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Old 01-12-2018, 12:56 PM   #1
TimingBelt?askr
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Dizzy Is the dealership double dipping on labor?

2003 Saturn Vue V6 AWD. I brought it into the dealership and they located leaks coming from crankshaft seal and valve cover gasket. They said they might as well replace the timing belt while they're at it, okay makes sense to me.

Here's the funny part, replacing the timing belt itself was quoted at 700, replacing crankshaft seal is 600, replacing camshaft seal is 80 bucks (for mats I guess), and replacing water pump is 150 dollars. I told them the water pump was replaced a couple of years ago so they told me they'd skip that. So they said it'd be $1750 for all of that. Math doesn't add up but that's w/e, I don't think the person who called me was calculating stuff correctly or perhaps wasn't throwing in material costs? Who knows.

My question is, when changing the timing belt, aren't the crankshaft seal and camshaft seals easily accessible and wouldn't add much to labor costs? So effectively I'd be adding maybe 50 bucks in parts and 30 minutes of labor? Does this sound fishy to you guys?

Also they made it explicitly clear that I'd have to pay extra for a valve coverx2(not sure if they meant a gasket or a whole nother cover, not sure why he said 2 of them) for an extra 600 dollars.

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Old 01-12-2018, 01:38 PM   #2
Claybury
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Default Re: Is the dealership double dipping on labor?

Yes. They are possibly taking the standard hours for the two repairs and adding them. You should only have to pay x1.5 at most, not x2. I'd question them on it.
Water pump replacement doesn't have to be done, but consider a weeping pump can damage the timing belt. Might as well be safe.
I never replace just a timing belt. Have the tensioner and pulleys replaced as well. The best belt in the world fails if the pulley bearings fail.
If only one cover is leaking you can just have that cover gasket replaced. The front cover is easier to get to so the labor should be a little less.

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Old 01-12-2018, 04:20 PM   #3
TimingBelt?askr
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Default Re: Is the dealership double dipping on labor?

Here's the cost breakdown if it's more informative:

Timing belt - 145
Timing Belt Tensioner (24449772) - 390
Timing Belt Cover Gasket (24416763) - 43
Cam Shaft Seal - 21
Crank Shaft Seal - 47
Water Pump + seal - 155
Antifreeze - 24
Intake gasket set (24433146) - 350

7 hours of labor - 825

Total 2000.

Last edited by TimingBelt?askr; 01-12-2018 at 04:28 PM..

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Old 01-12-2018, 09:07 PM   #4
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Default Re: Is the dealership double dipping on labor?

Why on earth would you take a 15 year old car to the dealer for repairs?

Timing belt - 145
Timing Belt Tensioner (24449772) - 390
Timing Belt Cover Gasket (24416763) - 43

These come in kit by AC Delco for $135 at Rock Auto

AC Delco water pump another $40

Mahle intake set $70

If the seals don't leak, I just leave them be. So $250 for parts plus a little something for fluids. And you should be able to find a place that would do the labor for $400. $650-$700 OTD.

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Old 01-12-2018, 09:59 PM   #5
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Default Re: Is the dealership double dipping on labor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by atikovi View Post
Why on earth would you take a 15 year old car to the dealer for repairs?

Timing belt - 145
Timing Belt Tensioner (24449772) - 390
Timing Belt Cover Gasket (24416763) - 43

These come in kit by AC Delco for $135 at Rock Auto

AC Delco water pump another $40

Mahle intake set $70

If the seals don't leak, I just leave them be. So $250 for parts plus a little something for fluids. And you should be able to find a place that would do the labor for $400. $650-$700 OTD.
Yep. You can dispute the dealer for what looks to me like $100.
If he can find a trusted local garage, it will be hundreds cheaper.
Or there's DIY....

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Old 01-12-2018, 11:40 PM   #6
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Default Re: Is the dealership double dipping on labor?

Welcome to SaturnFans, TimingBelt?askr!
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimingBelt?askr View Post
2003 Saturn Vue V6 AWD. I brought it into the dealership and they located leaks coming from crankshaft seal and valve cover gasket. They said they might as well replace the timing belt while they're at it, okay makes sense to me.
I'd agree. This is a sensible consideration relative to the crankshaft seal replacement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimingBelt?askr View Post
Here's the funny part, replacing the timing belt itself was quoted at 700, replacing crankshaft seal is 600, replacing camshaft seal is 80 bucks (for mats I guess), and replacing water pump is 150 dollars. I told them the water pump was replaced a couple of years ago so they told me they'd skip that. So they said it'd be $1750 for all of that. Math doesn't add up but that's w/e, I don't think the person who called me was calculating stuff correctly or perhaps wasn't throwing in material costs? Who knows.
In the first sentence of this quote segment is the "double-dip." Labor to replace the timing belt, $700.00, is inclusive of work to expose the crankshaft seal (and cam seals) except for removal of the pulley (or pulleys). Therefore the $600.00 cranshaft seal service, as a separate item, is negated. Some additional labor to R&R the seal would be added, but shouldn't cost more than 1/4 of a labor hour. There are two camshaft seals and I would hope that the $80.00 amount is for replacing both seals. If the water pump was to be replaced - and I believe that it should be since the timing belt is being replaced - then there would be another small additional labor charge there as well. However, if you prefer to ignore the water pump replacement then you're certainly allowed to leave it alone. (After all, it's your vehicle.) The $700.00 amount could be including the timing belt, tensioner and idler pulleys, but it's important that you verify this. BTW, what does "(for mats I guess)" mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimingBelt?askr View Post
My question is, when changing the timing belt, aren't the crankshaft seal and camshaft seals easily accessible and wouldn't add much to labor costs?
Yes, that's correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimingBelt?askr View Post
So effectively I'd be adding maybe 50 bucks in parts and 30 minutes of labor? Does this sound fishy to you guys?
It could be that low. My hunch is that it will be more than that, but not extremely so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimingBelt?askr View Post
Also they made it explicitly clear that I'd have to pay extra for a valve coverx2(not sure if they meant a gasket or a whole nother cover, not sure why he said 2 of them) for an extra 600 dollars.
It appears that the original idea, from the service advisor's point of view, is to replace the one leaking gasket. An additional cost to replace the other valve cover gasket should be expected. Each side is considered, at least in part, a separate labor operation.

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Old 01-13-2018, 12:11 AM   #7
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Default Re: Is the dealership double dipping on labor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by atikovi View Post
Why on earth would you take a 15 year old car to the dealer for repairs?
I was taking GF's vehicle to dealership where she usually gets service.

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Old 01-13-2018, 10:22 AM   #8
Cavell
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Default Re: Is the dealership double dipping on labor?

You remove timing belt and than remove cam sprockets to replace cam seals. So, if you work "backwards", a timing belt job can be upgraded by doing the cams seals at same time for a modest increase

BUT u use the timing tool kit to lock sprockets to keep cams in "time"
You have to remove sprockets for seal job so now cams are free to turn
So motor should be at 60 btdc which does not sync with tool kit
So tech needs to keep that in mind

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