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Old 09-06-2017, 11:14 AM   #1
JerryHughes
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Default Spark plug ceramic tip broken in engine

Hi all,
Although the car was running good, I was due for new spark plugs and wires. (A horror story every time I try to remove the wires---"mutilation time" so I always just buy new) Anyway, when taking the old plugs out I could see how the ceramic terminal or tip on one of the plugs had been broken. It was probably cracked when I installed. By the pictures here, you may be able to see how much of the ceramic tip is missing. Question is----being ceramic, would that have eventually burnt up? Would there still be some loose ceramic in the engine? Is this a potential problem or would that have been a problem, long ago? Any feedback appreciated.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Plug 1.jpg (145.3 KB, 50 views)
File Type: jpg Plug 2.jpg (153.8 KB, 40 views)

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Old 09-06-2017, 11:21 AM   #2
OldNuc
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Default Re: Spark plug ceramic tip broken in engine

It goes out the exhaust immediately or you would have known it when it happened.

You need to change spark plugs more often and from that maybe change heat range.

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Old 09-06-2017, 11:22 AM   #3
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Default Re: Spark plug ceramic tip broken in engine

Do a compression check, That will tell you if there was damage.

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Old 09-06-2017, 11:37 AM   #4
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Default Re: Spark plug ceramic tip broken in engine

1). cold engine
2). remove plug
3). Vacuum it out with a semi flexible clear tube like a drinking straw using your mouth carefully. and don't swallow it.

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Old 09-06-2017, 11:42 AM   #5
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Default Re: Spark plug ceramic tip broken in engine

You mention the car was running good? I just don't see how that plug could even be firing. Wow!

As mentioned by OldNuc, go to a colder heat range when you replace those plugs.

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Old 09-06-2017, 12:15 PM   #6
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Default Re: Spark plug ceramic tip broken in engine

Thanks, all, for the info. Come to think of it now, I was getting some "missing" when accelerating but just not that bad, believe it or not. If the ceramic is gone now, I won't worry about it. And I've been using and installing the suggested NGK 7755's and so far, they've been good. The other plug ends looked a little "oily-dirty" but was that possibly because of the one, bad plug? The pic of the one bad plug looks like I haven't changed the plugs in a long time but that's just junk build up because of the cracked ceramic---the other three plugs didn't look bad. And again, by the looks of the missing ceramic, where it is cracked is all black too so it probably happened a long time ago. Taking the car for a ride now, it does run like a top. No missing, etc. so I assume all is okay. Thank you all for putting my mind to ease.
Oh, should I still go to a colder range plug?? As mentioned, the car runs well with the 7755's.

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Old 09-06-2017, 12:40 PM   #7
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Default Re: Spark plug ceramic tip broken in engine

Pre-Ignition:
Quote:
Originally Posted by NGK
https://www.ngksparkplugs.com/about-...rk-plug-basics
Pre-ignition occurs when the air-fuel mixture is ignited by a hot object/area in the combustion chamber before the timed spark event occurs.
When the spark plug firing end (tip) temperature exceeds 800C, pre-ignition originating from the overheated insulator ceramic can occur.
It is most often caused by the wrong (too hot) heat range spark plug, and/or over-advanced ignition timing. An improperly installed (insufficient torque) spark plug can also result in pre-ignition due to inadequate heat transfer.
Pre-ignition will dramatically raise the cylinder temperature and pressure and can melt and hole pistons, burn valves, etc.
Guessing that's from cylinder 3? Usually runs hotter due to the EGR passage's, may only need to go 1-step colder on that 1 plug but I suspect they should be identical plugs.

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Old 09-06-2017, 01:36 PM   #8
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Default Re: Spark plug ceramic tip broken in engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by fetchitfido View Post
Pre-Ignition:


Guessing that's from cylinder 3? Usually runs hotter due to the EGR passage's, may only need to go 1-step colder on that 1 plug but I suspect they should be identical plugs.
It was the plug out of the 3rd from the left. Here are photos of the other three plugs. I had thrown them out so the threads are "gritty" etc., but by the looks of these, should I go to another temp range or to another temp range just on the bad one? (Oh, when I change the plugs, all four usually look like this---as far as deposits, etc.) Thank you. Stick with the NGK's 7755's???
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Plug3.jpg (64.8 KB, 23 views)
File Type: jpg Plug4.jpg (71.7 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg Plug5.jpg (69.4 KB, 14 views)

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Old 09-06-2017, 01:51 PM   #9
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Default Re: Spark plug ceramic tip broken in engine

In all three pictures, the right most plug appears to have either a large cut/slice or is cracked too, on the nose. Is it just a line or is it cracked too?

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Old 09-06-2017, 02:03 PM   #10
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Default Re: Spark plug ceramic tip broken in engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
In all three pictures, the right most plug appears to have either a large cut/slice or is cracked too, on the nose. Is it just a line or is it cracked too?
In fact, two of those plugs appear to have that type of "line". I can't really tell if it is an actual crack or if it's just a line. When I run/drag a sharp knife point over it, the knife does catch so something is there. Man, am I cracking these when I gap them? Possibly. I'm going to have to go easier on these plugs, the next time. I was easier on them when I gapped them this time, using the suggested gapper from the video off Rockauto.com. Hope I didn't crack any of those but time will tell.
But by the looks of the plugs and residue on them, should I go with a cooler plug??? Thanks.

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Old 09-06-2017, 02:16 PM   #11
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Default Re: Spark plug ceramic tip broken in engine

Install new plugs and run them for a month and then pull for inspection. There is nothing much that can be told from those plugs other than they are shot.

At this point do not get all wrapped up in where the chunk went as if it was still in there you would know it.

After the next batch of plugs it will be possible to determine how well they are performing.

The #1 plug is the plug closest to the right hand side of the car which is the passenger side.

May need hotter plug but this is NOT the time to be trying that either.

The proper plug comes out of the box properly gaped. DIY gaping is how these things get cracked. The NGK is gaped to 1.1mm or 0.040. The paper collar is to protect the factory set gap. If the plug is closed up it has been dropped and should not be used.

Those present plugs are oil fouled which is a sign of oil burning and cold plug. But it is hard to tell as they have been used way too long for any decent determination.

Last edited by OldNuc; 09-06-2017 at 02:24 PM..

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Old 09-06-2017, 02:18 PM   #12
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Default Re: Spark plug ceramic tip broken in engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryHughes View Post
But by the looks of the plugs and residue on them, should I go with a cooler plug??? Thanks.
Since you have installed some new plugs, I'd suggest you run them for while 500 miles or so and pull a few and see how they look. Your old ones do appear to be too hot.

Once you examine those currently installed plugs, you will be in a much better position to make a decision on which way to go.

Don't beat yourself up on the cracked insulators. We all have made that mistake!

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Old 09-06-2017, 02:22 PM   #13
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Default Re: Spark plug ceramic tip broken in engine

OldNuc, You and I went to the same school no doubt!

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Old 09-06-2017, 02:22 PM   #14
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Default Re: Spark plug ceramic tip broken in engine

There are at least two ways to gap plugs, the right way and the wrong way. The wrong way is applying any pressure on the center electrode. The ceramic is molded and heat set, making it delicate to any tension or side pressure on the electrode. If you used the nose as a leverage point, you may have started a hairline crack that won't be seen until the plug heats up to combustion temperatures when heat causes the ceramic to split off.

Gapping involves adjusting the side electrode and never touching the center at all due to the delicate nature of hard ceramic. Its said when piston engine aircraft spark plugs are dropped, they're considered damaged no matter how soft they landed. A damaged spark plug in an aircraft engine is risking life and limb since what goes up isn't supposed to come down hard if an engine falters or dies while flying. Cars just misfire or die but don't crash the way airplanes would if mishandled plugs creates problems in the air.

I used to gap plugs years ago. Bent the side electrode just enough to fit a flat file to sharpen the center electrode then bent the side electrode back to spec. Never had a misfire from following procedures.

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Old 09-06-2017, 02:23 PM   #15
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Default Re: Spark plug ceramic tip broken in engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
Install new plugs and run them for a month and then pull for inspection. There is nothing much that can be told from those plugs other than they are shot.

At this point do not get all wrapped up in where the chunk went as if it was still in there you would know it.

After the next batch of plugs it will be possible to determine how well they are performing.

The #1 plug is the plug closest to the right hand side of the car which is the passenger side.

May need hotter plug but this is NOT the time to be trying that either.
Okay, then the plug that had the broken piece was from, when sitting in the car, the 3rd from the right hand side or passenger side.
So, the deposits on the plugs are what they usually look like when I pull them. You're saying that they should be burning cleaner, and that would take a hotter plug?
I hate to pull the wires off these plugs in a month because like I said, I never get them off clean and mutilate them. I actually bought a cheap spark plug wire "puller" but that was still no good.

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Old 09-06-2017, 02:27 PM   #16
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Default Re: Spark plug ceramic tip broken in engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post

I used to gap plugs years ago. Bent the side electrode just enough to fit a flat file to sharpen the center electrode then bent the side electrode back to spec. Never had a misfire from following procedures.
I agree. The video I watched stayed away from any pressure on the electrode. I was trying to stay away from the electrode altogether this time and hope it helped.

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Old 09-06-2017, 02:28 PM   #17
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Default Re: Spark plug ceramic tip broken in engine

You'll probably hear one naysayer here but using dielectric grease allows lubing the plug connector to ceramic exterior to prevent cooking the plug boots onto plugs. Just a little dab to allow lubing the rubber to plug contact surfaces with a twisting motion to spread lube on the ceramic portion.

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Old 09-06-2017, 02:28 PM   #18
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Default Re: Spark plug ceramic tip broken in engine

Yes, looks like a warmer plug is what MAY be required. Could also be shot wires. The wires should snap on and off easily on your car, that may be another issue.

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Old 09-06-2017, 02:30 PM   #19
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Default Re: Spark plug ceramic tip broken in engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
You'll probably hear one naysayer here but using dielectric grease allows lubing the plug connector to ceramic exterior to prevent cooking the plug boots onto plugs. Just a little dab to allow lubing the rubber to plug contact surfaces with a twisting motion to spread lube on the ceramic portion.
In the package with my new wires was a small packet of grease. I did rub some of that on the white body of each plug and a little at the "mouth" of both ends of the wires. Hope it helps with release next time.

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Old 09-06-2017, 02:34 PM   #20
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Default Re: Spark plug ceramic tip broken in engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
Yes, looks like a warmer plug is what MAY be required. Could also be shot wires. The wires should snap on and off easily on your car, that may be another issue.
Oh man, getting the old wires off was like pulling teeth! The last time I bought and used wires, they were a "medium" grade from NAPA. Cost about $25 or so. This time I went with Rock Auto and got the ACDELCO 9764B, which ran me about the same cost. Should be good enough wires. Even without grease, these should just "pop" off?

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