SaturnFans.com
what's new (beta) - classifieds - forums - photos


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn Vue > 2008 Vue
Register FAQ Members List Groups Calendar Chat Room Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-21-2017, 04:29 PM   #1
lord_varon
Advanced Member
lord_varon is a glorious beacon of lightlord_varon is a glorious beacon of lightlord_varon is a glorious beacon of lightlord_varon is a glorious beacon of lightlord_varon is a glorious beacon of lightlord_varon is a glorious beacon of light
 
lord_varon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 681
 

2008 VUE 3.6L
Default 3.6 timing chain question

Hey all,
My 3.6 powered 08 Equinox, same engine as an 08 Vue, is having the timing chain issues that the 3.6 seems to be known for. I am going to be replacing the chain and tensioners, but was wondering if I should do the VVT sprockets and solenoid valves as well. I am still up in the air as to whether or not I am keeping the car for any length of time, or if I am going to just get out from under it.

Thanks,
John

...
aka
Lord_Varon
07 Vue V6 AWD LOADED!!! aka SUPER CRITTER!!! Sadly gone, and definitely missed.
08 Equinox Sport 3.6 6 spd auto, AWD, even more loaded. And the jury is still out on it.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to lord_varon's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help lord_varon reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
lord_varon is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 09-21-2017, 05:56 PM   #2
gm7
Advanced Member
gm7 will become famous soon enoughgm7 will become famous soon enough
 
gm7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 850

2009 VUE Red Line
Default Re: 3.6 timing chain question

John,
There was a thread on this a short while back. I suggest you read it and watch the videos and PM the poster who started it who changed his timing chains. One suggestion is change water pump related parts while in there as well.

Good luck.

PS: its for the 2.4L but a good reference
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=232060

You likely can find a youtube video on how to change the chains for the 3.6L

Last edited by gm7; 09-21-2017 at 06:02 PM..

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to gm7's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help gm7 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
gm7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2017, 08:06 PM   #3
luklyz
Member
luklyz is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wis Dells, WI
Posts: 52

2008 VUE 3.6L
Default Re: 3.6 timing chain question

Are you sure its timing chain?

Raed this.
https://www.autocodes.com/uploads/gmc/12-06-01-009E.pdf

I had a 2008 vue with every possible code for crankshaft and camshafts. The solution was 4 - $3 thrust washers (after I replaced timing chain $300).

If you have to replace the chain don't replace the sprockets.
Replace all camshaft seals and clean all oil passages under cams.
And you will have to prime the chain tensioners before starting the car.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to luklyz's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help luklyz reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
luklyz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2017, 02:47 AM   #4
gm7
Advanced Member
gm7 will become famous soon enoughgm7 will become famous soon enough
 
gm7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 850

2009 VUE Red Line
Default Re: 3.6 timing chain question

Quote:
Originally Posted by luklyz View Post
Are you sure its timing chain?

Raed this.
https://www.autocodes.com/uploads/gmc/12-06-01-009E.pdf

I had a 2008 vue with every possible code for crankshaft and camshafts. The solution was 4 - $3 thrust washers (after I replaced timing chain $300).

If you have to replace the chain don't replace the sprockets.
Replace all camshaft seals and clean all oil passages under cams.
And you will have to prime the chain tensioners before starting the car.
luklyz,
When you opened it up, how did you determine you needed thrust washers after you replaced the chain? What was wrong with the original thrust washers?...how can thrust washers fail?...or...did you add them and they weren't there originally?

OP, here is an excellent video.
Not for the feint of heart with engine in the car but can be done:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvXxaFzvYnE

Last edited by gm7; 09-22-2017 at 02:54 AM..

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to gm7's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help gm7 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
gm7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2017, 01:00 PM   #5
lord_varon
Advanced Member
lord_varon is a glorious beacon of lightlord_varon is a glorious beacon of lightlord_varon is a glorious beacon of lightlord_varon is a glorious beacon of lightlord_varon is a glorious beacon of lightlord_varon is a glorious beacon of light
 
lord_varon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 681
 

2008 VUE 3.6L
Default Re: 3.6 timing chain question

gm7,
Thanks for the replies and the links to the videos... I will definitely take a look at them...

luklyz,
First off, getting three codes showing; 1. screwed up O2 sensors/plugged cats from the oil blow through due to the ring gap being too much leading to oil loss. (THE MAJOR DESIGN DEFECT THAT CAUSES ALL THE OTHER PROBLEMS.) 2. Per the GM tech that tested it, so much slap in the system that the VVT solenoids weren't actuating properly. And 3. also several seconds of rattle when you first start the car. Plus the fuel economy sucks, it is a not as peppy as my 07 3.5 was, and it has 106k on it.

With the chain rattle/slap and the readings from the GM tech, I figure that the sprockets are probably victims of significant wear, and to not replace them would just be leading to having to get back in there shortly anyway.

To make matter worse, if this were a GMC or Cadillac, they would replace all of this for free as those brands with this engine are covered under a special warrenty due to this issue.

John

...
aka
Lord_Varon
07 Vue V6 AWD LOADED!!! aka SUPER CRITTER!!! Sadly gone, and definitely missed.
08 Equinox Sport 3.6 6 spd auto, AWD, even more loaded. And the jury is still out on it.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to lord_varon's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help lord_varon reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
lord_varon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2017, 03:35 PM   #6
gm7
Advanced Member
gm7 will become famous soon enoughgm7 will become famous soon enough
 
gm7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 850

2009 VUE Red Line
Default Re: 3.6 timing chain question

OP,
If you watch the last video, you will find out how complex the job is.
If you have changed engines and transmissions on cars as many of us have as a kid, it maybe in your wheelhouse. But it is for a 'advanced' home mechanic or a pro because you have to tear so much of the engine apart to get at the timing chains. Its easiest to do the job by dropping the cradle out of the car like with servicing the 3-5-R waveplate.

The video reveals that a quote for this job is $2500 and 16 hrs. I know this job would likely take me...I am slow and meticulous and have never done it....25 hours..probably minimum.

Good luck whatever you decide.

Lessons learned about oil deprived stretched timing chains if its all due to oil deprivation and not a defect in the chain metallurgy is...change your oil on the 3.6L motor more than what the computer tells you. These engines last best with clean oil.

OP, how many miles on your 3.6L and when did it start displaying signs?...generally accompanied with chain rattle due to lost tension.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to gm7's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help gm7 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
gm7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2017, 06:58 PM   #7
atikovi
Member
atikovi is just really niceatikovi is just really niceatikovi is just really niceatikovi is just really nice
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Suburban Washington DC
Posts: 349
Default Re: 3.6 timing chain question

Did this job on a Cadillac a few years back but it was RWD so plenty of room to work. And there are three chains if your weren't aware. Wouldn't bother with the sprockets myself unless it was a 200,000 mile car or you plan on keeping it long term. Do add all the plastic guides on your parts list.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to atikovi's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help atikovi reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
atikovi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2017, 09:15 PM   #8
luklyz
Member
luklyz is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wis Dells, WI
Posts: 52

2008 VUE 3.6L
Default Re: 3.6 timing chain question

Quote:
Originally Posted by gm7 View Post
luklyz,
When you opened it up, how did you determine you needed thrust washers after you replaced the chain? What was wrong with the original thrust washers?...how can thrust washers fail?...or...did you add them and they weren't there originally?

OP, here is an excellent video.
Not for the feint of heart with engine in the car but can be done:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvXxaFzvYnE
You have to measure the camshaft horizontal movement.
The main cam caps are holding cams in place. Cheap oil doesn't provide enough lubrication and cams are wearing out the caps allowing the cams to move farther away from the cam sensors and VVT solenoid. The washers are cheap GM solution to solve the cam waking issue without replacing the heads. The washers are placed between sprocket and head.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to luklyz's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help luklyz reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
luklyz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2017, 05:45 AM   #9
gm7
Advanced Member
gm7 will become famous soon enoughgm7 will become famous soon enough
 
gm7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 850

2009 VUE Red Line
Default Re: 3.6 timing chain question

Quote:
Originally Posted by luklyz View Post
You have to measure the camshaft horizontal movement.
The main cam caps are holding cams in place. Cheap oil doesn't provide enough lubrication and cams are wearing out the caps allowing the cams to move farther away from the cam sensors and VVT solenoid. The washers are cheap GM solution to solve the cam waking issue without replacing the heads. The washers are placed between sprocket and head.
Are you saying cam cap wear is the larger issue at play here? Lots of reports of slack chains breaking guides. Is your point that a chain tensioner should account for chain stretch and the issue at play is really a 'false positive' because the cam shifts axially which displaces its relationship to the sensor which throws a OBDII code?

Can you explain this a bit more? Where did you obtain the thrust washers?...are they sold by GM as a known kluge for cam cap wear?..or did you spec these yourself? Do these washers have a spring rate and apply a preload to the cam end which gives them a more generous tolerance based upon tolerance of wear?

Thank you.

Last edited by gm7; 09-23-2017 at 05:51 AM..

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to gm7's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help gm7 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
gm7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2017, 09:16 AM   #10
lord_varon
Advanced Member
lord_varon is a glorious beacon of lightlord_varon is a glorious beacon of lightlord_varon is a glorious beacon of lightlord_varon is a glorious beacon of lightlord_varon is a glorious beacon of lightlord_varon is a glorious beacon of light
 
lord_varon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 681
 

2008 VUE 3.6L
Default Re: 3.6 timing chain question

All,
First off, this entire issue is caused by oil loss due to ring gap being too big, per discussion with a GM tech. THIS IS THE HEART OF THE WHOLE ISSUE.. The engine burns the oil, the oil contaminants are caught by the catalytic converters, and the those plug..... which pops a code that puts you on notice that there are other issues, and that is how you find out that the timing chain is screwed. And normally the chain isn't so much bad, it is the tensioners and slides that are toast. I am not sure that the cam walk is much of an issue, but it could be caused by wear as a result of everything else. And finally, IF you check your oil FREQUENTLY, as in once a week, or every 500-700 miles, and keep it topped up, with good oil, you will probably never have the timing chain issue.... just plugged catalytic converters.

Atkovi,
I just got the car about a month ago with 105K miles on it... from a little used car place... no extended warrenty/service plan. My research on Edmunds, KBB, Carfax, etc showed no major issues with these cars. And the Carfax report showed a reasonably well maintained vehicle for the most part. It was no until I dug into the forums, after purchasing the car, that I found out about the timing chain issues and wave plate problems. The silly part is, had I looked under 08 Vue, instead of 08 Equinox, I would have seen the problems ahead of time and not purchased the car!!!!

Now, that being said, YES, I know that there are three chains. And the whole replace the sprockets and solenoids thing is depending on how long I keep the car. I can replace the bare bones, and hurry up and sell the car, but I am just passing on a problem, or I can replace it all, and hope and pray that the trans holds together.... or goes before November 20th of this year. In which case it will be replaced/repaired/rebuilt for free.

I know that this repair is not for the faint of heart, and if I had an actual garage of my own, I would probably try it.... but I don't, so I am looking at alternatives.


John

...
aka
Lord_Varon
07 Vue V6 AWD LOADED!!! aka SUPER CRITTER!!! Sadly gone, and definitely missed.
08 Equinox Sport 3.6 6 spd auto, AWD, even more loaded. And the jury is still out on it.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to lord_varon's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help lord_varon reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
lord_varon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2017, 10:20 AM   #11
gm7
Advanced Member
gm7 will become famous soon enoughgm7 will become famous soon enough
 
gm7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 850

2009 VUE Red Line
Default Re: 3.6 timing chain question

Can you explain the part about plugged catalytic converters? My '09 Vue with 40K doesn't use any measurable oil and every time I check oil level its full.

Why would the CAT's plug if the engine doesn't use oil?...or perhaps you are saying they won't plug if the engine doesn't use oil and just how you wrote it.

Thanks

PS: if you don't know the service history of the car, then you likely don't know how often the oil was changed. Adhering to the computer display for percent left time on an oil change is a bad omen for these engines. If your 3.6L uses oil then possible the oil wasn't changed with high frequency and how running it low on oil caused it to not only burn oil and plug your CAT's due to oil starvation but also starve your cams and timing chains.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to gm7's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help gm7 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
gm7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2017, 10:28 AM   #12
atikovi
Member
atikovi is just really niceatikovi is just really niceatikovi is just really niceatikovi is just really nice
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Suburban Washington DC
Posts: 349
Default Re: 3.6 timing chain question

Quote:
Originally Posted by lord_varon View Post
I know that this repair is not for the faint of heart, and if I had an actual garage of my own, I would probably try it.... but I don't, so I am looking at alternatives.
Hmm, you're not that far away. Interested in unloading it? I could do some kind of deal if you take an older Pontiac convertible as trade.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to atikovi's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help atikovi reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
atikovi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2017, 12:09 PM   #13
lord_varon
Advanced Member
lord_varon is a glorious beacon of lightlord_varon is a glorious beacon of lightlord_varon is a glorious beacon of lightlord_varon is a glorious beacon of lightlord_varon is a glorious beacon of lightlord_varon is a glorious beacon of light
 
lord_varon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 681
 

2008 VUE 3.6L
Default Re: 3.6 timing chain question

Gm7,
The cats plug because of the oil loss which is caused by the ring gap issue that I talked about. The oil is sucked into the combustion chamber and burned with the fuel. The extra contaminants from the burned oil plug the cats over time. If you keep a close eye on the oil level and are not seeing any oil loss, you should be fine.
And I have a Carfax report for the car that she's a fairly good maintenance history, so that wasn't a major worry for me, as it appeared pretty well taken care of. The car even had the oil life monitor update from GM that shortened the time between oil changes. Which was GM's B.S. patch for the oil loss issue.

Atkovi,
I have a loan on the car, so I kinda doubt that I could do that kind of swap... But what sort of old convertible Pontiac are you talking?


John

...
aka
Lord_Varon
07 Vue V6 AWD LOADED!!! aka SUPER CRITTER!!! Sadly gone, and definitely missed.
08 Equinox Sport 3.6 6 spd auto, AWD, even more loaded. And the jury is still out on it.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to lord_varon's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help lord_varon reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
lord_varon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2017, 12:18 PM   #14
atikovi
Member
atikovi is just really niceatikovi is just really niceatikovi is just really niceatikovi is just really nice
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Suburban Washington DC
Posts: 349
Default Re: 3.6 timing chain question

I got a Sunfire. Craigslist ad: https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/...294405780.html Webpage with more details: https://sites.google.com/site/atikov...re-convertible

Also have a 2007 Vue Redline on Ebay right now: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2006-Saturn-...pZl4Wh&vxp=mtr but don't really want to take a trade on it.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to atikovi's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help atikovi reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
atikovi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2017, 12:54 PM   #15
gm7
Advanced Member
gm7 will become famous soon enoughgm7 will become famous soon enough
 
gm7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 850

2009 VUE Red Line
Default Re: 3.6 timing chain question

Quote:
Originally Posted by lord_varon View Post
Gm7,
The cats plug because of the oil loss which is caused by the ring gap issue that I talked about. The oil is sucked into the combustion chamber and burned with the fuel. The extra contaminants from the burned oil plug the cats over time. If you keep a close eye on the oil level and are not seeing any oil loss, you should be fine.
And I have a Carfax report for the car that she's a fairly good maintenance history, so that wasn't a major worry for me, as it appeared pretty well taken care of. The car even had the oil life monitor update from GM that shortened the time between oil changes. Which was GM's B.S. patch for the oil loss issue.

Atkovi,
I have a loan on the car, so I kinda doubt that I could do that kind of swap... But what sort of old convertible Pontiac are you talking?


John
Thanks John,
Based upon what you wrote about maintenance intervals being adhered to, hard to understand about why your 3.6L started to use oil. Keep in mind that oil loss isn't relegated to loss thru the rings. There has been much written and workarounds for oil loss thru the intake resulting in some owners across different platforms that use the 3.6L...they install 'catch cans'.

So I wonder if your engine first suffered oil loss through the intake which starved the motor inducing ring wear and subsequent Cat plugging?
With adequate and clean oil supply the 3.6L isn't prone to ring wear.

If your service intervals were adhered to, piston ring wear is rare on these motors. Of course oil starvation and dirty oil can accelerate timing chain issues.

Last edited by gm7; 09-23-2017 at 01:02 PM..

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to gm7's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help gm7 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
gm7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2017, 03:19 PM   #16
lord_varon
Advanced Member
lord_varon is a glorious beacon of lightlord_varon is a glorious beacon of lightlord_varon is a glorious beacon of lightlord_varon is a glorious beacon of lightlord_varon is a glorious beacon of lightlord_varon is a glorious beacon of light
 
lord_varon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 681
 

2008 VUE 3.6L
Default Re: 3.6 timing chain question

Gm7,
The problem is not ring wear that causes oil loss, it is the ring gap. The gap is too big and allows oil to be pulled past. I was told this by two different GM techs at two different dealerships. In fact they are now replacing rings in some of the cars that the 3.6 with this issue. I did see an interesting video that talks about inadequate ventilation on the back bank which leads to some problems.... I am still looking into that though.

Atkovi,
Yeah, the Sunfire sits way to low for wear I live.... I might be interested in the Redline, but know that you have a lot of time and money in it.

John

...
aka
Lord_Varon
07 Vue V6 AWD LOADED!!! aka SUPER CRITTER!!! Sadly gone, and definitely missed.
08 Equinox Sport 3.6 6 spd auto, AWD, even more loaded. And the jury is still out on it.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to lord_varon's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help lord_varon reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
lord_varon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2017, 03:55 PM   #17
gm7
Advanced Member
gm7 will become famous soon enoughgm7 will become famous soon enough
 
gm7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 850

2009 VUE Red Line
Default Re: 3.6 timing chain question

John,
Chicken and Egg. Piston ring wear causes excessive ring gap and hence oil blow by. I am very dubious many 3.6L motors came out of the factory with excessive piston ring gap because these tolerances are monitored in production to mitigate oil consumption. The 3.6L isn't known to burn much oil. Mine sure doesn't. If my supposition is true, then the only way to achieve excessive piston ring gap is by the diameter of the piston ring wearing down which separates the ring as it comes together within the bore.

You are the first to report that piston ring gap is an issue for this motor on this forum and I have been around here a long time...owned my Vue since new.

Maybe the engine in your car was an outlier and gap didn't occur due to wear and it came that way from the factory. I would be most surprised.

Please reference any discussions on line or dealership TSB's related to the piston ring gap issue if you know of any.

Thanks and good luck.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to gm7's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help gm7 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
gm7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2017, 04:29 PM   #18
lord_varon
Advanced Member
lord_varon is a glorious beacon of lightlord_varon is a glorious beacon of lightlord_varon is a glorious beacon of lightlord_varon is a glorious beacon of lightlord_varon is a glorious beacon of lightlord_varon is a glorious beacon of light
 
lord_varon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 681
 

2008 VUE 3.6L
Default Re: 3.6 timing chain question

Gm7,
I was told ring end gap specifically as an issue by two different dealerships. And look on the Equinox forums, there are multiple posts talking about this issue. GM is even doing ring jobs on this engine, in the upper level cars. Look for 09 Cadillac SRX 3.6 extended engine warranty.... specifically for oil consumption issues. The Vue and Equinox are not getting the same extended protection though.... even though it is the same engine and trans.

John.

...
aka
Lord_Varon
07 Vue V6 AWD LOADED!!! aka SUPER CRITTER!!! Sadly gone, and definitely missed.
08 Equinox Sport 3.6 6 spd auto, AWD, even more loaded. And the jury is still out on it.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to lord_varon's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help lord_varon reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
lord_varon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2017, 05:01 PM   #19
gm7
Advanced Member
gm7 will become famous soon enoughgm7 will become famous soon enough
 
gm7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 850

2009 VUE Red Line
Default Re: 3.6 timing chain question

I just have't seen it. Not here or elsewhere. Lots of discussion about timing chains and wave plates. Not even much on this forum about oil in the intake common on this engine on other forums. The direct injection variant of this motor may have greater susceptibility to certain issues. Engine in my '09 Redline has been flawless but its low mileage and the oil has been changed vigilantly.

In your shoes with all the engine issues you note and potential for wave plate failure we all face out of warranty, if you could drop the cradle out the bottom of the car, you could re-ring the motor, redo the timing chains and pre-emptively change the clutch pack in the 6T70 trans. A lot of work but with all the issues you note, dropping the cradle out of the vehicle would be a lot easier.

Good luck.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to gm7's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help gm7 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
gm7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2017, 09:07 AM   #20
gm7
Advanced Member
gm7 will become famous soon enoughgm7 will become famous soon enough
 
gm7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 850

2009 VUE Red Line
Default Re: 3.6 timing chain question

Quote:
Originally Posted by atikovi View Post
Did this job on a Cadillac a few years back but it was RWD so plenty of room to work. And there are three chains if your weren't aware. Wouldn't bother with the sprockets myself unless it was a 200,000 mile car or you plan on keeping it long term. Do add all the plastic guides on your parts list.

Well done atikovi,
To me, this job is a litmus test for mechanical aptitude. If you can do it, then you pass.

Of course as you write, a forward facing motor for this job is much easier and it isn't an easy job whatever car you have...but a true PITA with transversely mounted V6 and why dropping the engine/trans on the cradle out the bottom is so much easier....IF...big if...an owner has access to a body frame lift which the vast majority of us home mechanics don't. The wave plate can be done by jacking the car up and dropping down the cradle a few inches for access to the clutch pack cover. But access to timing chain parts isn't helped a lot by a partial drop down of the cradle.

There is a further subtext on this issue that is written about on the web a bit.
There is a timing chain difference between the Cadillac motor you worked on...the higher HP direct injected 3.6L versus the lower HP conventionally injected 3.6L motors used in the Vue and Equinox and others. Word is the timing chains used due to clearance with the direct injection were weaker and more prone to stretch compared to the lower HP 3.6L that I have say in my Vue Redline. This could be confirmed by a part number comparison but that is the word on the street which corroborates that the failure rate on the higher HP 3.6L is higher and why GM warranties the timing chain issue on these vehicles. It may also be related to the lubrication of the direct injected high HP 3.6L motor as well...or a combination but there is a clear difference as timing chain failures on the more garden variety 3.6L are reported to be much less.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to gm7's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help gm7 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
gm7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
95 SL2 Timing chain question Kaveman S-Series Tech 7 07-09-2013 07:33 AM
timing chain question buniquesl2 S-Series Tech 7 08-22-2011 11:47 PM
Yet another timing chain question jacobsstcg L-Series Tech 0 08-08-2006 12:07 AM
New timing chain question AJR L-Series Tech 3 05-24-2005 01:15 AM
Timing Chain question Mike_SW2K General Saturn Discussion 9 06-16-2003 11:36 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:30 AM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.