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Old 12-06-2016, 10:41 PM   #1
Jimmy123
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Default Saturn TDI

Hello everyone, I am currently in the process of obtaining all the parts to convert a Saturn SL to a 1.9 VW Diesel. This has already been done once by user CFM over on TDIClubs , and I was so determined to build one myself once I read about it. Being the cheap guy that I am the fuel economy he achieved seems almost unreal to me, but I know it is possible!

So far I have the engine (a 1.9 AHU), wiring harness, ECU, Starter, Alternator, VW and Saturn CV axles, gas pedal assembly, fuel filter, and various other little parts needed. I still need to obtain a transmission (VW code EGR) and a Saturn to put it all in, along with a few other little odds and ends. I'm basically going to copy the methods used by CFM over on TDIClub.

If you want to know more about it reply to this thread.

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Old 12-07-2016, 12:52 AM   #2
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Default Re: Saturn TDI

Maybe check into local government auctions, for a rebuildable salvage vehicle. You plan on changing the engine and drive train. I would be interested to see how well this project goes for you.

I picked my 1995 SC2 out of a police impound auction, for $215. I am restoring mine, though. Gonna keep it all original, less some small bolt-ons.

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Old 12-07-2016, 07:46 AM   #3
Jimmy123
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Default Re: Saturn TDI

Here's a list of all the parts I've got so far:

1. Saturn CV Axles
2. 2 Passenger side VW CV Axles
3. Machined axle adapters to fit them together
4. MK4 gas pedal assembly with connector
5. MK3 gas pedal connector
6. MK4 shifter assembly with cables
7. MK3 fuel filter with check valve
8. Saturn Fuel Pump/Sending Unit converted to lift pump
9. Saturn Clutch Master and Slave Cylinder
10. Braided Steel flex hose for clutch
11. Saturn engine cradle
12. Stant 13519 In Hose Thermostat
13. Energy Suspension Coil Spring Damper Donuts (will be used as motor mounts)
14. AHU Engine with wiring harness and ECU

I've made a pretty good dent in all the parts I'll need to accomplish this, the only major parts I need now besides a Saturn to do it with is a transmission and a clutch and timing belt kit. I'm going to wait until I have the car and get everything all set into position before I start fabricating the mounts and all that stuff, just to make 100% sure everything fits right.

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Old 12-07-2016, 12:07 PM   #4
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Default Re: Saturn TDI

Can you post a link to CFM's build thread in the TDIClub? Any conversion should have pictures for the proud conversion.

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Old 12-07-2016, 01:57 PM   #5
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Default Re: Saturn TDI

Search works fine as it has been posted and linked here. It was a major project.

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Old 12-07-2016, 04:55 PM   #6
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Default Re: Saturn TDI

He posts under "Craig" here. One of the threads:

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=158100

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Old 12-07-2016, 05:54 PM   #7
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Default Re: Saturn TDI

Once my engine shows up (I just ordered it a few days ago) I will post pictures and show you guys what I'm working with. I'm pretty much following what CFM did to a "T" but with a few little tweaks here and there.

For instance, I'd like to keep the AC system intact and run it with the VW compressor, but I know I'll have to fabricate some new lines to make it work, along with figuring out how to wire the AC up, but I'm sure you guys could point me in the right direction. As far as the rest of the wiring goes I think I have it pretty much sorted out, such as for the gauges, check engine light, etc., but I just recently decided to try and keep the AC, because it gets well over 90 here in the summers and no AC sucks.

I'm going to do a power steering delete because I can't see a practical way to run power steering in this application, and these cars are very light and steer very easily without power steering, so it's not a big loss. I know that they offer manual steering racks for the S-Series, but I'm cheap and plan on just bypassing the pump, cutting the lines at the rack and running some rubber hoses to a "T" fitting and then to a small reservoir I can mount somewhere just to keep the rack lubricated.

I'm also going to have to modify the engine cradle and make a new crossmember to bolt the factory VW transmission mount to, and I'll have to drill holes for the bolts for the new motor mounts on each end of the drivetrain.

I've been researching and planning this out for over a year now, and have been slowly collecting the parts necessary to do this conversion, and I'm really enjoying the thrill and challenge of it so I'm going to keep you guys updated on how everything is going.

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Old 12-07-2016, 06:58 PM   #8
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Default Re: Saturn TDI

There are electric power steering pumps and over 30mph you don't need or want any assist anyway.

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Old 12-07-2016, 08:07 PM   #9
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Default Re: Saturn TDI

I have found the pinouts from the VW ECU that go to the AC climate control switch and the output from the ECU to the relay. Now I need to figure out where those wires are on the Saturn from the AC Switch to the PCM and the wire to the AC relay from the PCM, if any of you Saturn Gurus on here know that.

I'm really glad to see all you guys interested in this swap. I plan on documenting everything that I use to do this swap so that anyone can follow my guide and do it themselves without having to research a bunch of stuff and figure out with just pictures. I know what I'm doing is unusual but I'm really interested to see what kind of MPG I can get from this thing.

I think the Saturn S-Series engine bay was the same dimensions from 91-02, correct me if I'm wrong. Just wondering if I can use any year Saturn, but I'd like to find one that has a mechanical odometer (I think that stopped after 1998). Does anyone on here know what makes the odometer go up on these cars, I know there's no speedometer cable so I'd guess there's some kind of electric motor that spins a gear and makes it move? I really have no idea though so maybe you guys know.

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Old 12-08-2016, 10:43 AM   #10
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Default Re: Saturn TDI

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy123 View Post
I think the Saturn S-Series engine bay was the same dimensions from 91-02, correct me if I'm wrong.
Correct - the 91-92 subframe is slightly different but not in dimension (radiator fitment, IIFC). The subframes and engines for 93-02 will all swap, with various amounts of fiddling with other components

Quote:
Just wondering if I can use any year Saturn, but I'd like to find one that has a mechanical odometer (I think that stopped after 1998).
Late '97. I think it was toggenburg that mentioned his model year 1998 SW2 (mfrd 9/97) has a mechanical odometer. My 1998 SL2 has a digital odometer, mfr date 11/97
Quote:
Does anyone on here know what makes the odometer go up on these cars, I know there's no speedometer cable so I'd guess there's some kind of electric motor that spins a gear and makes it move? I really have no idea though so maybe you guys know.
OldNuc just posted this on another thread - the Saturn's Power Control Module sends a signal every so many pulses

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Old 12-11-2016, 10:29 AM   #11
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Default Update

I've been doing more thinking and planning in the last couple days and want to update you guys on the progress I've made. Firstly, I've figured out how I'm going to run the cooling fan thanks to a user over on TDIClub, I'm going to use a thermostatic switch like the one pictured here:


It will come on once the radiator reaches a certain temperature, + or - 5 degrees, so I plan on setting it to 190 degrees because that's what the TDI thermostat temperature is. I'm also going to wire it into the AC relay side from the VW ECU so that when I turn the AC on the fan automatically comes on with it. And since I'm using the Saturn fuse box I'm going to keep my manual fan switch (courtesy of the classic wolfman guide on here) just to be able to bypass the thermostatic switch in case it malfunctions.

I'm also working on the wiring diagram to combine the Saturn AC system with the VW ECU and AC compressor. I'm still ironing out the final details and will post that on here once I do. I know I'm going to have to fabricate new lines and reroute them but I won't be able to do that until I actually have the engine in the car to account for clearance issues and that sort of thing, but I've pretty much got the wiring figured out I think.

I'd also like to install cruise control on this vehicle one day, but I haven't even started figuring out the wiring for it yet, but I know it's possible to combine the VW system with the Saturn system as CFM did it on his swap, but that will likely involve retrofitting cruise control into a vehicle that doesn't have it. The reason I say that is because I'm looking for a Saturn that has manual everything (trans, door locks, windows) and I don't think those Saturns came with cruise control (correct me if I'm wrong). I remember seeing guides on here about installing cruise control on the S-Series but it's been a while since I've read through them.

I also scored a 2 inch square by 4 foot piece (1/8 thick) of iron that would make a perfect crossmember for my engine cradle. It looks like a part off an old engine support bracket and I can just cut it down to size to make it fit my application, because I'll only need a piece about 2 1/2 feet long, and I can use the leftover pieces to box in the ends and maybe make the brackets to bolt it to the cradle if there's enough left over.

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Old 12-11-2016, 06:28 PM   #12
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Default Re: Saturn TDI

^ The aftermarket mod shown has been done by at least one member here on a stock Saturn. My only suggestion is to determine where the fan control circuit is and run this mod in parallel. Presuming this switches power (from a Saturn cooling fan circuit), the mod will work without interfering with pcm control (in a Saturn cooling fan ckt). By this I mean the cooling fan relay ckt where the relay contacts, 30 and 87 in the main fuse panel closes and sends 12v to the cooling fan, you can wire this mod in parallel to either terminal 30 or 87, whichever has 12v sitting on it (engine off). Relay terminals 85 and 86 are pcm controls to power the relay from a fused connection.

If you're using VW wiring, the same may be applicable for a similar if not exactly the same circuit for cooling fan operation.

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Old 12-11-2016, 08:19 PM   #13
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Default Re: Saturn TDI

fdryer, when I was pouring through the ECU wires on the TDI I don't recall seeing anything going to the fan but it's very possible I overlooked it.

I just posted some more pictures of the parts over on TDIclub, just in case you guys wanted more of an update on how everything is going.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=470625

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Old 12-12-2016, 12:17 AM   #14
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Default Re: Saturn TDI

VW tends to have a temp switch in the radiator tank and that turns on the fan. The fan is a continuously power available system.

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Old 12-12-2016, 07:54 AM   #15
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Default Re: Update

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy123 View Post
It will come on once the radiator reaches a certain temperature, + or - 5 degrees, so I plan on setting it to 190 degrees because that's what the TDI thermostat temperature is.
The S Series runs a 195 degree Fahrenheit thermostat and the fan on temperature is 222 degrees. I imagine the VW engine would have a similar spread too.

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Old 12-12-2016, 09:31 AM   #16
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Default Re: Saturn TDI

Fan on is above atmospheric boiling temperature and fan off is just above thermostat crack opening setpoint. so on at 220 and off at 195-200 would work.

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Old 12-12-2016, 10:38 AM   #17
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Default Re: Saturn TDI

Everyone here knows this is a diesel engine right? Operating temp is 200-220 and no less. Fan kicks on at 210 or 215. Never lower the operating temp, nor operate for any length of time below 200 unless you got wads of cash laying around. They are not cheap to rebuild.

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Old 12-12-2016, 10:59 AM   #18
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Default Re: Saturn TDI

Water temp is measured in the radiator tank, not the engine. The actual specification is in the VW shop manual for that engine.

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Old 12-12-2016, 11:51 AM   #19
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Default Re: Saturn TDI

Why bother with adapting an old, stock computer? You can buy a used megasquirt 1 and just have it do whatever you want.

I paid under $100 for my last one. It doesn't care what kind of car you have.

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Old 12-12-2016, 01:55 PM   #20
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Default Re: Saturn TDI

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy123 View Post
fdryer, when I was pouring through the ECU wires on the TDI I don't recall seeing anything going to the fan but it's very possible I overlooked it....
Presuming you're transplanting this diesel engine, wiring and ecu onto a Saturn, you're using the cooling system specs for the diesel. This shouldn't be a problem mating Saturn's cooling fan to this setup presuming you have both wiring diagrams or will once you select a model. Wiring diagrams are available from alldata, Mitchell or http://workshop-manuals.com/. If I'm still around when you start this project with a specific Saturn, I may be able to provide wiring diagrams. Other members here may have access to manuals too.

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