with that problem. Guess it crosses all manufacturers, huh.

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Old 02-18-2018, 07:14 PM   #10
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Default Re: Clear coat removal

It is a matter of the actual paint formulations. Different countries, different rules.

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Old 02-18-2018, 07:15 PM   #11
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Default Re: Clear coat removal

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
It is a matter of the actual paint formulations. Different countries, different rules.
(Makes me want to go out and wax my car)

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Old 02-18-2018, 07:23 PM   #12
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Default Re: Clear coat removal

Years past paints were solvent based, then came along EPA and manufacturers had to move to water based paints. That was a new technology and some manufacturers had more problems than others. Modern Nissan's have a particularly poor records for paint finish longevity.

I have an 03 Suburban and I keep on top of the paint. It's always hand washed and I keep up the wax. About a month or so ago, I gave it it's first claybar. Boy was the paint surface sooooo smooooth after that. BUT it then got a generous wax polishing to preserve it. Just after mine we did my two son's Saturn's; a 2002 SL2 in White and a 2003 L300 in Galaxy Silver. Both came out looking the business.

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Old 02-18-2018, 07:26 PM   #13
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Default Re: Clear coat removal

Quote:
Originally Posted by floridasl22002 View Post
Years past paints were solvent based, then came along EPA and manufacturers had to move to water based paints. That was a new technology and some manufacturers had more problems than others. Modern Nissan's have a particularly poor records for paint finish longevity.

I have an 03 Suburban and I keep on top of the paint. It's always hand washed and I keep up the wax. About a month or so ago, I gave it it's first claybar. Boy was the paint surface sooooo smooooth after that. BUT it then got a generous wax polishing to preserve it. Just after mine we did my two son's Saturn's; a 2002 SL2 in White and a 2003 L300 in Galaxy Silver. Both came out looking the business.
Yes, I was really surprised when I first clay-barred my Saturn. Not only did the "roughness" disappear, the finish really did reflect the work---and it's not that much work! And the following wax just topped it off.

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Old 02-18-2018, 10:15 PM   #14
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Happy Re: Clear coat removal

Quote:
If it comes off, regardless of method, it can be cleared again as long as there is enough base coat to sand enough to give it some tooth again so the clear will bite.
That is part of the problem.
If the clear coat has been flaked away for a long time so the base coat is heavily damaged, or it is already seriously thinned out for whatever reason, the base color could easily be damaged beyond repair even with very fine sandpaper.

Even then the only reliable way the clear coat will stick to it is to first spray a couple of mist coats of adhesion promoter, then the clear coats.
This stuff really does help, but even so it cannot work miracles-
https://www.autozone.com/paint-and-b...mer/460112_0_0

I use it between the base material and the primer, then between the primer and the color coats, and then between the color coats and the clear coats.
I have had really good luck with it, even on flexible parts, most recently my SC2's front bumper.
FWIW......

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Old 02-18-2018, 10:21 PM   #15
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Default Re: Clear coat removal

Quote:
Originally Posted by DIYguy View Post
That is part of the problem.
If the clear coat has been flaked away for a long time so the base coat is heavily damaged, or it is already seriously thinned out for whatever reason, the base color could easily be damaged beyond repair even with very fine sandpaper.

Even then the only reliable way the clear coat will stick to it is to first spray a couple of mist coats of adhesion promoter, then the clear coats.
This stuff really does help, but even so it cannot work miracles-
https://www.autozone.com/paint-and-b...mer/460112_0_0

I use it between the base material and the primer, then between the primer and the color coats, and then between the color coats and the clear coats.
I have had really good luck with it, even on flexible parts, most recently my SC2's front bumper.
FWIW......
Thanks for the info, DIYguy. Great info in situations that are "borderline" damaged but I think this car is due for a new paint job by the new owner.

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Old 02-18-2018, 11:42 PM   #16
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Default Re: Clear coat removal

Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryHughes View Post
Thanks, florida and Signmaster. Yup, I think the clear coat is so bad, it's not worth the effort to realize any extra money when done. Is 90% of this clear coat damage done because people use automatic car washes that have brushes?????? It sure looks like that by the "pattern" of damage across the hood, roof, etc.
Not really. Most damage to clear coat comes from direct sunlight and heat.

Automotive paints, primers and even the clear coat are given chemical adhesion properties from the polymer compounds they contain. Primer goes a full step further and even has electrostatic charge adhesion.

To harden the paint, the parts are actually heated up in an oven. The process is called "curing". This males the paint more resistant to chemicals, weather, and damage.

Like anything else, it doesn't last forever. Polymers, which are the main component of plastic, are damaged and chemically broken down by direct UV sunlight.

Ever notice how a dash will crack, when left in direct sunlight? At a molecular level, clear coat basically does the exact same thing.

...
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Old 02-18-2018, 11:48 PM   #17
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Default Re: Clear coat removal

There is ONE exception, to my above post:

Water-based automotive paints

Any California-based automotive production plant MUST use WATER-BASED paints, instead of polymer-based paints, thanks to C.A.R.B. Laws

The 1982-1987 & 1989-1992 Chevrolet Camaros/Pontiac Firebirds were produced in Van Nuys, CA. They were prone to peeling clear coat AND peeling base coat(color coat). 1988 Camaro/Firebird models were produced at the Norwood, OH plant, to get around this law and do not suffer from paint peel issues. Production was moved back to CA, due to a UAW strike that led to shutdown of the Norwood facility.

If her BMW has water-based base coat(not exactly sure what Germany has for laws pertaining to this), then it is merely the fact that the paint and clear coat will not stick to each other.

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Old 02-18-2018, 11:48 PM   #18
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Default Re: Clear coat removal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn Night View Post
Ever notice how a dash will crack, when left in direct sunlight? At a molecular level, clear coat basically does the exact same thing.
Yes, but you know, I don't notice cracking dashboards, nearly as much as I did years and years ago. (I'm an old-timer) I think they're making progress.

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Old 02-18-2018, 11:57 PM   #19
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Default Re: Clear coat removal

I have seen plenty of cracked dashboards, and damaging effects of sunlight on automobiles. Grew up in an auto wrecking yard. Sunlight wreaks havoc on interiors.

Today's cars don't actually stay on the road, as long, because of all technological "advances"(which is really just more gadgets that break and require a trip to the dealership for repairs). So, naturally, you won't see as many dashboards with cracks in them. Kinda hard for sunlight to ruin your dash, when your "fine, quality, dependable, built-in-korea-or-some-other-cheap-labor-country" automobile is sitting on a rack, inside the repair facility garage.

America's obsession with greed will be one of the factors, that leads to our downfall and the end times prophecy.

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Old 02-19-2018, 12:11 AM   #20
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Default Re: Clear coat removal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn Night View Post
America's obsession with greed will be one of the factors, that leads to our downfall and the end times prophecy.
(Let the End Times come----I'm all set with my Lord, Jesus Christ.)

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