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Old 10-10-2017, 06:57 PM   #1
Racer99'1.9DOHC
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Default No start headache!

Seems like I pulled a rookie mistake. In the process of my race car build, I am getting rid of unnecessary wires/plugs. I ran the car a week and a half ago and haven't since. I did not start it today before I started removing wires/plugs and after I came to a stopping point and tried to start the car, it will not start. Battery has 12.25volts and I can hear the fuel pump turing on as well. There is no crank at all or even the chime noise.
Things I removed:
Headlights and cut wires
Tail lights and cut wires
Rear speakers and cut wires
Trunk panel and cut wires
Third brake light and wires
Cut wires to the A/C panel and radio
Cut blower motor wires
Security block that is by passenger rear door cut wires

Anything seem unusual or do something wrong? Will removing that security block cause the car not to start? I went and got all the wires back but I'm hoping I don't have to redo the work.

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Old 10-10-2017, 08:08 PM   #2
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2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: No start headache!

Do you mean the remote keyless entry module (RKE) in the right rear passenger fender? Factory security; when remote locking doors, the rke module disables the start relay under the steering column harness. When using the remote to Unlock doors, the rke module powers the start relay to allow the starting circuit to operate. Since you're gutting everything for racing, the rke module can be disconnected but to ensure the start relay allows starting, remove it and insert a small wire to bypass relay use altogether. Examine the relay for pinouts and insert the jumper wire into relay socket terminals 30 and 87 - this allows the starting circuit to operate without remote use.

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Old 10-10-2017, 08:11 PM   #3
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1999 SL2
Default Re: No start headache!

Try this:

http://www.saturnspot.com/showthread.php?t=19444


The RKE (remote keyless entry) feeds into a starter relay that is hidden inside the dash, behind the instrument cluster. You don't need the relay, it is there to prevent a thief from stealing your car. But if you just cut out the RKE, the relay doesn't get energized, the starter circuit doesn't get energized and the car won't start (happened to me on one of my '99s for a different reason).

Richipin06 has a video on removing the starter relay too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfaOOAOXUHE

Let us know if this helps.

...
Peter in Lansing MI

current cars:
94 SW2 (White, automatic)
99 SL2 (Silver Plum, manual)
99 SL2 (Dark Blue, manual)
04 Ion 3 (Berry Red, 2.0L automatic)
07 Ion 3 (Cypress Green, 2.4L, manual)

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Old 10-10-2017, 08:12 PM   #4
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Default Re: No start headache!

Come on fdryer! you beat me by 3 minutes while I was checking my links!

...
Peter in Lansing MI

current cars:
94 SW2 (White, automatic)
99 SL2 (Silver Plum, manual)
99 SL2 (Dark Blue, manual)
04 Ion 3 (Berry Red, 2.0L automatic)
07 Ion 3 (Cypress Green, 2.4L, manual)

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Old 10-10-2017, 08:37 PM   #5
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Default Re: No start headache!

Ok, next time around, I'll wait or I might miss a post. At least we agree on a possible problem that's easily fixed for this car that doesn't need frills.

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Old 10-11-2017, 06:01 AM   #6
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Default Re: No start headache!

Fdryer is amazing at helping out and canít thank him enough for helping out with the problems that I have come across. To try and clarify, the box said Saturn security on it and if you open the right rear door, it would be to the left just inside the door and it is held on by some sticky goop stuff.
I want to note that I do not have a RKE for the car. All I have is the key. By doing what was mentioned in the responses, will this avoid it not starting in the future? Will removing the starter relay mess with anything else?

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Old 10-11-2017, 06:43 AM   #7
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Default Re: No start headache!

So after reading the responses again and watching the video, the way to fix it is to simply make a jumper relay and plug it in? No other way around it?

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Old 10-11-2017, 08:49 AM   #8
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Default Re: No start headache!

I'm sure there is another way, but the question is how much of the original wiring are you wanting to abandon and replace with a new system?

For a race car, I would be tempted to rip out everything possible and make a simpler system, but that is a lot of work up-front to make future maintenance/mods easier; maybe while you are losing track-time in the pits chasing an electrical gremlin.

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Old 10-11-2017, 09:06 AM   #9
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2001 SC2
Default Re: No start headache!

If the car is a '96+ with power door locks...you actually do (did?) have RKE just whomever sold you the car didn't bother to include the FOB.

Is this still the 1st gen car taking the idiotic 3rd gen engine/PCM/harness idea or did you smarten up and ditch the 3rd gen stuff? The 3rd gen with PassLock isn't going to be happy about being chopped up and relocated...

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Old 10-11-2017, 09:25 AM   #10
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2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: No start headache!

Racer99'1.9DOHC, your '98 SL2 being ripped apart to make into a track car uses the rke module. The starter interrupt relay is Saturn's first generation alarm system with a starting circuit interrupt - disabling the starting system when a thief tries to steal the car. The alarm system turns on the lights and horn while the starting system is disabled by opening the starting circuit between the ignition switch and starter. The starting system interrupt is the relay taped to the wiring harness under the steering column area. The rke module powers this relay on to allow the starting circuit to operate. When the rke module fails or disconnected, the starter relay can't power up to close its contacts to allow starting. Removing the relay and inserting a wire jumper bypasses everything permanently - you can start up without the alarm system and this relay. Relay terminal socket pins 30 and 87 are jumpered. No more relay. The ignition switch operates without this relay so you can start up any time.

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Old 10-11-2017, 12:16 PM   #11
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Default Re: No start headache!

Billr: I donít think I want to ditch the whole system, just wires I donít need and keep the car functioning corrrecrly and start with no problems.

Fetchitfido: no this is not that guy haha. I have a 98 that I am building with a 99 parts car. 3rd gen is 2000+ correct?

Fdryer: I have been starting the car up with no problem just by unlocking and locking with the key. Havenít had a FOB since I got it. So once I make put in the relay (richpin), it really shouldnít cause any more issues and I donít need those 4 connecting wires anymore since they are bypassed?

I may not be able to get around to doing it until next week but just wanting to gather everything I can and will be sure to let you guys know how it comes out. All the info helps!

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Old 10-11-2017, 12:23 PM   #12
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Default Re: No start headache!

Don't assume. Look for the taped up relay under the steering column harnesses. Two wires are important and both may be yellow, the ones to jumper across the relay socket terminals.

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Old 10-11-2017, 12:55 PM   #13
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2001 SC2
Default Re: No start headache!

So many guys turning these into race cars, it gets confusing

So the RKE modules plug has been cut off? Makes it harder to bypass the starter relay without digging behind/under the gauge cluster...
The yellow with black stripe is the starter relay control wire (pin N on the plug), Jump that to ground to "bypass" the starter relay behind the gauge cluster. If the harness is cut I'd suggest running a dedicated ground as the 2 black wires are not both grounds, 1 runs the horn (pin C) and the other is the ground (pin N). Looks like the manual lock cars still got the relay but the control wire goes straight to ground so unless the relay fails they don't have to worry about it.

The actual relay has 3 yellow wires, 2 are "in" and 1 is "out". Looks like 85 should be the yellow/black wire from the RKE, 86 should be one of the yellow "in", 30 the other yellow "in" and 87 the yellow out. My diagram has GM connector numbers rather than the typical relay numbering hence "should be" rather than "is".

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Old 10-11-2017, 01:08 PM   #14
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Default Re: No start headache!

fetchitfido: The only thing I cut off that relates to the starting, that I now figured out hopefully, is the black security box that is located inside the right rear door behind the seat. That is connected to starter relay. If that is the same thing as the RKE module plug then yes but isnít the RKE module plug the one under the dash?
Everything Iím finding out about this is from on here so let me know if I got anything confused.

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Old 10-11-2017, 01:20 PM   #15
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Default Re: No start headache!

The starter relay is unrelated to the RKE module.
The RKE module in '97-'99 includes the factory alarm system so is probably labeled "security"...I never paid much attention to it even when I nabbed one from a JY to fix the passenger door not unlocking.

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Old 10-11-2017, 02:27 PM   #16
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Default Re: No start headache!

Thatís what I cut off. From what Iíve read in the responses, there is a relay wire that is connected into the security box, or a circuit, and that is whatís causing it not to start. Is this correct? I believe it was fdryer who said it.

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Old 10-11-2017, 02:54 PM   #17
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Default Re: No start headache!

Here's the starting circuit to examine and modify as suggested previously. 87A relays come in different pinouts but the four main pinouts are 85/86 and 30/87.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1998 Saturn SL2 SC2 SW2.jpg (204.6 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg 87A relay drawing.jpg (63.3 KB, 1 views)
File Type: jpg 87A relay pin outs.jpg (30.4 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg 87A-1 relay.jpg (53.7 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg 87A-2 (5pin) relay.jpg (36.2 KB, 2 views)

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Old 10-12-2017, 03:50 PM   #18
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Default Re: No start headache!

You guys are awesome!! I followed Richpinís video with the relay mod and plugged it into the plug under the dash and it starts like a charm!! Appreciate all the help guys!

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Old 10-12-2017, 04:30 PM   #19
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Default Re: No start headache!

There is something else I just noticed by chance as well. I had my hand on the fuse block inside the car and felt something relatively hot. It was the fuel pump relay. I don't know how long it has been going on or if it was caused by something I did with cutting the wires that I previously stated. Don't know if it matters or not but after I plugged in the relay for the starter, the chime noise never came back on like it did before. I changed out the relay with the parts car and it got hot again as well. I can still hear the fuel pump "powering on" right before I start the car so I wouldn't think the fuel pump is bad?. Is any of this related? Am I missing something? Hope this is an easy fix.

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Old 10-12-2017, 11:00 PM   #20
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Default Re: No start headache!

If the engine runs, drives and presents no further issues, leave well enough alone. The fuel pump relay doesn't get hot from a short circuit - it's hot from either the coil being powered up, the electrical contacts inside are worn and carrying current across oxidized contacts or the external pins aren't making good electrical connections to relay socket terminals. It may be normal because you never put your hand on it before until you started removing things to lighten the car. We often don't notice things until touching them since they're working. Power to the relay doesn't change unless its the wrong relay - different coil resistance determines how much current runs thru a coil and the more current it takes the more powerful it is. You can always try swapping another relay in and see if heat goes away or remains.

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