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Old 09-29-2017, 04:32 PM   #1
Chaz9496
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Default A/C Liquid Line Replacement

Has anyone replaced the (high pressure side) A/C line ? That thing sucks trying to route it back on the side of the engine on the passenger side. The line to the compressor won't go back in under the motor mount area where it's supposed to connect to the compressor line in the front. The turns in the pipes all get caught on something and I can't route it back where it's supposed to go due to the 2 lines go separate places. I had to pull in back out to keep from ruining the new line. I can't find any reference to this online or YouTube of course, only the low side and that's the luck I have with this finding something on it. Do you start from under the front and run it thru by the wheel well towards the fire wall or from the the top side to the front ? My repair manual doesn't cover this replacement. Thanks for any info.

Last edited by Chaz9496; 09-29-2017 at 04:37 PM.. Reason: Added Comment

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Old 09-29-2017, 04:48 PM   #2
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Default Re: A/C Liquid Line Replacement

Did you remove the lines and now attempting to fit replacements in? Were the damaged lines cut to make it easier to remove or did you fish the lines out? Describe the lines again. Without a picture, I can only go by service manual drawings. Its not unusual to find zero information as this is advanced repairs covered in service manuals and not free info unless someone posted pictures or videos on their own to share. Service manuals are costly to print and distribute to dealers while personal copies are well worth the cost for access to everything short of using GM's Tech II scantool/programmer.

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Old 09-29-2017, 05:41 PM   #3
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Default Re: A/C Liquid Line Replacement

I cut them out with a grinder cutting tool. One line to the compressor runs under the engine body frame below the passenger side to compressor and the other to the pressure switch runs above the frame to the other side of the compressor. I really can't describe it any better. I can't post pictures because I don't have any lines in it right now. I plugged off the expansion valve to keep out any dirt from entering the evaporator. I don't want to put a hole in the line by grinding it on the block trying to run it thru. It's already scratched up trying on the first attempt to run the bottom line thru. Sorry if I'm confusing anybody but that's how the lines run. I can probably figure something out to how it goes in there. The best way may be to take the wheel and well cover off and run it thru the wheel well.

Last edited by Chaz9496; 09-29-2017 at 05:47 PM.. Reason: Added Comment

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Old 09-29-2017, 07:55 PM   #4
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Default Re: A/C Liquid Line Replacement

Pm me an email address with car info. I'll send you service manual procedures, presuming this is the evap line.

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Old 09-30-2017, 12:04 AM   #5
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Default Re: A/C Liquid Line Replacement

This was the hardest part of the A/C repair for me. I removed the intake box and might have removed a few other things, can't remember if motor mount had to come out.. but it was a real pain.
You can carefully bend the lines at the rubber hose portions. I was able to eventually get everything back into place without damage and it has been running strong since.

Link to my thread
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=206428

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Old 09-30-2017, 09:38 AM   #6
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Default Re: A/C Liquid Line Replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Pm me an email address with car info. I'll send you service manual procedures, presuming this is the evap line.
I see you have a V6 so the A/C lines are totally different than the 2.2. At least they were on the 3.0 at the yard I saw. I know that's not what your inquiring tho. Yup, the evap line.

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Old 09-30-2017, 01:17 PM   #7
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Default Re: A/C Liquid Line Replacement

A Hallmark Card slogan "When you care to send the very best", I try to send appropriate info related to the issue.

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Old 10-01-2017, 08:02 PM   #8
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Default Re: A/C Liquid Line Replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz9496 View Post
Has anyone replaced the (high pressure side) A/C line ? That thing sucks trying to route it back on the side of the engine on the passenger side. The line to the compressor won't go back in under the motor mount area where it's supposed to connect to the compressor line in the front. The turns in the pipes all get caught on something and I can't route it back where it's supposed to go due to the 2 lines go separate places. I had to pull in back out to keep from ruining the new line. I can't find any reference to this online or YouTube of course, only the low side and that's the luck I have with this finding something on it. Do you start from under the front and run it thru by the wheel well towards the fire wall or from the the top side to the front ? My repair manual doesn't cover this replacement. Thanks for any info.
I recently replaced the 2 line set (liquid line & suction line) going to & from the TXV on the evaporator coil. Is my posted picture the line set you are having issues with? In my case the pipe clamp had rusted to the aluminum pipe just below the air filter box and a pinhole leak developed. NOTE: BELOW IS WHAT I DID ON MY V6 L SERIES SATURN.

Yes it was a royal pita getting the 2 pipes out. The FSM procedures IMO were too generic and not very specific on how to get this convoluted mess of bends of 2 pipes out of the vehicle. After removing all the pipe clamps, the liquid/suction pipe block on the firewall and the 2 line fittings (the front needs to be lifted up to reach some of the clamps and the plastic splash shield underneath needs to be removed). I also removed the passenger side wheel to gain better access to the larger suction pipe. The 2 line assembly is removed from the top of the engine compartment on the driver’s side – see pic. I was able to do this without cutting any lines. The pipes need to be carefully twisted and turned so the various bends can clear the many obstacles that are in the way. The large suction side muffler can with the service port and large J bends was especially troublesome, but it will eventually clear. Be careful with large cable harnesses that will be in the way. Brute force is not the way to go. I did not have an assistant, but felt one would be helpful – one down below in the wheel well pushing and turning the pipes, while the other up near the firewall gently pulling, twisting the ends of the lines while watching for snags.

When you get these pipes out, try to remember how you maneuvered them out if possible. I was so caught up in the heat of the moments I did not take detailed pictures. Anyway, the new pipes go in the same way in reverse as the old ones were removed. Be certain any wire harnesses, fuel pipes, etc are positioned in the same way (either close to the firewall or on the other side of the a/c pipes toward the front). Also, the pipe end fittings should be well protected against dirt, nicks and scratches while maneuvering them in. Yes as mentioned, the rubber sections on the hoses near the evaporator block will need to be bent and/or twisted at times. It took me about 6 hours wrestling with this bent pipe puzzle to remove & replace.

Even though my engine is the 3.0L V6, I noticed on the RockAuto web site these evaporator pipes for both the 2.2L L4 cylinder and the V6 share the same ACDELCO part number 22714739. The routing could be slightly different between the two, but the pipes are the same.

To date, I have replaced every a/c pipe, except the short all aluminum pipe that bolts to the suction port on the compressor. They all eventually sprung leaks.

Hope this helps somewhat.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Removal of Pipes.JPG (196.1 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg Corroded Leaking Liquid Line Clamp Area.JPG (168.9 KB, 7 views)

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Old 10-15-2017, 06:50 PM   #9
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Default Re: A/C Liquid Line Replacement

BTW, on the second try the line went back in just fine not removing any panels under the front, just the motor mount. Must just have to be smarter than the lines. Now 2nd, now I have the lines back in and vacuumed the system out and was holding pressure fine at "0" after 15 min with the gauges hooked up. The system won't fill with refrig and the compressor doesn't come on now. It did before the line was replaced. I'm suspecting the pressure switch because the one on the new (old) line was used. I also changed out the old shrader valve with a new one. The refrig won't suck out of the can and freezes but the line is getting cold only to a point. On another note, how do you test the high pressure switch with a multimeter when there's 3 wires ? I assume one's to the fan. Thanks for any suggestions why this might be happening just after changing the lines when it worked before.

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Old 10-15-2017, 08:13 PM   #10
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Default Re: A/C Liquid Line Replacement

From the service manual;

A/C Refrigerant Pressure Sensor
The A/C refrigerant pressure sensor is a 3-wire piezoelectric pressure transducer. A 5-volt reference, low reference, and signal circuits enable the sensor to operate. The A/C pressure signal can be between 0-5 volts. When the A/C refrigerant pressure is low, the signal value is near 0 volts. When the A/C refrigerant pressure is high, the signal value is near 5 volts.

The A/C refrigerant pressure sensor protects the A/C system from operating when an excessively high or low pressure condition exists. The PCM/ECM disables the compressor clutch under the following conditions:

*A/C high side pressure is more than 2900-2997 kPa (420-435 psi). The clutch will be enabled after the A/C high side pressure decreases to less than 1998 kPa (290 psi).
*A/C low side pressure is less than 180 kPa (26 psi). The clutch will be enabled after the A/C low side pressure increases to more than 248 kPa (36 psi).


As you can understand, the transducer measures pressures and sends signals to the ecm. The ecm determines whether or not to run the compressor. Excessive pressures or lower than expected pressures disables compressor operation to prevent a violent rupture/explosion from extreme high pressures or if loss of refrigerant will cause compressor self destruction. Refrigerant move lubricating oil and without refrigerant, lubrication won't occur and compressor destruction occurs quickly.

When replacing lines, using new seals and evacuating the system with zero leak back, refilling with refrigerant should be easy. At least half a can and often an entire can (12ozs) doesn't need compressor operation when filling thru high and low side valves. Are you sure you have all valves opened during this phase? With both sides opened to gauges and the center valve, refrigerant flows into both sides quickly. There should be no restrictions anywhere whether a system is new, opened, or repaired. The pressure sensor is 'T' fitted so it does not interfere with refrigerant flow. Discharging refrigerant, depending on flow rate, can sometimes create freezing in the can and surrounding lines (temperature/pressure physics).

When refilling a repaired system, attention to details is important. With single disposable cans of r134a, one can (at least half of it) is sufficient to pressurize a system to above the minimum sensed by the pressure sensor to allow compressor operation. A 12 oz can doesn't need compressor operation to empty it. However, once half or the next can is connected for system filling and compressor operation begins, its vitally important to close off the high side gauge valve. Do not overlook this step as its important to have the high side gauge valve shut off. This prevents compressor pressures from flowing between the two open gauge valves and allows normal compressor operation. This also prevents inadvertently having high pressure on a running compressor feed into an open can connected to the center line and can result in an explosion. I'm not certain of what pressure is needed to explode a can of r134a but imagining anything over 150 psi on a working ac system feeding pressure to a can of r134a may result in unanticipated circumstances for injury or death. If I'm not mistaken, all 12oz cans of refrigerant have a dimpled bottom; a safety feature in case of leaving a can in the sun, heat or in situations of untrained ac maintenance, feeding high pressures to a can will rupture the dimpled can bottom to release refrigerant quickly at lower pressures, reducing or eliminating the consequences of high explosive consequences. Dimpled cans weren't made when r12 was the refrigerant of choice years ago.

The first can emptied into a system can be done a little faster by flipping it upside down to flow liquid refrigerant into both sides of the system. Adding some heat from swirling the can in a bucket of warm water can help transfer the cold created in the can as it empties its contents by warming it on water will maintain can pressure (around 75-85 psi). Don't use hot water as this will raise can pressures too high and isn't safe. When I repaired my system, I emptied the first can in about 2-5 minutes with time wasted immersing the can into warm water, swirling it, lifting it out and inverting the can to hasten moving liquid refrigerant thru high and low side valves. When the can emptied, low and high side valves were closed, can removed, second can screwed onto the can tap, connected to centerline, tap valve opened, lines purged of air using refrigerant from the can, and only the low side valve opened. AC turned on, compressor running and fed the second can into the low side with rpm raised above idle to have compressor create more suction. The second can is not inverted as liquid refrigerant isn't compressible and can damage a compressor. Swishing the can in warm water adds heat to maintain can pressure until it empties out. The second can may take another 5 minutes.

Resistance to can contents from flowing into a system; tap valve restriction, hose ends constricted, valve depressor or schrader valve restriction.

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Old 10-17-2017, 04:40 PM   #11
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Default Re: A/C Liquid Line Replacement

Is the compressor grounded to the body on L Series or by the ground and positive wire to the clutch or is it only the one wire connections that are body grounded ? I bench tested the compressor clutch and the clutch did not engage direct to the battery using a 2 wire + & - source.

Last edited by Chaz9496; 10-17-2017 at 04:42 PM.. Reason: Added Comment

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Old 10-17-2017, 05:03 PM   #12
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Default Re: A/C Liquid Line Replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz9496 View Post
Is the compressor grounded to the body on L Series or by the ground and positive wire to the clutch or is it only the one wire connections that are body grounded ? I bench tested the compressor clutch and the clutch did not engage direct to the battery using a 2 wire + & - source.
Sorry, let me rephrase this. I bench tested the compressor on the car and it didn't engage, not off of the car. What I'm asking is if the compressor needs grounded on a 2 wire connection if I was to bench test one off the car.

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Old 10-17-2017, 06:06 PM   #13
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Default Re: A/C Liquid Line Replacement

I checked my clutch coil with an Ohm meter. Disconnect the plug and check across the two pins on the clutch. It should be more than one Ohm, probably 30-50 I don’t have my manuals with me. If it is open it needs a new coil. You can replace these parts with the compressor still attached to the engine.

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Old 10-17-2017, 08:18 PM   #14
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Default Re: A/C Liquid Line Replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz9496 View Post
Is the compressor grounded to the body on L Series or by the ground and positive wire to the clutch or is it only the one wire connections that are body grounded ? I bench tested the compressor clutch and the clutch did not engage direct to the battery using a 2 wire + & - source.
Your L200 compressor uses a wired ground (not frame ground). Two wire connection, polarity not important. If you wired directly, 12 volts to both wires, the clutch coil should pull in with a metallic click. Use battery power. If the clutch doesn't power up, the clutch coil is blown.

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Old 10-17-2017, 10:00 PM   #15
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Default Re: A/C Liquid Line Replacement

Both wires hot ? I thought one was ground ? When I use a test light only one side of the plug lights, the green wire. The black wire has no power with the system on. From what I've seen on YouTube videos they hook up the compressor coil jumpers to neg & pos on the battery when the compressor won't come on to draw in refrig. I know you shouldn't attempt that if the system has a problem. I don't remember if it was a single wire connection or two wire tho. I would assume it was a two wire connection. I can just do a resistance test too.

Last edited by Chaz9496; 10-17-2017 at 10:01 PM.. Reason: Added Comment

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Old 10-17-2017, 10:50 PM   #16
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Default Re: A/C Liquid Line Replacement

Two wire connector, 12v direct; one positive, one negative. Polarity doesn't matter with coils. If battery power doesn't power up the clutch coil, you can perform a resistance test to those two terminals with a multimeter. Resistance is very low, 2-3 ohms. Pretest your meter first by touching both probes together and ensure 0.00-0.1 ohms or as close to zero resistance between probes. Worn probes will have resistance and scraping probes together will change resistance values and should remain well below 0.1 ohm for reasonable accuracy.

If resistance isn't displayed when measuring the clutch coil (open or infinite), the coil is blown.

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Old 10-18-2017, 09:43 AM   #17
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Default Re: A/C Liquid Line Replacement

Did a resistance test on the compressor and it showed .02 show I'm assuming the coil is good. I would think so because it kicked on before I changed the lines. So as of now the system won't take in any refrig so the compressor won't operate so I'm at a brick wall. Not that I need an A/C right now but it sure comes in handy when I need a defroster. The only thing I can think of is the high pressure switch. Don't know, I'm not a mechanic so I can't do much except what I do know about A/C and electrical systems. I guess I can also do a resistance test on the switch too. After that I have no idea why it's not working anymore. Possibly a clogged line ? I've seen on YouTube that can happen as well. There was pag oil in the lines when I removed them so probably not.

Last edited by Chaz9496; 10-18-2017 at 09:47 AM.. Reason: Added Comment

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Old 10-18-2017, 10:20 AM   #18
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Default Re: A/C Liquid Line Replacement

Chaz9496, there's nothing broken in the transducer/pressure switch. As an electronic sensor, all it does is measure pressure. Below 36 psi, it sends a voltage the ECM determines as too low to run the compressor so the ECM disables power to it. If your gauges show above 36 psi, the pressure sensor sends the correct voltage and the engine determines its ok to power the compressor. AC pressure sensors rarely fail and are blamed for compressors unable to run when it's the opposite where pressures are below the minimum where the sensor detected it, sends the signals and the ECM determines pressures are too low to operate. The pressure sensor is designed to prevent compressor damage and does not prevent compressors from running. It is merely a sensor to measure pressures and sends varying voltages in relation to pressures for the ECM to determine whether or not to run the compressor.

0.02 ohm is basically a short. Did you touch the two probes together and see what resistance is between probes? Is the multimeter set at the lowest resistance range or is yours auto ranging? Coil resistance should be between 2-5 ohms, not 0.02.

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Old 10-18-2017, 12:59 PM   #19
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Default Re: A/C Liquid Line Replacement

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.......If your gauges show above 36 psi, the pressure sensor sends a corresponding voltage and the ECM determines its ok to power the compressor..
When refilling a repaired system, refrigerant pressurizes no different from pressurized spray cans of paint. The cans are shipped ready to spray and when not used, remains pressurized for as long as the unused paint remains in the can. AC systems are exactly the same, holding refrigerant under pressure even when ac isn't used. Standby pressures vary with ambient temperature but always above 36 psi.

If you cannot refill this system with the first can, something is preventing refrigerant flow. It's not the pressure switch. Review all that you've done. Suggestions were given to possible areas blocking refrigerant flow.

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Old 10-18-2017, 02:20 PM   #20
Chaz9496
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Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Tornado Alley
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2001 L-Series 2.2L Sedan
2003 L-Series 2.2L Sedan
Default Re: A/C Liquid Line Replacement

must have been 2 ohms then, not .02. My spare (used) compressor in the garage showed 0. I have it set on 20 on the meter, the lowest setting. I'm pretty sure there was a 0 before the point then 2 on the display. I did test the probes but don't remember what I got. There was some reading. I'm bad at multimeter testing. I'm not used to it at all. maybe I'm incorrect. If so, I maybe should post a photo to show what I'm actually getting at the coil and the probes. I'm only limited to what I can test with these. lol. Had to laugh about it. I'm going to cry next if not. Yes, old men DO cry, only if need be.

Last edited by Chaz9496; 10-18-2017 at 02:30 PM.. Reason: Added Comment

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