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Old 01-25-2017, 04:11 PM   #1
tyeayo
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Default No brake lights working..all others work..need help!

None of my brake lights are working.
The leds are working for the running lights, but do not brighten when the brakes are engaged.

I checked the fuses
All visible connections
Swapped relays
Replaced brake position sensor

Not sure if my third brake light has ever worked since i bought it 2 years ago.

The other day my daughter slammed the crap out of my trunk, i THINK that has somethung to do with this.

Any idears or suugestions? I'm gonna tear into it deeper tonight, remove the rear deck, test for voltage at the connections, look closer at the 3rd brake light....just stumped at ths point on what it couod be.

The leds are good, and are getting a signal to illuminate for the running lights, but evidently not for the brakes.


Thanks for the advice gents

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Old 01-25-2017, 04:14 PM   #2
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Default Re: No brake lights working..all others work..need help!

Do the lights work if you install regular bulbs?

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Old 01-25-2017, 04:17 PM   #3
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Default Re: No brake lights working..all others work..need help!

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Originally Posted by billysvue View Post
Do the lights work if you install regular bulbs?
The brake lights are an led strip, i dont know how i wouod go about put in bulbs...

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Old 01-25-2017, 04:20 PM   #4
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Default Re: No brake lights working..all others work..need help!

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Originally Posted by billysvue View Post
Do the lights work if you install regular bulbs?
Are you talking about trying to wire into the harness a regular bulb harness? I could try that, but it wouod be the same as when i hook up a volt tester.....

I have a fluke, but the probes are too big to fit inaide the harness to test for voltage

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Old 01-25-2017, 05:03 PM   #5
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Default Re: No brake lights working..all others work..need help!

As you know, running lights are separate from brake lights and are on separate circuits. With ignition OFF, I think every vehicle is wired so anyone pressing the brake pedal will turn on rear brake lights - probably a safety issue when brake lights were designed to work with the brake pedal regardless of ignition switch position. The same can be said of manually turning on running lights, low and high beams without using the ignition switch. With this mind, your brake light circuit is the problem; brake pedal switches nowadays have at least two switches; one for the brake lights and the other for cruise control, the bcm where brake switch signaling goes to and output from the bcm to maybe a relay to power the brake lights. Presuming the bcm is fine leaves the brake switch by brake pedal and wiring at the rear brake lights.

Since brake lights are separate circuits from running lights, someone may have to press the brake pedal down while you probe each brake light socket for 12 volts. Be sure to test brake lights, not running lights. If you're lucky it may be a faulty brake switch and not wiring. The third brake lights are also wired as a separate circuit but run is parallel with brake light wiring so three sets of lights turn on for braking.

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Old 01-25-2017, 07:31 PM   #6
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Default Re: No brake lights working..all others work..need help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
As you know, running lights are separate from brake lights and are on separate circuits. With ignition OFF, I think every vehicle is wired so anyone pressing the brake pedal will turn on rear brake lights - probably a safety issue when brake lights were designed to work with the brake pedal regardless of ignition switch position. The same can be said of manually turning on running lights, low and high beams without using the ignition switch. With this mind, your brake light circuit is the problem; brake pedal switches nowadays have at least two switches; one for the brake lights and the other for cruise control, the bcm where brake switch signaling goes to and output from the bcm to maybe a relay to power the brake lights. Presuming the bcm is fine leaves the brake switch by brake pedal and wiring at the rear brake lights.

Since brake lights are separate circuits from running lights, someone may have to press the brake pedal down while you probe each brake light socket for 12 volts. Be sure to test brake lights, not running lights. If you're lucky it may be a faulty brake switch and not wiring. The third brake lights are also wired as a separate circuit but run is parallel with brake light wiring so three sets of lights turn on for braking.
Thanks for that fdryer

I dug in deeper, and pressed the brake down with a bar, and tested for 12v to the brake lights, with the drl on i got 12v, with them off i got nothing....this is telling me there is a problem with power getting back to the lights when braking....

I swapped out the brake switch yesterday, and i even removed it from the bracket and had a buddy swivel it around and still no juice to the lights....I'm really stumped right now, only thing i can imagine is the NEW switch is also bad....do you know how i could go about testing that?

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Old 01-25-2017, 08:32 PM   #7
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Default Re: No brake lights working..all others work..need help!

I'm not an expert on switches but like most simple switches they're configured in one of several ways. Typical brake switches are momentary types - normally off (no braking) and on (braking) as long as the switch is held in/on as a brake switch is used. I do not have wiring diagrams for Aura's so you might be able to use this link to find wiring for your Aura (if not the exact year but wiring should be the same for all Aura's); http://workshop-manuals.com/. I can only guess two wiring circuits, the one already mentioned using the body control module and conventional brake wiring without going thru the bcm.

Conventional wiring wouldn't need the bcm and wired indirectly thru a relay or directly to the brake lights. My guess is wiring is thru a relay; the brake switch supplies either a ground or 12v to the brake relay, powering the relay and a set of contacts closes to send ground or 12v to the brake lights, including the third brake light.

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Old 01-25-2017, 09:42 PM   #8
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Default Re: No brake lights working..all others work..need help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
I'm not an expert on switches but like most simple switches they're configured in one of several ways. Typical brake switches are momentary types - normally off (no braking) and on (braking) as long as the switch is held in/on as a brake switch is used. I do not have wiring diagrams for Aura's so you might be able to use this link to find wiring for your Aura (if not the exact year but wiring should be the same for all Aura's); http://workshop-manuals.com/. I can only guess two wiring circuits, the one already mentioned using the body control module and conventional brake wiring without going thru the bcm.

Conventional wiring wouldn't need the bcm and wired indirectly thru a relay or directly to the brake lights. My guess is wiring is thru a relay; the brake switch supplies either a ground or 12v to the brake relay, powering the relay and a set of contacts closes to send ground or 12v to the brake lights, including the third brake light.
Its actually a rheostat...which makes me more nervous cause i wasnt able to read any voltage feeding it from the harness....such a pita....i got an appt to drop it off tomorrow....as much as i hate that....its so wierd....

No voltage to 3rd brake light
No voltage to either tail brake light
But the leds get voltage when the drl is on.....


Something is stopping a signal from the brake positiom sensor and the brakes

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Old 01-25-2017, 11:39 PM   #9
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Default Re: No brake lights working..all others work..need help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tyeayo View Post
Its actually a rheostat...
Really?! That's a new one as I'm under the assumption brake switches are simple on/off devices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tyeayo View Post
No voltage to 3rd brake light
No voltage to either tail brake light
But the leds get voltage when the drl is on.....
No voltage to brake lights is one thing, the daytime running lights are not supposed to be controlling the running lights, period. Daytime running light are supposed to be controlling the headlights, only. This suggests someone modified wiring or the led running lights are configured incorrectly and interfering with the running light circuitry and/or brake light wiring............ If you can remove these leds and return to stock running lamps, see if this corrects the running lights and brake lights.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tyeayo View Post
Something is stopping a signal from the brake position sensor and the brakes
The led lights interfering with running and brake lights? Remove and replace them with stock lamps. Be sure the original stock lamps are for running lights. Some tail lights combine two lights into one bulb while others have separate tail and brake lights.

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Old 01-26-2017, 11:06 AM   #10
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Default Re: No brake lights working..all others work..need help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Really?! That's a new one as I'm under the assumption brake switches are simple on/off devices.

No voltage to brake lights is one thing, the daytime running lights are not supposed to be controlling the running lights, period. Daytime running light are supposed to be controlling the headlights, only. This suggests someone modified wiring or the led running lights are configured incorrectly and interfering with the running light circuitry and/or brake light wiring............ If you can remove these leds and return to stock running lamps, see if this corrects the running lights and brake lights.


The led lights interfering with running and brake lights? Remove and replace them with stock lamps. Be sure the original stock lamps are for running lights. Some tail lights combine two lights into one bulb while others have separate tail and brake lights.
All Saturn's have led brake lights...

The running lights light the brake lights, and when you step on the brakes, its lights those led brake lights brighter....this is the normal operation...if you go check yours, you'll see that the brake lights are an led strip, and when your running lights are on, the brake lights light up, but when you press the brakes, they light up brighter

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Old 01-26-2017, 11:14 AM   #11
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Default Re: No brake lights working..all others work..need help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tyeayo View Post
All Saturn's have led brake lights...
Maybe later model ones do- not older.

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Old 01-26-2017, 01:02 PM   #12
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Default Re: No brake lights working..all others work..need help!

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Originally Posted by tyeayo View Post
All Saturn's have led brake lights...

The running lights light the brake lights, and when you step on the brakes, its lights those led brake lights brighter....this is the normal operation...if you go check yours, you'll see that the brake lights are an led strip, and when your running lights are on, the brake lights light up, but when you press the brakes, they light up brighter
Are you sure of this? Saturn as a brand isn't a high end vehicle where LED lighting is costlier in factory installations. My L300 uses plain incandescent lamps. One way to know which lamps are used - going online and visiting AutoZone, Advance Auto, NAPA, etc., and looking up replacement tail lights. The previous owner may have modified lighting to accommodate LEDs, resulting in this problem along with losing the third brake light. Most custom wiring may use wire taps, cut and splice, and leaving loose wiring not resembling factory configurations with electrical tape unraveling after a few years. Custom wiring tends to stand out.

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Old 01-26-2017, 07:08 PM   #13
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Default Re: No brake lights working..all others work..need help!

this is probably a dumb comment but just want to make sure you know on aura car has to be running for brake light s to work. sorry if you already knew that

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Old 05-29-2017, 11:38 AM   #14
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Default Re: No brake lights working..all others work..need help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Are you sure of this? Saturn as a brand isn't a high end vehicle where LED lighting is costlier in factory installations. My L300 uses plain incandescent lamps. One way to know which lamps are used - going online and visiting AutoZone, Advance Auto, NAPA, etc., and looking up replacement tail lights. The previous owner may have modified lighting to accommodate LEDs, resulting in this problem along with losing the third brake light. Most custom wiring may use wire taps, cut and splice, and leaving loose wiring not resembling factory configurations with electrical tape unraveling after a few years. Custom wiring tends to stand out.
beyond sure, as i've replaced both sides for the lens popping off and scavenged the internals as spares....they have an led strip for the brake light...bulbs for turn signal and reverse light...

turned out that one of the leads going into the trunk fuse box came loose....foolish of me to not inspected deeper...

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Old 09-25-2017, 07:10 AM   #15
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Default Re: No brake lights working..all others work..need help!

where would i look for a loose lead going into the fusebox? I have the same exact issue right now with my Aura and can't seem to figure it out. I don't know if the brake lights run on a separate fuse and if so which fuse that would even be. thanks.

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