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Old 08-01-2017, 08:01 PM   #61
SaturnStick
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Location: Southern New England
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2000 SL2
Default Re: 2000 SL2 - MPG and power dropped. A lot.

True and a good point.
Beginning - 30-33mpg, able to drive up most hills to work in 5th, no prob.
Problem - cranks fine but trouble catching, 20-23mpg, even gentle slopes on the freeway require 4th gear and even then any acceleration is SLOOWWW, once warm, I have to keep my foot feathering the gas or I risk it slowly dying. I mean, it tries to be sure, but drops to around 800, then isn't able to maintain it. Sometimes, though, it does.. then the idle is rough.
...
Actions (I went through all the old posts in this thread):
...
Catalytic - We think 'no' because I removed the upstream O2 sensor and the problems didn't diminish.
ECTS - Replaced
IATS - Replaced
Fuel pressure - Solid 48psi when key on, started, & revving.
Fuel filter - Replaced (17 years? yeah, I'm willing)
TPS - Replaced with both new and 'got it at Chuck & Eddies'
IACV - Replaced with both new and 'got it at Chuck & Eddies'
Throttle body - cleaned & replaced (that's how I got the TPS and IACV)
MAP - First cleaned (just made sure the hole was open), then replaced with new though I retain the old.
EGR - Did the 'block the hole in the throttle body' test and got no change (still can't seem to maintain idle without my foot helping). Also, since it's open at idle & wide throttle, I notice that around 4000rpm, my performance boosts a little. I figure that's the valve closing.
Coils - Tested as best I could, then replaced.
Sparks & Wires - Old so I replaced them. Am keeping the sparks clean, they appear to show good burn on all 4, though a friend noticed the smell of unburned fuel.
....
I think that's all of it.
I'll be getting an OBD-II reader from a site recommended to me by a knowledgeable friend, though my car's not throwing codes. I figure I can monitor a few things and reset any I may cause. :-)
.... which leaves.. my next (and final, as troubleshooting goes, I think) step:
TEST THE INJECTORS (stay tuned!!)

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Old 08-01-2017, 08:12 PM   #62
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2000 SL2
Default Re: 2000 SL2 - MPG and power dropped. A lot.

As promised - TESTING THE INJECTORS (looking for poor/no flow, poor spray pattern) -

I'm going to check the injectors, which means removing them. I'm not looking forward to removing injectors that have been in place for nearly 20 years.
Here's my overall plan (the Haynes isn't exactly explicit on the how-to):

I will have a set of replacements on hand as a just in case and a set of o-rings because the old ones have been in place for 17 years.

1 - Remove the spark plugs so the cylinders definitely won't have vacuum while I'm trying to pull out the injectors. I'll keep the holes covered.
2 - Remove anything that will interfere with lifting the fuel rail (it's not much, but there are a couple of things that will make it difficult).
3 - Remove the hardware securing the fuel rail in place.
4 - Slowly lift the fuel rail and injectors up and away from the engine.
5 - Put down something to catch sprayed fuel as I test the injectors.
6 - Turn the key to ON, but not try to start, so that the fuel rail is pressurized.
7 - Using either a 9V battery and adapter (saw it on YouTube) or a multimeter to ground the appropriate side of each injector, check for fuel spray (and visually check overall spray pattern/amount of spray).
8 - Turn the key to OFF to remove active fuel pressure.
NOTE: I may simply replace them as they're ancient, but knowing that one or more are ailing will be of value either way. The Haynes makes it appear that they're held in place with clips, which I'll be treating cautiously.
9 - Give them a quick cleaning while I replace the o-rings, the slowly insert the injectors into the engine.
10 - Secure the rail's hardware.
11 - Re-install anything removed to facilitate all of this fun.
NOTE: Should I unplug the battery for 20 minutes or so to clear ALL 'active' data (like how it's supposed to 'learn' my style of driving or some such) before I try starting?? Let it start clean, if you will...
12 - Give her a try.
...
....
Thoughts??

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Old 08-02-2017, 11:55 PM   #63
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2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 2000 SL2 - MPG and power dropped. A lot.

1-You never posted warm engine coolant temps. Expect between 185F-200F otherwise the thermostat is worn out.

2-No one mentioned a compression test so it should be included with all the testing being performed. 185 psi is expected.

3-Fuel pump operation with ignition on (engine off) will only be for two seconds for safety. In order to have continuous fuel pump operation, the engine must be started or running. With the injectors and fuel rail pulled off the intake manifold to monitor injector spray pattern, you'll have to carefully wire a switch into the fuel pump relay socket (relay removed). Whether a switch is wired in or using a small wire jumper, care must be considered relative to fuse panel and injectors as fumes are easily ignitable. Inserting either a wired switch or simple wire between relay socket terminals 30 and 87 will have 12v (switched or not) being sent to the fuel pump regardless of ignition switch position. This will allow controlling fuel pump operation manually. Be very aware that any spark in the vicinity of gasoline fumes presents a hazardous condition. Spark in the presence of raw gasoline is down right dangerous. An insulated on/off switch with two wires firmly inserted into the relay socket terminals can help prevent fumes from being ignited when toggling power on and off. The same hazardous condition exists when powering injectors. Be very aware of spark in the vicinity of injectors, raw gasoline and fumes. With these precautions in mind, you may want to rethink injector testing.

At the least, just laying out injectors with fuel rail, wiring connected and cycling ignition on should result in zero fuel spray from all injectors since the engine isn't started. As soon as the engine turns over, injector pulses are timed precisely to each cylinder at the appropriate time. Ignition on should not result in any injector spraying fuel. If fuel sprays out or leaks, the injector is faulty or has debris caught in the pintle valve.

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