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Old 12-16-2017, 04:54 PM   #1
Alexkepa12
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1998 SL1
Default Electrical Issue...

So, I have a 1998 Sl1, A couple of days ago I accidentally killed the battery (left the headlights on) and couldn't get it started after jumping, Now I figured out I could get it started if I pressed the unlock button on my door, (yes, it sounds stupid, Bear with me) The dome light doesn't funtion on the door setting when the door is open, but it will light up if the unlock button is pressed, door open or closed. The only modification ive done recently is removing my head unit, as it crapped out on me. the car seems to drive fine, and shifts fine, but it just has this weird issue, anyone got any idea on what might be causing this fault?

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Old 12-16-2017, 05:19 PM   #2
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Default Re: Electrical Issue...

Any chance this peculiar issue is related to the starter interrupt circuit/theft deterrent relay under the steering column wiring? Using remote keyless entry enables/disables this starter relay to allow or disable power to the starter. The rke module is fused but the module may be faulty. In normal operation, using the remote to unlock doors enables the starter relay to close the starting circuit. When the ignition switch is turned to the START position, the circuit allows power to the starter to start the engine. If the rke module or relay is faulty, the starting circuit may not allow starting. Two yellow wires are the starting circuit on this relay. Bypassing it is easy if necessary.

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Old 12-16-2017, 05:19 PM   #3
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Default Re: Electrical Issue...

How many doors does the dome light work with when set to "door"?

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Old 12-16-2017, 05:32 PM   #4
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1998 SC2
Default Re: Electrical Issue...

RKE and the manual lock/unlock door key are out of sequence due to the dead battery along with the answer to the question Fetch asked above.

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Old 12-17-2017, 01:24 AM   #5
Alexkepa12
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Default Re: Electrical Issue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fetchitfido View Post
How many doors does the dome light work with when set to "door"?
None, opened all of them and none of them work.

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Old 12-17-2017, 01:25 AM   #6
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Default Re: Electrical Issue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Any chance this peculiar issue is related to the starter interrupt circuit/theft deterrent relay under the steering column wiring? Using remote keyless entry enables/disables this starter relay to allow or disable power to the starter. The rke module is fused but the module may be faulty. In normal operation, using the remote to unlock doors enables the starter relay to close the starting circuit. When the ignition switch is turned to the START position, the circuit allows power to the starter to start the engine. If the rke module or relay is faulty, the starting circuit may not allow starting. Two yellow wires are the starting circuit on this relay. Bypassing it is easy if necessary.
Thing is I don't remember ever having an Remote keyless entry, prior knewledge says it never had one.

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Old 12-17-2017, 01:28 AM   #7
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Default Re: Electrical Issue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Any chance this peculiar issue is related to the starter interrupt circuit/theft deterrent relay under the steering column wiring? Using remote keyless entry enables/disables this starter relay to allow or disable power to the starter. The rke module is fused but the module may be faulty. In normal operation, using the remote to unlock doors enables the starter relay to close the starting circuit. When the ignition switch is turned to the START position, the circuit allows power to the starter to start the engine. If the rke module or relay is faulty, the starting circuit may not allow starting. Two yellow wires are the starting circuit on this relay. Bypassing it is easy if necessary.
One thing I noticed is that if I press the unlock button, the driver door locks, though I have the lock relay pulled. (helps with the rapid lock/unlock). all other doors work as normal. and I have noticed this push button start doesn't work if the lock fuse is pulled.

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Old 12-17-2017, 01:57 AM   #8
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Default Re: Electrical Issue...

Push button start? That's not factory installed and virtually guaranteed to be the issue. Have to locate the receiver, find the model number on it and hope it's a popular one so there's a user/install guide online so you can figure out how they hacked up the factory harness to install it.

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Old 12-17-2017, 03:14 AM   #9
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Default Re: Electrical Issue...

Push button start is not a factory option on any S-series. As fetchitfido states, find out how this was wired as it may be the problem.

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Old 12-17-2017, 03:37 AM   #10
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Default Re: Electrical Issue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Push button start is not a factory option on any S-series. As fetchitfido states, find out how this was wired as it may be the problem.
Im sorry, you misheard me, I mean pushbutton as in I pushed the unlock button and started it, I was not clear in my wording, My apoligies.

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Old 12-17-2017, 05:16 PM   #11
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Default Re: Electrical Issue...

Ok but the previous suggestions still applies to Saturn's from '98-'99 having factory remote keyless entry regardless whether you have remotes or not. To be absolutely sure of factory theft deterrent wiring; look under the driver's side steering column for wiring harnesses and see if a standard 87a relay and socket are taped up into wire loom. It should be obvious when looking for it. The standard 87a relay is the same as other relays in the fuse panels, engine and console. The two model years used remotes to simultaneously lock and disable the starting circuit or unlock doors and enable the starting circuit to allow starting thru the ignition switch. It was a simple way to prevent starting. It's still used in Ions but with electronics to control the relay.

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Old 12-17-2017, 07:30 PM   #12
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Default Re: Electrical Issue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Ok but the previous suggestions still applies to Saturn's from '98-'99 having factory remote keyless entry regardless whether you have remotes or not. To be absolutely sure of factory theft deterrent wiring; look under the driver's side steering column for wiring harnesses and see if a standard 87a relay and socket are taped up into wire loom. It should be obvious when looking for it. The standard 87a relay is the same as other relays in the fuse panels, engine and console. The two model years used remotes to simultaneously lock and disable the starting circuit or unlock doors and enable the starting circuit to allow starting thru the ignition switch. It was a simple way to prevent starting. It's still used in Ions but with electronics to control the relay.
Okay. Is that under the dash pad or above the kick panel where the hook release is? I don't want to be tearing stuff apart in the wrong location.

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Old 12-17-2017, 09:43 PM   #13
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Default Re: Electrical Issue...

If a '96-'02 S-Series has power locks it has keyless entry, regardless of the key-fobs current known location. '96 has no alarm/programming functions, it's just a simple lock/unlock module.
Programming '97-'99 ('00-'02 most often requires paying a dealer 1hr labor to program): http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59192

Is the starter turning the engine over? If so, it's not the RKE module blocking the starting (it use's that hacked in relay to disable the solenoid [purple] wire to the starter).

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Old 12-17-2017, 10:41 PM   #14
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Default Re: Electrical Issue...

Alexkepa12 Take a look at he post above and answer the question as this may or may not be a RKE start interlock issue. It will be much easier to go this route than disassembling the dash as that relay is easiest to reach from above and not below. Dash cover removal can result in broken plastic tabs which is best avoided if possible.

How to get the dash cover off. http://www.differentracing.com/tech_...99cluster.html

The relay is usually sitting on top of the right side dash support just to the right of the cluster, easiest to see it through the windshield first. All of the dash wiring is up on top under the cover.

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Old 12-17-2017, 11:59 PM   #15
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Default Re: Electrical Issue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexkepa12 View Post
Okay. Is that under the dash pad or above the kick panel where the hook release is? I don't want to be tearing stuff apart in the wrong location.
Examine the drawings below.
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Old 12-18-2017, 12:56 AM   #16
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Default Re: Electrical Issue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fetchitfido View Post
If a '96-'02 S-Series has power locks it has keyless entry, regardless of the key-fobs current known location. '96 has no alarm/programming functions, it's just a simple lock/unlock module.
Programming '97-'99 ('00-'02 most often requires paying a dealer 1hr labor to program): http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59192

Is the starter turning the engine over? If so, it's not the RKE module blocking the starting (it use's that hacked in relay to disable the solenoid [purple] wire to the starter).
Unless I press the unlock button on the door, the starter does not function.

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Old 12-18-2017, 04:00 AM   #17
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Default Re: Electrical Issue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Examine the drawings below.
okay, after observing those drawings, I think what I may have done is tripped my anti-theft alarm/immobilizer and then figured out the bypass... my horn isn't going ham because its currently broken (connector wont stay attached, small fender bender) does this sound approximatly along the lines, or am I talking out my ass?

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Old 12-18-2017, 08:21 AM   #18
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Default Re: Electrical Issue...

From the factory, if you lock the car with the power locks and open the car with your key then you've activated the security lock out. At this point you have to unlock the doors with the FOB/power locks or quickly start the car before the horn sounds and it goes into security lock down.

If this is different then what you experience before the dead battery then I suspect that you lost your RKE programming and it has been set to factory default. Your programming was likely reset with the security feature turned off.

You can change the RKE programming and deactivate the security. The instructions are in the thread that fetchitfido linked; specifically post #4. The procedure has you jumping OBDC pins to get into programming mode and they using key cycles to set the programming.

...
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Old 12-18-2017, 08:53 AM   #19
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Default Re: Electrical Issue...

^^+1 It is very likely the dead battery followed by the jump starting attempts has scrambled the programming.

It is a very bad idea to allow the battery to go dead and then jump start the car, strange things might happen that are difficult to fix. The suggestion above is the proper wat to attack this issue.

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Old 12-18-2017, 11:25 AM   #20
Alexkepa12
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Default Re: Electrical Issue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by trottida View Post
From the factory, if you lock the car with the power locks and open the car with your key then you've activated the security lock out. At this point you have to unlock the doors with the FOB/power locks or quickly start the car before the horn sounds and it goes into security lock down.

If this is different then what you experience before the dead battery then I suspect that you lost your RKE programming and it has been set to factory default. Your programming was likely reset with the security feature turned off.

You can change the RKE programming and deactivate the security. The instructions are in the thread that fetchitfido linked; specifically post #4. The procedure has you jumping OBDC pins to get into programming mode and they using key cycles to set the programming.
I can for sure do a reprogram, however I do not own a fob, never have for this car, should I get a fob off Ebay or something, then reprogram it, and does anyone have an idea of where the obd2 wiring, i do not have pin 8 at the moment, I planned on replacing the whole connector and would like to get everything wired proper. Thanks a bunch.

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