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Old 10-26-2017, 10:44 PM   #1
rgrafton
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2002 SC1
Default When buying a saturn s series what should you look for?

I am looking to buy another Saturn. I currently own a 1994 Saturn SL and the subframe is rusted pretty bad on the driver's side and I may only have a few more years left. Plus the interior has fallen apart over the past few years as well.

I just want to know what i should look for and look out for when buying one of these cars. I think rust on the subframe is a big one and of course a good visual inspection of everything and fluids... Is there anything specific I should be wary of with certain years/models?

I am currently looking at a 2002 SC1 and will probably go test drive it tomorrow.
here's a link: https://baltimore.craigslist.org/cto...333002565.html

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1994 Saturn SL SOHC 5speed w/130k miles on engine (250k+ miles on car, tranny...etc.)

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Old 10-27-2017, 05:52 AM   #2
Waiex191
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Default Re: When buying a saturn s series what should you look for?

Rust is the big issue - but you have already figured that out. The car looks pretty nice in the pics, and is a 5 speed to boot. I'm in favor of the most basic cars - no power locks, windows, sunroofs, etc. No matter what the year, if it isn't installed it can't break.

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Old 10-27-2017, 06:50 AM   #3
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1998 SW2
Default Re: When buying a saturn s series what should you look for?

Your CL seller seems honest because there is actually a picture of the driverís seat.
Count on the control bar being rusty. Order a replacement control bar.
Count on the stick shift mechanism components being worn out.
Count on the intake manifold gasket leaking. Is that true for 3rd gen?
Bring a code reader with you.
There is no rust showing on the running board?
That is a lot of value for $1150 !

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Old 10-27-2017, 08:31 AM   #4
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Default Re: When buying a saturn s series what should you look for?

I have a " bit" of experience - as my SO and I just bought Saturn #14.


Do yourself a favor. Go to Walmart or other big box store and buy a cheap wall mirror, and affix a 3 foot handle to one corner.

You use it with a bright flashlight as an inspection mirror. ( similar to what security personnel use for checking undersides of vehicles for bombs or contraband)

The S series rusts out in pretty specific areas as a rule - although heavy rust localized to only one area sometimes occurs.

You found area 1 - the drivers side subframe. ( I have yet to see a passengers side rust out.. Oil from the filter being removed at oil change preserves the subframe.)

#2 - the sheet metal under the mounting bolts of the trailing arms for the rear suspension. These are just forward of the rear wheels.

3. The frame" rails" that run forward of #2, to the back of the subframe. These are the structures that resemble a section of 2 inch square tubing and provide the bodies stiffness.

4. The joined seams at the back seat floorboards. I have seen the carpet hanging out... The body is only single thickness in this area......

If any seller tells you it " just needs some welding up" - laugh and run, do not walk - away....

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Old 10-27-2017, 09:53 AM   #5
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Default Re: When buying a saturn s series what should you look for?

[^ ^ ^ great stuff!

I've seen rust on the door sill under the 3rd door on a few coupes

Also, body seams in the rear quarters can leak, leading to rust in the spare tire area (the fiber board cover also gets warped, carpet mildews, etc)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bumpdraft View Post
Your CL seller seems honest because there is actually a picture of the driverís seat.
+1, lots of times, folks try and hide the flaws
Seats are easily replaced
Quote:
Count on the intake manifold gasket leaking. Is that true for 3rd gen?
I thought it was specific to 3rd gen SOHC cars
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=115925

I always liked that orange/copper color

AC works?
I like cruise control, personal preference

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Old 10-28-2017, 12:32 AM   #6
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Default Re: When buying a saturn s series what should you look for?

Ok. So I went and test drove it. I only briefly opened the driver side door and 3rd door and upon quick inspection did not see any rust. I forgot to check other side and also could not get under it to check rust on the subframe...

here's there run down...
  • Starts no problem, Little bit of a lifter tick on start (versus my '94 which doesn't do that.. which I found interesting)
  • Tires are OK, have OK tread, not great, not bad. However upon quick inspection of outer side wall, I saw some cracks on some (dry rot)
  • Clutch grabs pretty high... compared to my '94 which is a pretty new clutch. it may have some life, but I'm not sure how much life...
  • Brakes feel OK, probably have a reasonable amount of life left
  • Shifts OK, not as smooth as my '94, but that's probably because I flushed her out and put in Amsoil stuff that was recommended on this forum
  • Service Engine light is on... didn't have code reader with me to see what it was.
  • Temp did not get above 1/4 mark, so ECTS and Thermostat need to be replaced.
  • Block looks like may have slow leak from valve cover (dark all around valve cover)... or may have been leaking at some pointt
  • Exhaust manifold gasket MAY be leaking, but I don't know... It kind of smelled like it may have been
  • The car has One owner, the guy selling bought it from an auction or something
  • A/C and heat seemed to work fine.
  • Interior was in good shape. I liked it. (My '94 SL is completely falling apart inside. Dash is hanging because bracket broke, dash is cracked in many places, center dash trim is broken and hangs loose, odometer doesn't work, headliner hanging everywhere.)
  • OH yeah.. one last thing -- I heard a noise that went with speed in the rear passenger side wheel, I think it's the wheel bearing


Do you guys still think the $1,150 price is still good. I think i should shoot a lower offer. Honestly I'd want to get a set of cheap new tires before winter and I'd want to replace the thermostat and ECTS and flush the coolant. Also worried clutch may need replacement at any time. I'm hoping I can get a year or more out of it though.. and I have a feeling I will be able to since I'm very easy on clutches.

...
1994 Saturn SL SOHC 5speed w/130k miles on engine (250k+ miles on car, tranny...etc.)

2010 Subaru WRX Sedan WRB 75k miles

Last edited by rgrafton; 10-28-2017 at 12:40 AM..

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Old 10-28-2017, 12:36 AM   #7
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2002 SC1
Default Re: When buying a saturn s series what should you look for?

I wish I saw all of your guys' replies before I went to check it out.. But I think I have enough to make a initial decision. If I decide to proceed and I make a deal with the seller, I'll just make it clear that there are a few more things I need to inspect specifically the undercarriage for rust before closing on the deal.

...
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2010 Subaru WRX Sedan WRB 75k miles

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Old 10-28-2017, 05:47 AM   #8
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Default Re: When buying a saturn s series what should you look for?

The clutch changed to a different style in the GEN3's and has a lighter less mechanical feel to it. This may be what you're noticing.

...
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Old 10-28-2017, 07:52 AM   #9
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Default Re: When buying a saturn s series what should you look for?

Hm interesting; It felt similar to mine other than the engage point

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Old 10-28-2017, 08:46 AM   #10
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Default Re: When buying a saturn s series what should you look for?

Wheel bearing is bolt-on. As long as the 4 bolts come out without issue the rear wheel bearing job as about as hard as changing a tire...given the bolts are 10mm head and take a significant amount of torque to undo they don't always come out nice however.

I had a 3rd gen SC2 for a couple months...the clutch sucked, the seats sucked, the dash sucked (even tried a L-Series cluster, still sucked) and the cradle wasn't any good. Never again...lol Can't imagine a SC1 that starts out with worse seats would be any better...

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Old 10-28-2017, 10:12 AM   #11
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Default Re: When buying a saturn s series what should you look for?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fetchitfido View Post
Wheel bearing is bolt-on. As long as the 4 bolts come out without issue the rear wheel bearing job as about as hard as changing a tire...given the bolts are 10mm head and take a significant amount of torque to undo they don't always come out nice however.

I had a 3rd gen SC2 for a couple months...the clutch sucked, the seats sucked, the dash sucked (even tried a L-Series cluster, still sucked) and the cradle wasn't any good. Never again...lol Can't imagine a SC1 that starts out with worse seats would be any better...
Really? So you donít like the 3rd gens at all huh? What all sucked about it? Just didnít like it?

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Old 10-28-2017, 10:44 AM   #12
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Default Re: When buying a saturn s series what should you look for?

The cluster back-lighting only worked with a "wack", though the L-Series cluster required less frequent "wacking". The seats, which everyone claims are better than previous generations, were uncomfortable compared to a '97 SC1 which was worse than all the '93-'97 SC2/SL2's I've had. Couldn't tell if my foot was on the clutch pedal or not, because of this it was hard to tell if the clutch was slipping which I'm told is a 3rd gen thing because they decreased the pedal effort.
The engine cradle wasn't really "because 3rd gen" but it's interesting that it was more rusted out than the 1st and 2nd gens I've had that were rusted out.

Don't remember if it had power locks or not, didn't get a FOB with it so if it did it'd have been $30+ for the FOB plus a $100+ dealer fee to be programmed to the car (because it's a "GM Saturn" S-Series, not a "Saturn" S-Series).

Lots of people have better luck with 3rd gens than me (and therefor a better opinion of them)...but I'll let the scrapyards take the next one(s) I see.

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Old 10-28-2017, 01:24 PM   #13
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Default Re: When buying a saturn s series what should you look for?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fetchitfido View Post
The cluster back-lighting only worked with a "wack", though the L-Series cluster required less frequent "wacking". The seats, which everyone claims are better than previous generations, were uncomfortable compared to a '97 SC1 which was worse than all the '93-'97 SC2/SL2's I've had. Couldn't tell if my foot was on the clutch pedal or not, because of this it was hard to tell if the clutch was slipping which I'm told is a 3rd gen thing because they decreased the pedal effort.
The engine cradle wasn't really "because 3rd gen" but it's interesting that it was more rusted out than the 1st and 2nd gens I've had that were rusted out.

Don't remember if it had power locks or not, didn't get a FOB with it so if it did it'd have been $30+ for the FOB plus a $100+ dealer fee to be programmed to the car (because it's a "GM Saturn" S-Series, not a "Saturn" S-Series).

Lots of people have better luck with 3rd gens than me (and therefor a better opinion of them)...but I'll let the scrapyards take the next one(s) I see.
Iíve had all kinds of issues with my Ď94 SL dash including needing to whack it to get the speedometer to work on cold days as well as whack it to get the lights to come on behind the gauges lol

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Old 10-29-2017, 10:47 PM   #14
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Default Re: When buying a saturn s series what should you look for?

I would check the motor mounts and ask if the shifter cable has ever been replaced. Apparently the cable is supposed to last about 100k miles.

Shifter cable Part #
21005846

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Old 10-30-2017, 06:30 AM   #15
Waiex191
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Default Re: When buying a saturn s series what should you look for?

My cables have nearly 206,000 on them. But I would not worry too much about parts that are easy to change. That is part of the joy of owning an old car - stuff breaks!

...
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Rebuilt at 204,067 September 2017
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Old 10-30-2017, 10:43 AM   #16
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Default Re: When buying a saturn s series what should you look for?

The seller pulled the code -- it's p0341 camshaft position sensor

I'm hoping it's just plugs and wires.

...
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Old 10-30-2017, 12:10 PM   #17
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Default Re: When buying a saturn s series what should you look for?

Should I consider doing a compression test before purchasing? or take the chance and just replace spark plugs and wires and assume the code will not come back?

...
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Old 10-30-2017, 01:14 PM   #18
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Default Re: When buying a saturn s series what should you look for?

compression test is always good, don't know if the owner will let you do that, though, and it does tend to run the battery down

I've never had to whack my 3rd gen so that might be specific to that car, or I got lucky

Currently running a Pontiac Torrent gauge cluster right now. Pics here:
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...postcount=5201
I might look for an Equinox cluster; I've read those have a teal or turquoise color dash

I really don't like the clutch feel and plan on swapping out the hydraulics on my 2nd gen to get a normal feel. The other thing I noticed - I occasionally catch the tip of my shoe on the bottom of the clutch pedal. I never did that on my 2nd gen, and I've noticed a few "I pulled the rod out of my clutch" threads where it was a 3rd gen owner, who hooked their shoe on the clutch pedal too many times.

One of these days, I will check to see if it is mounted higher or if they used a shorter pad or something.

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Old 10-30-2017, 08:32 PM   #19
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Default Re: When buying a saturn s series what should you look for?

i bought it. Will be swapping out spark plugs and wires with the one's from my SL to see if the SES light stays out.

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Old 10-31-2017, 10:24 AM   #20
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Default Re: When buying a saturn s series what should you look for?

Congrats on the new car, looking forward to hearing more.

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