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Old 01-15-2018, 11:06 AM   #1
SaturnMass
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Default PCM P/N Must Match?

I'm chasing down what seems like no 1st/2nd gear and the search on this forum has lead me to the PCM. My questions is does the P/N have to match up exactly?

My P/N is 21009249 and I was able to locate a PCM 4 towns over but the P/N is 21009349. Does anyone know the significance of the numbers?

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Old 01-15-2018, 11:24 AM   #2
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Default Re: PCM P/N Must Match?

The number may or may not be critical, all depends on a rather long list. What is critical is that to even give you a decent answer we have to know exactly the year, engine and in some cases the model of your car.

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Old 01-16-2018, 02:26 PM   #3
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Default Re: PCM P/N Must Match?

I have a 2002 saturn sl1 with what seems like no 1st, 3rd or 4th gear. I was getting p0732, p0734, and p0783 before I replaced the VB and since then those codes are gone. I do not have any pending codes but then again, I haven't driven it much since the car feels like it stays in 2nd gear. RPM has to be around 1800 before the car starts moving in Drive. Reverse works fantastic.

however, I did noticed that 3 of the 10 pins on top of the VB were burnt. There's another thread on here which describes a very similar situation but I can't post url until my 15th post!! lol

The thread goes through and traces power to the 10 pin connector and I have power to 3 of the positive terminal pins. I do not have power going to the burnt femal connector of the VB harness. The OP of the thread replaced the PCM and burnt connector and everything was shifting super smooth.

I bought a PCM with matching part numbers from ebay but won't be here for like a week and I need to car to be running like 2 days ago so I was wondering if the p/n must match exactly or not.

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Old 01-16-2018, 06:35 PM   #4
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Default Re: PCM P/N Must Match?

With the gen3 PCM there are only 2 different PCM units. Automatic transmission or Manual transmission the engine and/or transmission type is determined in firmware. What all that means you need a 01 or 02 vintage PCM that was removed from a car with a SOHC engine and Automatic transmission. This will be a simple swap by running the security relearn. If is is not from a matching car then dealer reprogram is required. A 00 vintage will also function but it has to have come from a 00 car with a 00 year build date, if built in 99 it will not be compatible.

Burned pins at the transmission are fixed by replacing the harness connector or the PCM AFTER verifying the wiring between the transmission and PCM has continuity. Burned pins can end up opening the power feed from the UHJB so that has to be checked. The solenoids are switched by being GROUNDED through the PCM the 12v is continuous supply with KEY in RUN. If you have 12v to battery negative and the solenoid is not switching then the PCM ground function is suspect.

Bottom line is that part number does not provide all the info you need to have.

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Old 01-16-2018, 08:28 PM   #5
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Default Re: PCM P/N Must Match?

Is this gen3 the same as gen1/2 in that the 12V supply to those trans solenoids is independent of the PCM? If so, missing 12V on any of those power sockets in the harness means you have problems other than the PCM; don't count on that to fix this.

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Old 01-16-2018, 10:03 PM   #6
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Default Re: PCM P/N Must Match?

12V is all from the UHJB and exactly how you measure for the presence of the 12v will determine what you find. There is enough of a ground path through the PCM that IF you are using a high impedance DVM you will get a reading.

THAT is why you check for 12V between the power pin and the BATTERY NEGATIVE.

Read what I wrote above.

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Old 01-16-2018, 11:04 PM   #7
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Default Re: PCM P/N Must Match?

Oh, I did read it, and it wasn't clear to me; neither was the info in that most recent post of yours.

If it wasn't clear to me, I figured it may not be clear to the OP that the PCM does not provide the 12V power at the harness, so a PCM change isn't going to fix that problem.

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Old 01-17-2018, 01:02 PM   #8
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Default Re: PCM P/N Must Match?

Hmm, I wasn't giving a clear description either.

OP, 12V on that harness connector is provided through the fuel-pump relay, which is controlled by the PCM. However, if the engine runs normally then that FP relay must be being activated properly and changing the PCM won't change what you are reading for voltage on the trans 10-pin harness.

To read 12V on those harness sockets the FP relay must be energized, so the engine must be running; or you must read for voltage right at "key-on", when the FB is activated briefly; or you must jumper the appropriate terminals in the relay socket. If you jumper the socket, be sure to remove the relay, as it is double-pole and the trans/FP power circuit is shorted to ground when the relay is not energized. All the power sockets in the harness trans connector come from the same rely, so all should read the same, either 0V or 12v depending on the state of the relay. All this assumes the three trans fuses are OK, and those do feed different sockets in the harness connector.

Again, what I am describing is the gen1/2, if this gen3 is functionally different I invite correction.

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Old 01-17-2018, 02:08 PM   #9
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Default Re: PCM P/N Must Match?

Thank you so much for the info.

So when I ohm tested the old VB, the pins that are burnt are pins C-D which is for 4th gear. All of them came out to between 4.5 to 4.9 besides C-D which came back at 2 ohms.

When I power tested the VB harness, I did it with the car running and in drive. Measured between power pins and negative terminal of the battery. I got power to pins E,J,and G. On a side note, I remember running my red lead of the multimeter over the other pins and seeing something like .4 or .5 volts. Shouldn't those other pins be 0 (grounded)?

I do not have power to pins A and C. From the schematic I found online, pins A-B does the 4th gear and pins C-D does the 3rd gear. Which sort of makes sense because the old VB was throwing codes for incorrect ratio for 2nd to 3rd (PO733) and 3rd to 4th (P0734).

I have a harness coming in this friday/saturday and a PCM with matching part numbers and model year so hopefully it's just plug and play. My plan of attack is to insert the new PCM, power up the car and measure voltage at the same pins to make sure I'm getting 0 and those pins. But it doesn't sound like I'm going to see 12v at those pins just by replacing the PCM. Where is power coming from?

What is the harness is shorted at those pins and therefor not providing power to the solenoid. I could strip wires going to pin A and C a few inches above the harness and see if I'm getting voltage there?

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Old 01-17-2018, 02:09 PM   #10
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Default Re: PCM P/N Must Match?

Quote:
Originally Posted by billr View Post
Hmm, I wasn't giving a clear description either.

OP, 12V on that harness connector is provided through the fuel-pump relay, which is controlled by the PCM. However, if the engine runs normally then that FP relay must be being activated properly and changing the PCM won't change what you are reading for voltage on the trans 10-pin harness.

To read 12V on those harness sockets the FP relay must be energized, so the engine must be running; or you must read for voltage right at "key-on", when the FB is activated briefly; or you must jumper the appropriate terminals in the relay socket. If you jumper the socket, be sure to remove the relay, as it is double-pole and the trans/FP power circuit is shorted to ground when the relay is not energized. All the power sockets in the harness trans connector come from the same rely, so all should read the same, either 0V or 12v depending on the state of the relay. All this assumes the three trans fuses are OK, and those do feed different sockets in the harness connector.

Again, what I am describing is the gen1/2, if this gen3 is functionally different I invite correction.
Where are the trans relay? The ones under the hood???

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Old 01-17-2018, 04:05 PM   #11
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Default Re: PCM P/N Must Match?

The fuel pump relay is in the Inside the car fuse box. Jumper carefully between pin 30 and 87 with the key off and then check for 12v to ground in the trans connector. Use a paper clip as you are not powering anything but the wiring, Disconnect the trans connector before jumpering the FP relay also remove the Fuel pump fuse or it will also run and you do not need that.

Power to the solenoids is from the fuel pump relay. Pin numbers are on the bottom of the relay so match pins to the socket so you jumper the correct 2 pins.

Or you can do this without jumpering the relay by having the car running while you check voltages.

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Old 01-17-2018, 04:16 PM   #12
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Default Re: PCM P/N Must Match?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaturnMass View Post
Thank you so much for the info.

So when I ohm tested the old VB, the pins that are burnt are pins C-D which is for 4th gear. All of them came out to between 4.5 to 4.9 besides C-D which came back at 2 ohms.

When I power tested the VB harness, I did it with the car running and in drive. Measured between power pins and negative terminal of the battery. I got power to pins E,J,and G. On a side note, I remember running my red lead of the multimeter over the other pins and seeing something like .4 or .5 volts. Shouldn't those other pins be 0 (grounded)?

I do not have power to pins A and C. From the schematic I found online, pins A-B does the 4th gear and pins C-D does the 3rd gear. Which sort of makes sense because the old VB was throwing codes for incorrect ratio for 2nd to 3rd (PO733) and 3rd to 4th (P0734).

I have a harness coming in this friday/saturday and a PCM with matching part numbers and model year so hopefully it's just plug and play. My plan of attack is to insert the new PCM, power up the car and measure voltage at the same pins to make sure I'm getting 0 and those pins. But it doesn't sound like I'm going to see 12v at those pins just by replacing the PCM. Where is power coming from?

What is the harness is shorted at those pins and therefor not providing power to the solenoid. I could strip wires going to pin A and C a few inches above the harness and see if I'm getting voltage there?
THE POWER DOES NOT COME FROM THE PCM. If you have no 12v on any wire then you have a broken wire or more likely the TRS 3/4 fuse is blown in the engine compartment fuse box or the wiring in the fuse box to the trans connector has an open. Check the TRS 3/4 fuse.

The PCM must be matched to the car security which requires running the security reset, do not replace the PCM until you have proved it has failed.

The 12v comes from the fuel pump relay to the TRS fuses in the Engine compartment fuse box and from there to the transmission connector.

Last edited by OldNuc; 01-17-2018 at 04:23 PM..

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Old 01-17-2018, 05:30 PM   #13
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Default Re: PCM P/N Must Match?

Thanks oldnuc!

My TRS 3/4 fuse under the hood was toast! put a new one in before I left for work but I didn't get a chance to check for voltage at the vb harness.

So what do you think happened? There must have been a gap between the VB pins on the bus plate with the female side of VB harness. Arc for sometime before it burnt up the plastic around the female connection in the harness, created a short and that's why it pop the fuse?

Fuel pump relay must be okay since I'm getting power to 3 of the 5 pins, correct?

First thing tonight when I get home, I'll run the car and check for voltage on pin A and C at the Valve Body.

Thanks a ton!

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Old 01-17-2018, 05:55 PM   #14
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Default Re: PCM P/N Must Match?

If you get 12V to any one of those pins (A, C, E, G, & H) you should get it to all. If not, there is a problem with the UHJB, fuses, or wiring from the UHJB to 10-pin connector.

Yes, the FP relay and the PCM is operating it OK.

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Old 01-17-2018, 06:04 PM   #15
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Default Re: PCM P/N Must Match?

Quote:
Originally Posted by billr View Post
If you get 12V to any one of those pins (A, C, E, G, & H) you should get it to all. If not, there is a problem with the UHJB, fuses, or wiring from the UHJB to 10-pin connector.

Yes, the FP relay and the PCM is operating it OK.

i checked the other trans fuse and those were okay but I'll double check in the daylight. I can't wait to pull up the harness and check for voltage at pin A and C again. I'll see if I can grab a picture of the harness to show how burnt it is....

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Old 01-17-2018, 07:05 PM   #16
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Default Re: PCM P/N Must Match?

Th trans connector may be cooked to junk as that is where the burned pins are. They probably can be cleaned up though. The trick is to get a clean spot on them so you can actually verify the 12v. You will not get a reading through the burned crud. You can lightly scrape a clean spot on the end so you can test.

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Old 01-17-2018, 08:14 PM   #17
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Default Re: PCM P/N Must Match?

the female receptors on the trans harness are so freakin small that I only had a small pick that would fit. So I cleaned it up as best as I could but maybe I'll run into the hardware store to see if I can grab something else to properly clean it.

I really think the wiring is okay but my problem is in the harness. Can't wait for the new harness to come in already.

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Old 01-18-2018, 12:06 AM   #18
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Default Re: PCM P/N Must Match?

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the female receptors on the trans harness are so freakin small that I only had a small pick that would fit. So I cleaned it up as best as I could but maybe I'll run into the hardware store to see if I can grab something else to properly clean it.

I really think the wiring is okay but my problem is in the harness. Can't wait for the new harness to come in already.
You can open up the wiring loom far enough to get ahold of the A &C wires and then using pliers and a block of wood force a straight pin into the wire so uoi know you have a clean contact. Do these 1 at a time and the pin hole will seal up when the pin is removed. Check both and be careful as the insulation is tough and getting a pin in is a bit tricky. Support the wire on the block so if anything other than wire gets stabbed it is the block. It sounds likely the connector is shot. That is a large harness and it is not simple to replace, much easier to just replace a bad connector.

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Old 01-22-2018, 02:34 PM   #19
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Default Re: PCM P/N Must Match?

okay, so everything was great for about a day until this rainy/damp weather moved in.

I'm now getting voltage at all pins but my negative terminal on the trans connector isn't showing 0v today and I'm starting in 2nd gear again!!! I have no codes at the moment but I have pending codes P0732, P0733, and P0783. Basically 2nd gear ratio, 3rd, and no shift from 3-4.

All fuses are good........Now should I replace the PCM?

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Old 01-22-2018, 03:02 PM   #20
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Default Re: PCM P/N Must Match?

How exactly are you checking the ground side of the connector wiring?

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