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Old 06-27-2017, 02:25 PM   #81
Saturn Night
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1995 SC2
Default Re: Minor Street Build Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Medtactics View Post
I thought Saturn TB were 2.5in diameter? Inlet size can technically be whatever you want depending on the setup, you could use a 5in inlet if you have thing for higher inlet pressure. Or even crazier, F1 intake which acts as a depresserizer, to just be the same setup mentioned above.
http://www.saturnspot.com/showthread.php?t=28072

There are 25.4mm in each inch(2.54cm). The SOHC is 52.60mm(2.071"), off the Geo Storm. This is another modification, I am considering, but requires a new induction system.

The stock Saturn TB is barely 51mm. The DOHC Storm TB unit is only most beneficial to Saturn 1.9L engines that have been bored .030"/.060" over, as intake volume is greatly increased, and intake velocity is decreased slightly.

Your short-term/long-term fuel trims will automatically correct the change in A/F ratios, as the storm TB will typically leave you at about 15.2:1 air/fuel, at idle.

...
1991 Pontiac Grand Am @ 140k - More rust than paint & no leaks
1995 Saturn SC2 @ 181k - 17.2538 @ 77.91mph w/Stock TB
Mechanic: I can't fix stupid, but I can fix what stupid does.

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Old 06-27-2017, 02:50 PM   #82
Saturn Night
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1995 SC2
Default Re: Minor Street Build Questions

http://saturnpioneer.m.webs.com/site...sig_network=fw

Here is a better write-up, on use of the Geo Storm TB unit from both a SOHC and the DOHC. Stock Saturn TB inlet is 2.07", and the plate is 2.000".

...
1991 Pontiac Grand Am @ 140k - More rust than paint & no leaks
1995 Saturn SC2 @ 181k - 17.2538 @ 77.91mph w/Stock TB
Mechanic: I can't fix stupid, but I can fix what stupid does.

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Old 07-01-2017, 08:08 PM   #83
Saturn Night
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1995 SC2
Default Re: Minor Street Build Questions

Got my Geo Storm TB unit, today, for $25.

It is off the SOHC, since I don't have a turbo engine or anything really beefy. Mishimoto makes a 2", 90-degree elbow with 3-in legs, for about $14 @ Summit Racing, and it is even black like our stock S-Series ducting.

The 1994 Resonator assembly is EXACTLY the same diameter as the Storm SOHC TB Inlet. So, just make sure you get the correct elbow with 2" on each side.

I also procured a bunch of vacuum lines and the stock rubber connectors. Them way it will look very "stock", after it is installed.

Trying to come up with an idea for the bracket and throttle cable, which seems to need fabricated, essentially.

...
1991 Pontiac Grand Am @ 140k - More rust than paint & no leaks
1995 Saturn SC2 @ 181k - 17.2538 @ 77.91mph w/Stock TB
Mechanic: I can't fix stupid, but I can fix what stupid does.

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Old 07-28-2017, 11:58 PM   #84
Saturn Night
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1995 SC2
Default Re: Minor Street Build Questions

Well, I have an update for anyone still reading my quest of this build.

I installed the Geo Storm 1.6L SOHC throttle body, today.

It took a considerable amount of thinking and fabrication of steel bar stock brackets, to get the throttle cable routed correctly.

A few points of noting:

The IAC wiring has to be stretched to its maximum length, so it may be a good idea to nab the IAC pigtail from a dead Saturn and splice it into your factory harness, so you have the extra 1"-2" needed to have slack.

The TPS wiring can be moved and will plug right in, without any SES issues.

The PCV system WILL be a problem, if you use the stock bracket. Grinding the stock bracket a little on one side will get you clearance on the valve cover, BUT, you will want rubber vacuum hose for the PCV routing because the bracket will sit just below your rubber grommet, on aluminum valve covers.

The EVAP system is ported vacuum, NOT full vacuum, so using the Geo Storm stock ported vacuum connection is ok here. Some rubber vacuum hose is all you need.

The FPR is FULL manifold vacuum. While you can drill the manifold or tap from the brake booster vacuum signal, these seem to be much more difficult that moving the MAP sensor off its mounting, using a Y-fitting, and using one bolt to hold the MAP between the cover and manifold, and then route your vacuum limes to the MAP/FPR, while using a 90 fitting inside the stock rubber seal that goes into the manifold.

The inlet is just a hair over 2.75", which the 1991-1994 Saturn intake resonator is also 2.75", so for this you can order a Mishimoto 90 Silicone intake elbow from Summit Racing. They aren't too expensive(maybe $12-13). They have to stretch to fit on each end.

If the throttle cable is NOT pulled all the way out, inside the engine bay, you will NOT be able to achieve WOT. If you install either throttle body(SOHC or DOHC) and you gas pedal is low, then you need to move your cable and bracket to remove any slack. To achieve WOT, the pedal MUST have full travel to the floor.

When bolting the TB onto the manifold, you can NOT use the bolts from the stock TB unit. You can use the Geo Storm bolts, as they are M8 x 1.25 thread. They are a 5/16", 12-point bolt. So, a 12-point socket is needed.

When I get to the library, I will upload my video of testing the TB onto YouTube, and I will post a link here for those wishing to watch it.

You will notice an improvement in throttle response and part throttle acceleration, off a stop. In mid throttle ranges at lower rpms, there does seem to be a little loss compared to the stock TB unit.

I haven't tested WOT, yet. And next time I get to the track, I will post my times.

Fuel economy update will be within a week or so, as I just changed my oil and got a full tank, today. Not sure how it will affect my economy yet, but I want to say it may actually improve a little.

In conclusion, the SOHC TB is the best choice for an NA build. It is a perfect port match to the intake manifold.

If you are running a forced induction system(turbo/supercharger), then I recommend using the Geo Storm GSi DOHC TB, for the best performance gains


This is NOT what I consider to be a "novice" type of modification. If you are trying this modification for the first time(like I did today), it can be rough. If you aren't careful, you could bind the throttle cable or tear up your wiring. Make sure you have extra stock parts, so you can reverse the attempt if needed to maoe the car drivable.

...
1991 Pontiac Grand Am @ 140k - More rust than paint & no leaks
1995 Saturn SC2 @ 181k - 17.2538 @ 77.91mph w/Stock TB
Mechanic: I can't fix stupid, but I can fix what stupid does.

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Old 07-29-2017, 11:47 AM   #85
Saturn Night
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1995 SC2
Default Re: Minor Street Build Questions

Well, thanks to the demise of Microsoft and their stupid choices to try and emulate Android and Apple, I can no longer upload videos at my library. Idiotic library updated their PCs to Windows 10(which sucks to begin with), amd I have a Nokia Lumia 820. Microsoft's forums are riddled with threads about Nokia phones being unable to file transfer on Windows 10.

This sucks. Anyway, I have done some test driving with the TB on there. Even decided to punch it on a freeway on ramp(there were some pesky mosquitoes in the area....). It seems to smooth out that "lurch" of power you feel when you get around 3,500-3,800rpms on the stock TB unit.

For those with DOHC, you know what I am talking about. When you floor it or get above 50% throttle on a take off, it seems like the car struggles to accelerate until around 3,500rpms, and then it ROARS to life.

That effect is lessened. You still feel the "pull", but it is not as noticeable. I hope this doesn't mean power out put has been reduced, but only running at the track is going to be certain to the WOT effect of this modification.

...
1991 Pontiac Grand Am @ 140k - More rust than paint & no leaks
1995 Saturn SC2 @ 181k - 17.2538 @ 77.91mph w/Stock TB
Mechanic: I can't fix stupid, but I can fix what stupid does.

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Old 07-30-2017, 11:05 AM   #86
Saturn Night
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Posts: 1,981

1995 SC2
Default Re: Minor Street Build Questions

Not sure why, but using the Y-connector for the vacuum signal for MAP/FPR seems to make a big difference in the engine performance.

I switched the routing, as a test, got CEL for Code 45(Rich Condition as detected by the O2 sensor for more than 1 minute).

In that test, I had the straight vacuum line connected to the MAP, and the "Y" fitting hooked to the FPR. The car ran rough, drove poorly, and even had some hard shifting, and I went from "F" to 3/4 within 30 miles. Engine smoked a lot more, as well.


So, I changed it back to the original routing of the straight connection to the FPR and the Y connection to the MAP.

Under WOT, the power curve os shifted about 200-300rpms further, and that lurch of power is most noticeable around 4,000rpms, now. This should put peak HP around 6,200-6,300rpms, making "Performance" mode better for my ETs

...
1991 Pontiac Grand Am @ 140k - More rust than paint & no leaks
1995 Saturn SC2 @ 181k - 17.2538 @ 77.91mph w/Stock TB
Mechanic: I can't fix stupid, but I can fix what stupid does.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

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