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Old 02-06-2017, 12:29 PM   #1
SgtDetritus
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Dazed Replacing or re-wiring the ignition switch.

Ok, I chased down the various problems my old SL2 has been having and it was the old ignition switch, which developed a short and then melting a bit of the wiring harness. I know the *proper* method of repair would be to replace that harness, but I have not the money nor inclination to do so.
Also, pick and pull junkyards charge about $10 to even get in. then you have to pay for the part, and I don't really know if they would let me just cut the plug and take it or if they would want me to strip the whole harness out and then pay for it.
So I have an idea. There are 8 wires that go into the plug, so maybe 6 circuits. A box of covered toggle switches (the kind that look like they belong in a jet) would be about $10 on amazon. The key turns to 3 positions-Accesory, Run, and start. If I am not mistaken, some circuits close on Acc, more on Run, and 1 circuit on start.
I want to take the toggle switches and wire them back to the harness.
Is there a good diagram somewhere or instructions on how to do this? I found some vague instructions that deal more with remote start systems, but I'm not totally certain which parts are relevant. I got a diagram of the plug, but it is not as helpful as I had hoped.
Thanks again guys, you're always a big help.!

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Old 02-06-2017, 01:08 PM   #2
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Default Re: Replacing or re-wiring the ignition switch.

Is the plug melted as well as some wiring?
If just wire, I would splice in a replacement wire and (if still good) reuse the pin.
I'd avoid doing what you propose to do, wiring in a toggle switch instead of just replacing the ignition switch.

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Old 02-06-2017, 01:34 PM   #3
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Default Re: Replacing or re-wiring the ignition switch.

Just the plug looks a little melted. There is no heat damage to the wires as far as I can tell. The old ignition switch is dead. The terminals on the wire are now covered and possibly distorted. I can't pull them to be sure.
Poor ol' yoda is so beat up that now spending much more than $50 on any given problem is no longer cost efficient That's why I'm looking at the toggle switch option

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Old 02-06-2017, 04:34 PM   #4
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Default Re: Replacing or re-wiring the ignition switch.

Oh, I only mentioned the wire because you said

"the old ignition switch, which developed a short and then melting a bit of the wiring harness. Thought you must mean wires or plug....

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Old 02-06-2017, 05:25 PM   #5
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Default Re: Replacing or re-wiring the ignition switch.

Try this link; http://workshop-manuals.com/

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Old 02-06-2017, 06:03 PM   #6
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Post Re: Replacing or re-wiring the ignition switch.

This should help!!

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CHECK YOUR OIL!!
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File Type: jpg Switch.jpg (171.2 KB, 15 views)

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Old 02-07-2017, 09:28 AM   #7
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Default Re: Replacing or re-wiring the ignition switch.

Thanks again guys! You are life savers. Will report back whe I get the switches and if I can make it look cool I will post pics

...
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Old 02-07-2017, 09:51 AM   #8
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Default Re: Replacing or re-wiring the ignition switch.

For the actual start command, it would be better to use a spring return switch so you can just let it go when the engine has started. It can be done with a normal toggle switch, but you must exercise care to disengage the starter (turn the switch off) immediately when the engine starts.

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Old 02-07-2017, 11:53 AM   #9
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Happy Re: Replacing or re-wiring the ignition switch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by toggenburg View Post
Oh, I only mentioned the wire because you said

"the old ignition switch, which developed a short and then melting a bit of the wiring harness. Thought you must mean wires or plug....
Thanks for catching that. I used to work building harnesses and I know the wire can degrade too. If not for that job though, I wouldn't have checked the wire, so it's always good to mention.

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Old 02-07-2017, 11:56 AM   #10
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Default Re: Replacing or re-wiring the ignition switch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BV22 View Post
For the actual start command, it would be better to use a spring return switch so you can just let it go when the engine has started. It can be done with a normal toggle switch, but you must exercise care to disengage the starter (turn the switch off) immediately when the engine starts.
The switches I am getting have covers that will flip the switch when pushed down, so I intend to use that mechanism. I also thought about building a large magnetic switch for the start, and I still might...

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Old 02-10-2017, 11:41 AM   #11
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Default Re: Replacing or re-wiring the ignition switch.

OK, I have the switches and an idea for where to put the panel and so on, so all that is left is the wiring. I took the posted wiring diagram and it illustrates a lot of stuff, but I found a huge gap...in my own understanding of wiring schematics.
Here is what I figure based on the information I have gathered so far from the plug and schematic:
Red wire in position A is positive. Red on position H is also positive. Black on position e is ground. the reds are noted on the schematic as red h and red a (Ithink). but in some cases red b is also mentioned, and that doesn't come from this plug.
My assumption is that I will need to connect via switch at least one red to the colored wire (pink f, yellow c, brown g, orange b). Judging from the new ignition switch, light green d, connects to ground as the key minder circuit.
My inclination is just to hook it up and go, but judging from the smell when I cracked open the old ignition switch, this is not neccesarily a great idea. I am lucky the wires in the harness seem to be ok.
I am making the guess that I should hook:

Lt green D to ground E (switch 1) key minder
Brown G to Red H (switch 2) radio, hazards, etc.
Orange B to Red A (switch 3) Acc circuit
Pink to Red A and Red H (Switch 4) Run circuit
Finally, Yellow C to I don't know (switch or button 5) Yellow is the Starter
This accounts for all circuits in the plug.

Am I on the right track, or am I missing something important? Also, what do I hook the yellow wire to?

...
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Last edited by SgtDetritus; 02-10-2017 at 11:42 AM.. Reason: typo

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Old 02-10-2017, 02:48 PM   #12
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Default Re: Replacing or re-wiring the ignition switch.

Yellow from the ignition switch is usually the 12v START signal/power fed to the starter solenoid. This part is where the ignition switch is held in the START position; a spring returns the ignition switch to the ON/RUN position when its released. As long as the ign switch is held in START, 12v power is fed to the starter relay to begin starter operation to turn over the engine. Once released and presumed the engine is running, the ign switch returns to the ON/RUN position, removing power to the starter solenoid. The starter solenoid is powered by the ign switch and battery power connects to the starter solenoid relay contact to allow battery power to run the starter motor. Once the starter solenoid disengages (ign switch released) the starter disengages from the engine flywheel while power from the battery is disconnected when starter solenoid power is removed. When you wire up a START switch, you might want to choose a spring loaded momentary type - held in the ON position like the original ign switch and returns to the OFF position when released. You can use a regular ON/OFF switch but must remember to manually turn it OFF as soon as the engine runs otherwise the starter continuously runs and you'll hear it.

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Old 02-10-2017, 04:07 PM   #13
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Default Re: Replacing or re-wiring the ignition switch.

I'm probably going to use a magnetic switch for the yellow (switch held open by magnets so it is not constant contact). Outside of that I'll use toggles.
Any thoughts on the wire pairings? I looked around and I think the yellow pairs with Red A. I'm fairly certain of the rest, I just want to know if I'm barking up the wrong tree.
Thanks for the help

...
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Old 02-10-2017, 04:22 PM   #14
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Default Re: Replacing or re-wiring the ignition switch.

If you follow the wiring diagram SRGW posted, you'll see three red wires, all are fused, to distribute 12v to various contacts in the ignition switch. They should be bundled together to feed 12v to yellow, orange, pink and brown wires. Yellow is the START wire to the starter with the remaining wires (lens, pink and brown) distribute among the accessory circuits and main ignition circuit (PCM, abs, etc.).

Caution about selecting a magnetic switch. Since the starter solenoid draws a few amps, anywhere between 3-8 amps, a heavy duty switch rated for around 10 amps should be used to ensure long term reliability. Anything rated less than 5 amps may burn out in the future since this starting circuit is used often.

Last edited by fdryer; 02-10-2017 at 04:27 PM..

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Old 02-10-2017, 04:44 PM   #15
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Default Re: Replacing or re-wiring the ignition switch.

I only see 2 red wires in the ignition switch plug. Am I missing something from somewhere else?

...
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Old 02-10-2017, 04:59 PM   #16
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Default Re: Replacing or re-wiring the ignition switch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
If you follow the wiring diagram SRGW posted, you'll see three red wires, all are fused, to distribute 12v to various contacts in the ignition switch. They should be bundled together to feed 12v to yellow, orange, pink and brown wires. Yellow is the START wire to the starter with the remaining wires (lens, pink and brown) distribute among the accessory circuits and main ignition circuit (PCM, abs, etc.).
First of all, thanks for your help. I really do appreciate your assistance on my daffy quest!
Second, dumb guy (me) sanity check:
The reds get bundled together and then go out to the Yellow, Orange, Pink, and Brown. I do not need to separate them. They are fused at different points.
sorry if i'm being a bit thick, I just want to make sure this works

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Old 02-10-2017, 05:41 PM   #17
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Default Re: Replacing or re-wiring the ignition switch.

There are no dumb questions when unfamiliar with anything. Leave that to our politicians.......

Think of power going to the ignition switch as 12 volts (fused) being distributed to the important things that have to be shut off to ensure the battery doesn't drain overnight. ACCessories don't need the EFI system to work so radio, wipers, blower and defrost grids can run. Ignition (I) supplies power to the EFI electronics, abs, cruise control, other modules controlling electronics, etc.. And last is power to the starter solenoid, START. In all, basically three circuits controlled by the ignition switch; Accessories, ignition and start circuits. With your setup using separate switches, you may have to make three RED wires crimped to the main red wire bundle to distribute 12volts to the three circuits.

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Old 03-06-2017, 09:59 AM   #18
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Default Re: Replacing or re-wiring the ignition switch.

OK, got everything wired and connected. When I flip the appropriate switch, the expected stuff comes on (Stereo, fan, etc) When I go to start the engine...not a dang thing. Nothing. I was worried there might be some sort of protection in there like Passlock. My car doesn't have that, it has the earlier generation Start Block relay or whatever it's called.

I read several posts and tried the following:
Turn the car to run and leave for 10 minutes, turn off and try again. No luck
disconnect battery, both sides, let sit, reconnect and try again....nope
Tried Jump start. nada

did some more reading and found richpin's video on getting the relay from behind the dash and putting a jumper in place to bypass that little security thingy. I also found a few other videos that did the same thing so I gave that a try. Still nothing. It doesn't even make a sound like it's trying to start.

What am I missing? I guess to be thorough, I'm going to double check all of my connections to make sure I did not introduce a short or something. I went through all of the fuses and they are all ok. I'm losing what is left of my hair on this one
Thanks again for ya'lls help

...
Rest in Peace, Yoda :-(
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Old 03-06-2017, 11:18 AM   #19
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Default Re: Replacing or re-wiring the ignition switch.

OK, this seems to be the START circuit that's intermittent. The yellow wire gets 12v and sends it to the starter solenoid as a purple wire. If you follow the yellow (brick road) wire, it should go to the starter interrupt relay that you bypassed, to the engine fuse panel, to the Park/Neutral safety switch on the xmission and somewhere along this path the yellow wire changes to purple when it ends up on the starter solenoid (the small gauge wire). If you disconnect this purple wire from the starter, you can check for 12v (safely) while the ignition switch is held in the START position or in your case whatever you use as the start switch (turned on, momentarily pressed, etc). The START signal is 12v so you can pin prick wiring to check for breaks anywhere. The purple 'S' wire will have 12 volts only when the ignition switch is held in START position or whatever you use for a start switch. You have either a START circuit problem or faulty starter. To test the starter on the car is simple.

Starter testing on the engine can be hazardous unless precautions are taken like ensuring xmission is in park with e-brakes on, ignition is off or removing the ignition and fuel pump fuses, pump relay, etc.. A screwdriver blade can be used to short two terminals on the starter, the large battery terminal and the small 'S' terminal on the starter solenoid. All this does is bypass the entire ignition system wiring by sending 12v to the 'S' terminal on the solenoid to run the starter immediately. Be aware that you're under the engine and the starter will engage to turn over the engine. Auto stores sell remote starters, two wires connected to a heavy duty momentary pushbutton with the end wires terminated with two alligator clips. Anyone can make up this remote start switch and connect it to the starter solenoid as described. Even two wires without the pushbutton can be used - clipped to the starter solenoid's two terminals and touching the two ends together does the same as if using the screwdriver or ignition switch.

These are two ways to separate a starter problem from a starting circuit problem.

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Old 03-06-2017, 01:04 PM   #20
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Default Re: Replacing or re-wiring the ignition switch.

Looks like I have an afternoon worth of fun to look forward to. My car is a manual tranny, so the circuit would run through a clutch switch, right?

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