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Old 11-10-2017, 03:02 PM   #1
BigCauc
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Default Elusive high idle issue - 2001 SL1

So, this is my first post and I'm hoping I can get some seasoned Saturn users to assist me in having a clue of where to look.

For months now, I have been battling this annoying high idle issue. I would have things repaired and the idle would go away, only to return again in no time. Now it is constant and everyone I've had look at it is playing the guessing game. My step father (mechanic) and another garage owner in my town have basically come to the same guess on their own. They think it may be either the Sec Air Injec. Sys. Shut Off Valve or the wiring harness that goes to it. They have looked for vacuum leaks and found none. I feel like I can hear one somewhere but I'm not sure. I did have a crack in the irreplaceable plastic vacuum line connector piece that plugs into the throttle body but that has been plugged up with heat resistant sealant (could that still be expanding enough to create a leak somehow?). My step dad also found hairline cracks in the throttle body itself but he used some metal bonding epoxy where he saw the cracks (could this not be good enough to stop a leak in the body itself?). A chip of metal was also taken out in one of the holes because a new, slightly longer screw was used when changing my TPS but my step dad used some red bonding goo to attempt to fix that. The TPS is working correctly. IAC has been replaced. I have had my intake manifold gasket replaced twice (second time because of an improper install). I have had the temperature sensor replaced, just in case.

My cars service engine light was on for a while and has been off mostly lately, which is strange because i haven't fixed the issues. Came back on for a short time one day with a couple different codes recently.

Codes:
  1. (Confirmed) P0410 Sec Air Injec Sys
  2. (Intermittent) Bank 1 O2 Sensor 2 - I believe
  3. (Newest) MAP sensor
  4. (Has appeared before and again now) System Voltage Low

The garage owner I know has said he did a check to see if it was the Intake Manifold Gasket and it wasn't. Whatever he did, I don't think it required him to actually look at the gasket. I know there is another way to check it so I trust him but I'm still not sure if it was accurate. The car sits at around 1200 stopped. It does fluctuate a bit. The idle is sometimes at 2000 and sometimes 2500 in park.

Another issue that may be related somehow is the car jerks while accelerating often now. It feels like it's losing power or misfiring, maybe? The car goes forward as if it starts to slow down immediately and letting go of the pedal seems to help. It's a semi-rapid jerk and feeling of struggle most times if I stay on the pedal. This very same phenomena actually has kicked the car out of cruise control. Normally that should only go off with the button or touching the break.

I thought a long explanation would help someone imagine the problem if anyone understands the systems well enough. I am not a car guy but if I had time to be one, I would. I hope to get some good advice here. Any unclear parts in my texts, please let me know and I'll clarify if I can.

I love this car and want to keep it running smooth and on the road for as long as possible. 172,000 miles so far.

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Old 11-10-2017, 03:10 PM   #2
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2001 SL1
Default Re: Elusive high idle issue - 2001 SL1

Anyone check for valve cover seal issues?
With engine idling, using a spray can of brake cleaner, or the like, spray along the entire outer rim of the valve cover. If there is a vacuum leak, the idle will SOAR....then calm down a bit until resprayed. If so, it would mean a simple gasket replacement job.

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Old 11-10-2017, 03:27 PM   #3
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Default Re: Elusive high idle issue - 2001 SL1

I asked and he did not recall. I will return to this forum when either me or my mechanic does this.

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Old 11-10-2017, 04:20 PM   #4
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Default Re: Elusive high idle issue - 2001 SL1

Also, I don't know why but I cant get the quote button to work so I can reply directly to a comment. I don't know if that sends the commenter a notification or not and want to keep updating this and getting replies as I go.

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Old 11-11-2017, 03:09 AM   #5
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2002 SL2
Default Re: Elusive high idle issue - 2001 SL1

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCauc View Post
.... They think it may be either the Sec Air Injec. Sys. Shut Off Valve or the wiring harness that goes to it. ....

My cars service engine light was on for a while and has been off mostly lately, which is strange because i haven't fixed the issues. Came back on for a short time one day with a couple different codes recently.

Codes:
  1. (Confirmed) P0410 Sec Air Injec Sys
  2. (Intermittent) Bank 1 O2 Sensor 2 - I believe
  3. (Newest) MAP sensor
  4. (Has appeared before and again now) System Voltage Low

Another issue that may be related somehow is the car jerks while accelerating often now. It feels like it's losing power or misfiring, maybe? The car goes forward as if it starts to slow down immediately and letting go of the pedal seems to help. It's a semi-rapid jerk and feeling of struggle most times if I stay on the pedal. This very same phenomena actually has kicked the car out of cruise control. Normally that should only go off with the button or touching the break....
My guess with the high idle would be that the small diameter hose going from the intake manifold to the diverter valve has been cracked or torn. It wraps around the right (passenger's) side of the cam cover. I have had this crack before and it will do two things: 1) Increase the idle speed, and 2) trigger a P0410 code.

As far as the car "jerking" sporadically and the CC cutting out, I would guess it is a faulty crank position sensor (CKP). I had this happen before also...on the same car, too. It only happened now and then, but eventually the car would not even start after the engine was warm. Then finally one day the engine cutout while idling at an intersection. This will NOT trigger a code most times. The CKP sensor is located directly above the starter. Skinny hands and fingers may be required to replace it without removing the starter. It is a $20 part.

...
'97 SL1, 136K, Auto, Mint Green (SOLD 146K)
'99 SL2, 126K, Auto, Silver (SOLD 149K)
'97 SL1, 136K, Manual, Burgundy (Gifted to Brother 138K)
'02 SL2, 149K, Auto, Light Gray/Silver

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Old 11-14-2017, 10:46 AM   #6
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Default Re: Elusive high idle issue - 2001 SL1

Quote:
Originally Posted by toggenburg View Post
Anyone check for valve cover seal issues?
With engine idling, using a spray can of brake cleaner, or the like, spray along the entire outer rim of the valve cover. If there is a vacuum leak, the idle will SOAR....then calm down a bit until resprayed. If so, it would mean a simple gasket replacement job.
It turns out that a valve cover seal won't cause a vacuum leak but will cause an oil leak. It needs replacing but I can get that fixed after high idle is gone. I saw another thread where someone said the manual recommended checking the injector wiring harness for dirty/loose connections. I'm seeing if he can do that.

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Old 11-14-2017, 10:52 AM   #7
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Default Re: Elusive high idle issue - 2001 SL1

Quote:
Originally Posted by bachands View Post
My guess with the high idle would be that the small diameter hose going from the intake manifold to the diverter valve has been cracked or torn. It wraps around the right (passenger's) side of the cam cover. I have had this crack before and it will do two things: 1) Increase the idle speed, and 2) trigger a P0410 code.

As far as the car "jerking" sporadically and the CC cutting out, I would guess it is a faulty crank position sensor (CKP). I had this happen before also...on the same car, too. It only happened now and then, but eventually the car would not even start after the engine was warm. Then finally one day the engine cutout while idling at an intersection. This will NOT trigger a code most times. The CKP sensor is located directly above the starter. Skinny hands and fingers may be required to replace it without removing the starter. It is a $20 part.
The small diameter hose you mentioned is apparently not a problem. He checked. Nothing happened. Any other suggestions? Added detail, if necessary, is that the car will sometimes go right into high idle as soon as I start it. Normally it's at 1200 or 1300. Occasionally it will jump up and down in the middle of idling in park but will ultimately settle at the higher idle.

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Old 11-14-2017, 11:06 AM   #8
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2001 SC2
Default Re: Elusive high idle issue - 2001 SL1

With all the redneck repairs to the TB I'm surprised no ones suggested swapping it out just to get a non-broken one in there. Should be swappable from '96-'02 SOHC and '96-'99 DOHC (earlier DOHC ones will bolt on, but the vac harness on top is wrong).

What RPM is it at with the IACV fully seated in the TB and the IACV port blocked off? Should be 700rpm max, if it's over that and all vacuum hose's are leak free replace the TB.

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Old 11-14-2017, 12:52 PM   #9
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Default Re: Elusive high idle issue - 2001 SL1

Quote:
Originally Posted by fetchitfido View Post
With all the redneck repairs to the TB I'm surprised no ones suggested swapping it out just to get a non-broken one in there. Should be swappable from '96-'02 SOHC and '96-'99 DOHC (earlier DOHC ones will bolt on, but the vac harness on top is wrong).

What RPM is it at with the IACV fully seated in the TB and the IACV port blocked off? Should be 700rpm max, if it's over that and all vacuum hose's are leak free replace the TB.
I will test that and get back to this forum.

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