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Old 03-10-2017, 11:15 PM   #21
Medtactics
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Default Re: Meds Garage Project

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Originally Posted by theviper121 View Post
I'm very interested to see your end results. Do you have the poly bushing kit installed yet? I have poly bushings and torque strut bushings in my sl1 and can say that it made a world of difference in high speed cornering. Seeing this makes me want a strut bar
Low end torque on the SOHC is even worse with no cat and a intake. However I have successfully towed 4000 pound trailers behind my SL1. I will see if I can find the pic I took of it with a 16 foot speedboat behind it
It is planned, but as I said, I forgot my grease (I know the kit comes with grease, but I'd rather have every bushing liberally greased, me no like squeaky) which is 300 miles away, going to end up tearing the front apart another time in the near future to swap control arms. Also planning on getting the pimped transmission mount.

Nothing like taking a corner fast enough to push ya out of the seat, even with extra hard economy summer tires.

I've never heard of a cat being removed reducing power unless the replacement pipe was a hackjob.

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Old 03-11-2017, 03:41 AM   #22
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Default Re: Meds Garage Project

Quote:
Originally Posted by theviper121 View Post
I'm very interested to see your end results. Do you have the poly bushing kit installed yet? I have poly bushings and torque strut bushings in my sl1 and can say that it made a world of difference in high speed cornering. Seeing this makes me want a strut bar
Low end torque on the SOHC is even worse with no cat and a intake. However I have successfully towed 4000 pound trailers behind my SL1. I will see if I can find the pic I took of it with a 16 foot speedboat behind it
When you delete the cat, you lose only marginal low-rpm torque. The torque value is typically INCREASED, but will occur at a slightly higher rpm. Peak HP is also improved.

On the DOHC, peak torque will occur at 4,900rpm(as opposed to 4,800rpm w/converter). Peak HP is increased, from 124bhp, to 133bhp @ 6,000rpm.

The only way cat removal would kill power output, would be in a scenario where the exhaust is already too large and flowing for the engine's displacement and flow characteristics(such as a "2Fast2Furious" Eclipse with a 5" turbo exhaust on the NA-tuned stock 2.0L DOHC engine). The exhaust would flow far too much, for proper backpressure to do its job of maintaining cylinder pressures at lower rpms. Torque would decrease dramatically, and peak HP would also suffer, as well as the increased chances of burning out the exhaust valves

...
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Old 03-11-2017, 10:21 PM   #23
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Default Re: Meds Garage Project

$800 later for a (partial) front end rebuild, will take pictures some time later of all damaged components. Did find a damaged caliper, leaking fluid, and massive rotor damage on driver side, both Tie-rod ends going, bad wheel bearings on both sides (installed incorrectly, no torque wrench was used), extreamly miner play in CV shaft on passenger side. I think that was all for now, all parts purchased can be found in the Screen Shots linked below.

SSs of invoice(s), quite a few parts being imported, expecting 8 boxes, first Christmas of the year.

https://imgur.com/a/n6BvO

And remember, "smiles per a gallon".

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Old 03-17-2017, 07:46 PM   #24
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Quick update, on Monday we had a snow storm and I ended up sliding off the road, it was in a small valley where the road angles down hill while the turn goes up hill and yhe wind rushes through and made an ice slick, everywhere else was just a wet powder coating being above freezing. Needless to say I hit a 5in diameter tree and another 3.5in dead tree at 45mph.

The first and second stage absorbers did there job on impact with 5in tree and the car suffered no structural damage as I aimed for dead center of the vehicle with no options left. The 3.5in tree was a grazing hit and turned into kindling, but came back to hit the windshield and dented the roof panel on the extreame passenger side

The only outstanding damage is the windshield, front bumper plus the plastic underneath, and fog lights as the lenses cracked from riding up the tree.


On the other hand I am being offered another free SC(? As described by my step dad) as the owner was only offered $50 at the scrapyard.

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Old 03-24-2017, 12:55 AM   #25
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Default Re: Meds Garage Project

Damn. Trees win everytime. You should be thankful you are alive. My cousin hit a tree(she fell asleep at the wheel), in a 1999 Pontiac Grand Am, and the radio was the only thing left of the car. She was nearly killed, and she wasn't going much faster than you were.

...
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Old 03-28-2017, 08:17 PM   #26
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Default Re: Meds Garage Project

Are you going to be throwing some taller strut assemblies in or spacers?

...
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2003 Saturn L200 120,000 miles - Given to my mother

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Old 03-29-2017, 09:01 PM   #27
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Default Re: Meds Garage Project

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Are you going to be throwing some taller strut assemblies in or spacers?
Coilovers, but now I'm looking for a low mile mint condition frame, mine had hidden rust issues on driver side, the weld pinch-point (jack stands point) failed spectacularly​ and embedded my stand through the foot well, the motor I estimate has 25-50k useful miles left.

Found a mule (a beater basically till I get the 99 in my car rebuilt ground-up) motor with stronger tie-plate (01 DOHC) to rebuild (will swap tie-plate later) with a 150k mile MP3 tranny.

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Old 03-29-2017, 09:21 PM   #28
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Default Re: Meds Garage Project

Pt-2

I did get the brakes done, was able the flush 3 of 4 corners, the RR corner needs replacing big time, twas pure black fluid for a break job supposedly done 15k miles ago...

Still waiting for my Tie-rod ends and forgoing and permanent body/frame modification, including the cam bolts and rear toe-plate, from this point on till I find another '99 that's a bit more structurally sound and completely rust free.

Also have a question. Sunroof, Yay or Nay? They do add ~50lbs and seem to be just plain trouble

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Old 03-30-2017, 05:07 PM   #29
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Default Re: Meds Garage Project

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Coilovers, but now I'm looking for a low mile mint condition frame, mine had hidden rust issues on driver side, the weld pinch-point (jack stands point) failed spectacularly​ and embedded my stand through the foot well, the motor I estimate has 25-50k useful miles left.

Found a mule (a beater basically till I get the 99 in my car rebuilt ground-up) motor with stronger tie-plate (01 DOHC) to rebuild (will swap tie-plate later) with a 150k mile MP3 tranny.
Well when you get coilovers tell us which ones you're getting. I'd like to eventually put some in with my cheap rally build/battlecar.

...
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2003 Saturn L200 120,000 miles - Given to my mother

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Old 03-30-2017, 10:05 PM   #30
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Well when you get coilovers tell us which ones you're getting. I'd like to eventually put some in with my cheap rally build/battlecar.
AMR engineering Coilovers ($2k) with ~500-600lb springs (another $1k potentially) to convert to true independent suspension ($500) which requires some sub-frame and control arm modification to A-arm design. At least that's the plan.

I have toyed with the thought of having two (three?) SC2 built, one for high speed road racing, and the other for off-roading. Can't forget the experimental SC2 for extream hypermiling.

Although lately I've been hearing some bad things about AMR taking over a year to build a set.

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Old 04-05-2017, 06:34 PM   #31
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Default Re: Meds Garage Project

Get yourself one of those front tow brackets they use for towing and cut off the protruding ends. Make some sort of bash bar by welding some tubes onto it.

Hmm....wait a minute, that's a great idea. lol

...
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Old 04-06-2017, 12:26 AM   #32
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Going to, need a front tow hook, too useful to not pass up.

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Old 04-10-2017, 09:19 PM   #33
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Update #7

Found my mileage issue, did a quick brake service two weeks ago.

Decided (again) now to go with 17'' wheels to fit a big brake kit, OZ alleggerita HLT, with 205/45-17 rubbers.

I completed ~9 70 to 10mph quick-stops while finishing the break in procedure resulted in complete brake fade. Unacceptable, considering future potential speeds.

I have looked at the SSBC kits, they only offer single piston iron calipers for the rear drum-to-disk kit, again, unacceptable. Not to mention zero part support.

Now I did find this new-ish company that will custom build entire brake kits and even *gasp* coilovers for any vehicle!? Name of the the company is Ceika performance.

Now for the current time I'm looking at rebuilding my new '01 DOHC mule motor and saving up to buy a roll-back flatbed truck for a 'second' vehicle. Then making a quest to find a low mile garage kept '99 SC2 with no sunroof to build off of, might even offer a bounty.

I estimate at most a ~1yr hiatus for any modifications, unless repairing.

In the mean time I hope to get my CDL and get an even higher paying job.

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Old 06-24-2017, 01:15 AM   #34
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So ya apparently I lied about not doing anything to the car. Got poly bushings which so far I got the rear sway bar and trailing arms (driver side broke). And then started striping the 3rd Gen of it's body to put on the 2nd Gen DD since I have a week of vacation.

Ordered a E-bay intake pipe and a velocity stack to play around with and some heat rated flex-tape, hardens like steel, for the exhaust leaks as the UK made Vortex Technology resonator and Catalytic converter cost $850, although for good reason considering all the fleet vehicle contracts their getting and on the professional racing side too.



3rd Gen to 2nd Gen body panel transfer guide;

Fair warning... It is not as straight forward as others say it is. I will do a written guide on it though as I believe no one has documented such a task... And I didn't bother taking photos to save time.

Doner car selection, must be same model (SC2 to a SC2, SL1 to a SL1, get the picture?), year does not matter... As long as it is a 3rd Gen that has all the same options. In my case I have all basic options on my SC2 except fog lights, sun roof, and spoiler. The spoiler will be replaced by the 3rd Gen ducktail trunk and rear quarter panels. But because I have basic options I can use a car that has all the *premium options.

Make sure rust damage on the forward and rear fender/bumber supports is minimal these are critical for panel transfer. Remove bumpers on doner car to quickly check these. You might have to source them.

*depending on your window lifts, electric or manually cranked, may require both doors completely gutted and disassembled for the window lifts to be transferred, depending on the doner vehicle. If you have electric cranked doner going on your manual cranked vehicle and plan to swap inside panels you will have to make a hole for the crank.

Time requirements;

Be sure to give your self three whole days minimum, four recommended. A second person will greatly speed up the disassembly, move and adjust doors, and help line up body panels during install.

Tool requirements;

Radio, what ever has the tunes you love, in my case SiriusXM and run the car every 4 hours for 15mins.
Mechanic's tool set, wrenches, ratchet sets, Flatheads, Philps, and Torque bits.
Body panel clip remover.
Interior panel clip remover/wedges.
Knife(s).
Power tools, drill with drill bits, small impact gun with quick-release 1/4 drive adapter, 3-4in cutoff wheel, Dremel with cutoff wheel and wire brush.
Rivit gun with 1/4 x 1/4 rivits, I used aluminum blind pop rivits.
At the least basic electric tools, wire cutters, strippers, and crimpers, electric tape, use 3M heat shrinkable crimps. The more advanced the better your work, especially on the crimpers.
Rust Converter in a spray can, get four.
A crawler will be your best friend.
Flood lights for when you don't plan on working into tomorrow.

If your bumper was crushed like mine you may need a BFH (Big ****ing Hammer) to beat the **** out of it to remove it.
Also a come-along and hard points around the car to do any basic frame pulling/straightening work.

You might need to rent a temporary Dumpster, or have a way to transport panels.


1st step remove all panels from doner (good place to practice);

Start by removing all body rivits on the exterior edge of all panels and side skirts. There should be 4-5 rivits under the trunk lid for the bumber and 3 under the hood for the bumber. The rear should be ready to pull out at this point, don't for get the wires for the backup lights. The front bumber cover will have 10mm bolt in the very center attaching it to the bumber. At this point you can slid the front cover off.

Now the side skirts, push them forwards, they should move about 1.5inches and then be able to pull sideways away from vehicle with doors open.

Fendors will require the headlights dismounted (2 10mm x2), now grap your T15 bit with flex able extension and open the front doors. Forwards of where the mirrors are located will be plastic caps for the fendors, remove the screw and plastic caps by sliding up and backwards, might need a wedge. Now exposed remove the 10mm, and then the 2 10mm on the fendors/bumper support. Switch to 8mm and remove the 2 bolts hidden by the skirt at bottom of fander, now remove the 8mm bolts under the hood side of the fendors, take care to not lose the Teflon washers. Fenders should just pull off.

Rear quarter panels, remove taillights (2x T15), slide them backwards to remove. Open doors and take out T30 bolts on passenger side, for driver side you need to remove body revits and rubber covers to get at the 2x T30s. Grab 10mm and remove lower bolts x2 that were hidden under skirt. Now go back to taillight mount and remove 2x 10mm, one is upside-down. If you can get away with it, remove the support brackets by removing the 10mm nuts, if not then remove bolts. Now remove the top most bolt located under the trunk lid.

Driver side: Grab a 15mm boxed end wrench to un screw the gas cap release cable nut. Un hook gas cap from panel or swap gas caps. Finagle with panel, should just fall off. Twist off gas release cable.

Passenger side: have a wedge ready, pull out panel on the forward side till you see the metal clip holding the panel, use the wedge to lift the clip upwards. Panel will probably need finagling on the rear-ended side, should fall off.

Remove the hood, 4x 10mm

Removing the trunk, disconnected the cable and wires. Use T15 to remove bolts holding the reflector plate to access license plate light harness, remove entire harness. Remove lock cylinder by sliding the metal tap up, cylinder should fall out. Replacing latch I believe is optional. Remove 4x 10mm holding trunk lid to hinges. Slide up off the hinges.

Remove rear quarter door panel with T30 bit, with all screws removed, remove panel from by grabbing bottom and pulling outwards.

For rear doors (SL model) I would assume be no different from from front doors, see front doors for removal process.

Finally, remove front door panels, remove all T30 bolts, grab T15 or #1 Philps and remove a screw/rivit for exterior window trim, located at rear-ward edge of door on the interior side. Grab 10mm and remove 3x nuts holding mirrors. Now grab a large nylon wedge and peel the trim up-and-coming from rear to front of door, hold rear side of trim up as you move forwards, trim should pop off. Now grab bottom portion of panel and pull out wards a little and then move up-wards. Panel should now be free.

Remove door, peel off outside sound dampener, disconnect wire harness and pull out of door and remove the rubber tubeing from door side. Take 10mm and unbolt door stopper. Unbolt hinges, 4x 10mm. Take door off.

Remove forward fender supports by using a punch on the rivits and then drill them out with 1/4in drill bit.

Rear fender supports, If the nuts where to badly rusted you can use a cutoff wheel on the nut/bolts.

Take this time wire wheel any rust on the supports and spray paint them.

Remove headlight brackets 3x 10mm, if bolts badly rusted use Dremel with cutoff wheel from engine bay side.

If everything came apart okay ( you might break some clips on the door panels) and satisfied with the salvage you may now start on the receiving vehicle using the same pattern except you start with the hood and trunk.

Remove hood and trunk on receiving vehicle, install doner hood and trunk, align them. Disassemble 2nd Gen trunk to retrieve license plate harness, install said harness into doner trunk, remove lock cylinder from 2ng Gen and install in doner trunk, you might need to swap latches. Check plate lights before reinstalling reflective cover and install your license plate.

Good place to stop if you need to go anywhere.

Start removing in same order again as with the doner car.

With all panels removed ho over rusted area with wire wheel, spray rust Converter as required.

If doors need window lift swap, have Windows a couple inches lowered, possibly easier with doors mounted, remove interior panels. On doner doors remove the T40 bolts completely and the 10mm. There will be tabs on the glass allowing the lift to slide forward off the glass. Do the same with 2nd Gen door, except partially remove the T40 bolts. Slide the lift forward and up out of mounting holes, slide off glass. The lift drops down to remove and goes up the same way to install. Slide transferred lift on to glass, lift and slide into mounting slots, tighten T40 and install 10mm.

Step two - reassemble

Mount the forward fender supports with rivits.

If rear fender supports were not removable, grind rest of stud down and use a punch to center new holes, drill (1/4in) the studs out and use rivits.

Mount doner doors and align them, don't forget to move 2nd Gen locks to doner door, same method as with the trunk.

Do any wire work as needed, I sniped the trunk mounted reverse lights from the sockets and feed them through the gas release cable groment, then reused the doner car harness (minus the connector) and crimped them together and used excess tube to cover exposed segment of wires. For taillight snip connector of doner car with enough wire to use crimps, 2nd Gen cut wires at connector. Both harnesses use same color code (I think?). Test modified looms by turning on lights and putting car in reverse.

SC only, unknown for other models. You will need to modify the driver door harness, other option is to swap latches, with the doner cars connector.

Now reinstall panels in reverse.

Double check alingments of every panel as you go, recheck alignment of hood and trunk

Install 3rd Gen headlight brackets, install headlight, align... And that should be all, now enjoy your aerodynamic 3rd Gen body with 2nd Gen interior (the best interior) monstrocity.

Last edited by Medtactics; 06-24-2017 at 01:25 AM..

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Old 06-25-2017, 09:02 AM   #35
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Default Re: Meds Garage Project

Saturn 2.5 Gen S-Series


Guide revision #1;

Make sure the doner car fender/bumper supports are in good condition.

On 2nd Gen use cutoff wheel to remove rear fender support and grind down the studs, paint exposed metal, fit rear quarter panels and attach supports, use a punch to mark the two holes and drill them with 1/4in bit. Use rivits to reattach supports.

Add a can of adhesive spray to your toolbox to reattach the outside environment/sound dampener on the doors.

Bumper cover does not have a bolt holding it, the deflector has 3x 10mm nuts holding it to the radiator shroud.

Driver side door harness is to not be modified, you must transfer the latch, be sure to adjust the exterior door handle rod, if correct height unachievable, use the rod from the 3rd Gen, unkown for SL and SW series doors. I was able to adjust my rods just enough.
Optional to replace passenger side latch, I did because it was about 3lbs lighter.

Last edited by Medtactics; 06-25-2017 at 09:09 AM..

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Old 06-27-2017, 02:13 PM   #36
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Default Re: Meds Garage Project

Holy crap. That is much more intense, than I would have imagined to to be, considering they are practically identical cars.

...
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1995 Saturn SC2 @ 181k - 17.2538 @ 77.91mph w/Stock TB
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Old 06-27-2017, 11:00 PM   #37
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Holy crap. That is much more intense, than I would have imagined to to be, considering they are practically identical cars.
Well major set backs such as the door panels and doors having different handle locations, having to swap the cranks was not fun either, that took 3-4 extra hours. Misplacing my 10mm and drill punch took another 3.

I would say that if I had to do it again that I could get it done in a day, without swapping window cranks or dealing with after-market speakers.

And there not being a guide in the first place did not help, only mention of a 2.5 Gen Saturn is that it is possible. So I possibly have the first documented 2.5 Gen. With the most likely first guide on how to do it.

Although... Technically is my car not a 2.66 Gen considering it has a 3rd Gen drivetrain?

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Old 07-01-2017, 07:36 PM   #38
Saturn Night
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Default Re: Meds Garage Project

Well, I would say 2.5, because there are two main components of a car:
Chassis/Body
Drivetrain

...
1991 Pontiac Grand Am @ 140k - More rust than paint & no leaks
1995 Saturn SC2 @ 181k - 17.2538 @ 77.91mph w/Stock TB
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Old 07-03-2017, 12:14 AM   #39
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Default Re: Meds Garage Project

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn Night View Post
Well, I would say 2.5, because there are two main components of a car:
Chassis/Body
Drivetrain
Well now it has a 3rd Gen Drivetrain (standard on '99 year) and frame (modified, only difference between 2nd and 3rd is the bumper/fender brackets)+body. Only thing not 3rd Gen is literally the PCM being located inside the frame and the interior.

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Old 07-03-2017, 07:25 PM   #40
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Default Re: Meds Garage Project

Can we agree on a 2.75 Gen, then?

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