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Old 03-20-2017, 05:16 PM   #1
buffalo14052
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Default GM Dexos is changing.

So i just talked to my valvoline rep today and he just received information that GM is changing their dexos certification. Basically any syn blend oil will no longer meet dexos 1 requirements starting August 1 2017. Valvoline states that the ONLY oils that will meet the new dexos 1 spec will be valvoline full syn with maxlife and valvoline full syn (a new product they are releasing at the same time). 5w30 maxlife blend will be produced but only by the qt and not in bulk. I'm personally surprised it took GM 7 years to figure out syn blend oil will not last the 7-9K most OLMs take to turn on. This doesn't change my outlook on the many follies GM continues to put in it's cars but at least folks that come into my shop now will finally be forced to put full syn in their cars and maybe extend the life of their timing chains. The reason I am posting this here is I run 5w30 maxlife blend in both my saturns (99sl 279k, 01sl2 142k) with success. Guess i can't get it by the drum starting in Aug. though.

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Old 03-20-2017, 05:28 PM   #2
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Default Re: GM Dexos is changing.

My understanding of DEXOS is it eliminates zinc additives. Which older engines need badly to prevent wearing out the cam and followers. So I don't think oils meeting DEXOS should be used in older engines

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Old 03-20-2017, 05:34 PM   #3
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Default Re: GM Dexos is changing.

Allegedly this is coming to address turbo deposits and pre-ignition issues. It wasn't stated in the bulletin but i believe it is also to address excessive wear to timing components, add life to the VVT solenoids, and reduce oil consumption. Unsure about zinc properties and its effects on older engines. My rep said that the ideal oil for a high mileage engine that required 5w30 would still be the maxlife blend but only because it's additive package and lubrication properties far exceed anything available from the 90s.

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Old 03-20-2017, 06:04 PM   #4
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Default Re: GM Dexos is changing.

Read the S and C designation descriptions carefully. What all of this is will be clear and mostly free of hype. There are some possible compatibility issues with using the latest diesel oils.

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Old 03-20-2017, 07:10 PM   #5
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Default Re: GM Dexos is changing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by buffalo14052 View Post
So i just talked to my valvoline rep today and he just received information that GM is changing their dexos certification. Basically any syn blend oil will no longer meet dexos 1 requirements starting August 1 2017. Valvoline states that the ONLY oils that will meet the new dexos 1 spec will be valvoline full syn with maxlife and valvoline full syn (a new product they are releasing at the same time). 5w30 maxlife blend will be produced but only by the qt and not in bulk. I'm personally surprised it took GM 7 years to figure out syn blend oil will not last the 7-9K most OLMs take to turn on. This doesn't change my outlook on the many follies GM continues to put in it's cars but at least folks that come into my shop now will finally be forced to put full syn in their cars and maybe extend the life of their timing chains. The reason I am posting this here is I run 5w30 maxlife blend in both my saturns (99sl 279k, 01sl2 142k) with success. Guess i can't get it by the drum starting in Aug. though.
I'd not heard of Dexos prior to reading this post. Thank you for putting up the information you were given, buffalo14052. I'm inclined to think that there's also another angle on this requirement discussed in the article linked below from a company in Louisiana. While the engine in my car is not a genuine Saturn engine, my ECOTEC 2.2L has done well on both Valvoline Maxlife and Castrol Syn-blend for about three or four years now. Because I reside where I do and am under the driving conditions requiring it, the oil change interval (at least from late Spring through early Fall) is at 3K miles. I've not followed this perfectly, but mostly it's close. My engine is doing just fine and the timing chain is the factory original to date.

http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/178

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Old 03-21-2017, 08:07 AM   #6
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Default Re: GM Dexos is changing.

I think the industry as a whole is due for some big changes. I cannot hire a GS to change oil and tires because they can go to mcdonalds for almost the same rate if not higher. Compound that by having training, tools, liability, stricter hiring standards and hiring a good entry level tech is next to impossible. With many standards changing and many oil changes requiring quite a bit of technical know-how I see no choice but the industry finally yielding higher wages.

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Old 03-21-2017, 08:56 AM   #7
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Default Re: GM Dexos is changing.

Higher wages translate directly to higher customer cost and the headlong rush to a computer controlled car with minimal access to the software by independent shops and DIY is heading to a major upheaval in the industry. Customers are not going to hold still for the cost of a trip to a dealer to program remotes etc.

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Old 03-21-2017, 10:18 AM   #8
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Default Re: GM Dexos is changing.

Well said. Shops that are stuck on "old technology" are going to be out of business soon. I just invested about $30000 into new scanners (I went with the Solus Edge) so I could do some functionality tests in addition to live data/mode 6 etc. So far I've been pleased. Other than the cost of repair the only inhibition most customers have is time. I've done more than one repair that would've been free at the dealer because the customer wanted it done NOW and had no problem giving me $400 to fix their problem because the dealer was scheduling a week out. The advent of the "non serviceable" component has also drastically increased repair costs. I just sent my techs to electrical mode 6 training as many drivability problems are caused by software issues in addition to component failure.

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Old 03-21-2017, 10:42 AM   #9
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Default Re: GM Dexos is changing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
Customers are not going to hold still for the cost of a trip to a dealer to program remotes etc.
Yeah, we were pretty displeased to find that our new minivan "keys" are these things:



The metal key part only opens the doors in emergencies, but will not start the car. The fob part starts the car, and to get another one programmed runs around $200 (though I've heard some shops will do it for less)

On my "to do" list is to get my RKE programmed ($40? have it written down somewhere) for my 3rd gen Saturn, and to get a key cut from the VIN

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Old 03-21-2017, 10:51 AM   #10
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Default Re: GM Dexos is changing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by buffalo14052 View Post
Well said. Shops that are stuck on "old technology" are going to be out of business soon. I just invested about $30000 into new scanners (I went with the Solus Edge) so I could do some functionality tests in addition to live data/mode 6 etc. So far I've been pleased. Other than the cost of repair the only inhibition most customers have is time. I've done more than one repair that would've been free at the dealer because the customer wanted it done NOW and had no problem giving me $400 to fix their problem because the dealer was scheduling a week out. The advent of the "non serviceable" component has also drastically increased repair costs. I just sent my techs to electrical mode 6 training as many drivability problems are caused by software issues in addition to component failure.
My family had a shop down in Westchester county (near NYC) since the late 30's. When my father wanted to retire, I did an analysis of the profitability of the business versus other uses of the land. I was able to show my dad how profits were in a pretty steady decline since they peaked around 2000. Much of that was due to environmental compliance issues (we were on the waterfront) costing a fortune, overall improvement in vehicle reliability, and decline in revenues from fuel sales. The latter was mostly the result of not being able to effectively compete with chain stores that got significantly better pricing. So even though we paid the staff pretty well, got them health insurance, etc, it got to the point where it was hard to attract and retain the best talent. The only way to offset the decline would have been to significantly up the labor rate to customers and make large investments in equipment and training to keep us relevant for newer vehicles. That was likely just going to result in chasing away enough price sensitive customers to make it a wash, at best.

In the end, it turned out to be significantly more financially rewarding to just raze the shop and use the property to build waterfront condos. Independent shops will likely linger for another generation or two and there will probably always be a market for high end specialty shops, but the typical mom and pop repair shop is going to be mostly gone in another generation or so. There just isn't much profit in it anymore.

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Old 03-21-2017, 11:38 AM   #11
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Default Re: GM Dexos is changing.

It's sad to see these shops going by the wayside. My love of cars began in just such a shop. You're right the margins are too thin for many shops to survive long term. When I was in college I did a business plan (this was around 2007) that involved opening an independent shop. I was aware of the costs involved in procuring the property, staff, and equipment. I came up with an approximate up-front cost of $1.75 million. There's no way the average person can get a loan for that amount and THEN make sure there's enough margin to make money. Insurance and environmental disposal costs are insane. Even still I hope that young people will still have an interest in vehicles down the road. Somebody needs to keep driving my 67 Newport chop top after I'm gone.

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Old 03-21-2017, 12:13 PM   #12
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Default Re: GM Dexos is changing.

The franchised dealer monopoly has been laboring long and hard to freeze out the DIY repair supply chains and independent repair shops. This all became a big deal back in the 50s when the initial do not rebuild designs for parts arrived.

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Old 03-21-2017, 12:28 PM   #13
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Default Re: GM Dexos is changing.

I suppose I can't blame them, they need to eat just like the rest of us. I wish I could've been around for the "golden age" of the automobile. Even though modern cars put food on my table I honestly can't stand 90% of them. Soulless blobs that all look eerily similar and poorly designed interiors. I've found most customers have no idea what the infotainment systems in their cars are actually capable of. I had a woman who ripped out her factory radio, paid somebody $500 to put in a $50 head unit. The unit she had before was perfectly functional, 6 disc changer, XM, Infinity unit. She didn't like the color of the display and didn't know she had (I stress had) XM radio. I think dealers need to actually teach people how to use these functions. The end game (in my opinion) is driverless cars that will reduce insurance payouts, injury, and traffic jams. Ever listen to "Red Barchetta" by Rush?

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Old 03-21-2017, 01:03 PM   #14
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Default Re: GM Dexos is changing.

The first time there is a software bug in a driverless car that kills someone it will be all over as the liability insurance cost will exceed medical malpractice insurance in cost. Think of something such as this: the high performance driverless car slams into a bus full of school kids on a school sponsored outing to the zoo, killing 4 outright, crippling 2 for life, and putting 6 in intensive care.

Anyone with any computer operating system experience knows this is only a matter of time. The quality of the present driver operated new car software and firmware is known to be buggy by the educated consumer as it is. Not to mention it all can be hacked remotely.

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Old 03-21-2017, 02:31 PM   #15
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Default Re: GM Dexos is changing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.644ffe3c2040

Quote:
A Tesla driver was killed in a collision in Florida with a tractor trailer while the vehicle was in "Autopilot" mode, the car maker announced Thursday. . . . "Neither Autopilot nor the driver noticed the white side of the tractor trailer against a brightly lit sky, so the brake was not applied," Tesla said

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Old 03-21-2017, 02:32 PM   #16
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Default Re: GM Dexos is changing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by buffalo14052 View Post
So i just talked to my valvoline rep today and he just received information that GM is changing their dexos certification. Basically any syn blend oil will no longer meet dexos 1 requirements starting August 1 2017. Valvoline states that the ONLY oils that will meet the new dexos 1 spec will be valvoline full syn with maxlife and valvoline full syn (a new product they are releasing at the same time). 5w30 maxlife blend will be produced but only by the qt and not in bulk. I'm personally surprised it took GM 7 years to figure out syn blend oil will not last the 7-9K most OLMs take to turn on. This doesn't change my outlook on the many follies GM continues to put in it's cars but at least folks that come into my shop now will finally be forced to put full syn in their cars and maybe extend the life of their timing chains. The reason I am posting this here is I run 5w30 maxlife blend in both my saturns (99sl 279k, 01sl2 142k) with success. Guess i can't get it by the drum starting in Aug. though.
I never have run syn blends. Just makes more sense to pay the small extra $$ for the full syn. Recently, I stumbled upon several Youtube videos that claim that the syn blend oils are in reality a big con game.

It seems that there are no requirements for how much synthetic oil has to be in the oil to legally call it a syn blend. Got to thinking about this and looked.

None of oils I looked at claimed a 50/50 blend or anything else for that matter. Could be 1/2oz of synthetic oil per quart or maybe just a drop per quart.

Don't know if any of this is true......but something to consider.

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Old 03-21-2017, 02:54 PM   #17
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Default Re: GM Dexos is changing.

Shell Rotella is also changing,

New 5W-30 Rotella T6 full synthetic,
http://rotella.shell.com/products/sh...eavy-duty.html

Going to have to give this a try...

Went to my Neice's wedding in November, San Anselmo California.
Not an S series in sight, no blue collar working class.
All white collar yuppies... $30-$40K Suv's and Xuv's
Then I saw the fire truck driving by, 1960's Lafrance pumper...
Hmmmmm....

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Old 03-21-2017, 03:11 PM   #18
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Default Re: GM Dexos is changing.

Awesome. T6 but in 5w-30 instead of 5w-40

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Old 03-21-2017, 03:40 PM   #19
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Default Re: GM Dexos is changing.

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Awesome. T6 but in 5w-30 instead of 5w-40
Not sure if they're going to axe the 5W-40, though I note that the last bottle I saw at Wallymart no longer contained the API SM rating on the label...just the diesel ratings. No idea if they reformulated it or just don't want to bother certifying it for gassers anymore.

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Old 03-21-2017, 06:19 PM   #20
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Default Re: GM Dexos is changing.

T6 5W-40 is still around...

http://rotella.shell.com/products/t6...synthetic.html

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