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Old 09-06-2016, 12:10 AM   #61
Saturn Night
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1995 SC2
Default Re: Minor Street Build Questions

Ok. Recap of planned parts

1991-1992 DOHC manifold + Y-pipe
1992 Direct-Fit O2 sensor
Catalytic Converter Delete
P/S Delete Rack Conversion/Swap
Air Box Conversion to simulate RAM AIR w/Spectre synthetic air cleaner or a K&N


I'm thinking I should get close to 8hp total, shy of where I want to be, but with the reduced load on the engine, I should be able to see my fuel economy improve by a decent amount.

Thanks for the help, Fido. I was planning on replacing the outer tie rods, anyway. Feel free to continue adding any additional information you have from your experience with this. It has been most helpful.

...
1991 Pontiac Grand Am @ 140k - More rust than paint & no leaks
1995 Saturn SC2 @ 181k - 17.2538 @ 77.91mph w/Stock TB
Mechanic: I can't fix stupid, but I can fix what stupid does.

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Old 09-06-2016, 11:28 AM   #62
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Default Re: Minor Street Build Questions

A bit more info on the rack de-powering: http://sixthsphere.com/showthread.ph...ual-conversion
Dual intake cams (best done with a timing chain replacement): http://sixthsphere.com/showthread.ph...ntake-cams-2-*
Throttle body from a DOHC Geo Storm (GSI? not sure...), hard part is boring out our IM to take advantage of the nearly 1/4" larger bore TB and slightly relocating the throttle cable: ID The TB and install it
Fidenza 7lb aluminum flywheel (might be only steel 10lb options now, not sure)
Total upgrade option list, way out of date because most of the company's went belly-up 5-10 years ago Performance Parts Info but it's better than wondering what is (or..."was") out there.
From the junkyard to the track engine build

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Old 10-11-2016, 11:49 AM   #63
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Default Re: Minor Street Build Questions

A real quick update:

From my previous post on the brakes, the MC was actually leaking. The secondary cylinder O-Ring to my reservoir was leaking, and there were traces of brake fluid at the surface of the booster-to-MC mounting. Even after pulling it, I couldn't see fluid leaking. T braking system seems to be fine, now. Picked up a used MC, that had virtually no corrosion in the reservoir for $15 bucks.

As far as the exhaust, I scored a factory 1992 Twin Cam header for $40, today. Gonna head out to another yard, tomorrow to see if I can get the Y-pipe used with all the brackets. If I can't, a reputable muffler shop can get the Y-Pipe/gaskets AND the mounting bracket for a little over $200 + $90 to install it.

And as far as inspection?

Well, it would appear that the Ohio State Highway Patrol has almost a 1-month backlog. I called on Oct. 5, and the patrolman said the soonest he could inspect the vehicle was Oct. 31 @ 10:15am EDT.

I purchased a Dremmel tool, so I may just decide to utilize the "de-powering" method on my P/S unit, as opposed to deal with the hassle of trying to do a conversion, because that seems to actually be much easier.(Ironically)

And for the intake??? This seems to be a little tricky. I measured the TB OD, and it appears to 2", BUT the airbox flange is 2". Fabricating something would be possible, until I factor in placement of the flange for the oil breather line coming from the exhaust camshaft area of my valve cover, and I figure I could just cut/thread a hole for the IAT sensor.

Now, here is something that perplexes me, with the stock intake design. Why is the inlet from the air cleaner a 2" flange, where it later flows into a 2" hole. Wouldn't this be more restrictive, because of "bottle-necking" the air flow at WOT?

Even at part throttle, unless you had above 15 PSIA(0 PSIG) in the ram, I see no real benefit from this design. Maybe with a RAM-air setup, the buildup of pressure in the ram would help improve intake velocity at part-throttle. However, the stock intake kits are not RAM-air.

I would think a straight piece or 2" pvc pipe would provide more more consistent air velocity and volume, by reducing turbulence of the "bottleneck" at the throat to the throttle plate.

...
1991 Pontiac Grand Am @ 140k - More rust than paint & no leaks
1995 Saturn SC2 @ 181k - 17.2538 @ 77.91mph w/Stock TB
Mechanic: I can't fix stupid, but I can fix what stupid does.

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Old 10-12-2016, 07:09 PM   #64
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Default Re: Minor Street Build Questions

http://www.carid.com/1995-saturn-s-s...173044194.html

I have found my wire set. Now, for the coils.

Oh, and these wires are 0.000 ohms of resistance.

Tested on a 2010 Chevrolet Camaro, being built by the manufacturer of these wires, it showed a 26 HP gain and 19 lbs-ft of torque, vs stock wires.

Here is the video of that test:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M2FEyjs_wKc

...
1991 Pontiac Grand Am @ 140k - More rust than paint & no leaks
1995 Saturn SC2 @ 181k - 17.2538 @ 77.91mph w/Stock TB
Mechanic: I can't fix stupid, but I can fix what stupid does.

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Old 10-14-2016, 05:59 PM   #65
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Default Re: Minor Street Build Questions

Intake system is done. Do NOT waste your money on expensive "kits".

I was able to emulate the EXACT routing of those $200 kits, and still able to utilize the oil breather line and IAT sensor without any drilling, cutting, etc.

Get the induction system from a 1991-1994 Saturn Twin Cam.
Remove the airbox and front rubber hose.
Get a 1985-1991 Pontiac Iron Duke 2.5 Intake tube from the N-body/A-bidy.(Grand Am, Skyhawk, Skylark, Century, Calais, Ciera, Celebrity).
Purchase a Spectre 3" Universal Air Filter(6.25" length)
Purchase the Spectre 3" Vacuum/Sensor Tube.

This cost me $68 total, and it is a perfect fit with the air cleaner right in front of the battery.

...
1991 Pontiac Grand Am @ 140k - More rust than paint & no leaks
1995 Saturn SC2 @ 181k - 17.2538 @ 77.91mph w/Stock TB
Mechanic: I can't fix stupid, but I can fix what stupid does.

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Old 10-18-2016, 11:54 AM   #66
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Idea Re: Minor Street Build Questions

https://youtu.be/yx0lbb2oQcw

Here is a link to my custom intake, being installed on my 1995, for those that want to make some very affordable power.

...
1991 Pontiac Grand Am @ 140k - More rust than paint & no leaks
1995 Saturn SC2 @ 181k - 17.2538 @ 77.91mph w/Stock TB
Mechanic: I can't fix stupid, but I can fix what stupid does.

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Old 11-13-2016, 06:32 PM   #67
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Default Re: Minor Street Build Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by fetchitfido View Post
Not many people have done it and it "doesn't work" all years because the U-joint connecting the rack to the column is different for the manual racks. Only reason I wasn't highly annoyed (NONE of the "guides" mentioned this at the time) was because the donor and receiver cars were about 5ft apart.

1st gen SC2's have the quickest ratio rack from the factory, it'd be a smarter idea to de-power your current rack rather than swap to a manual. Guide: https://www.flyinmiata.com/tech/depower.php?x=1

As your DOHC is still mostly 1st gen you should be able to get a no PS no A/C belt from a SOHC and delete both systems without the hassle 2nd and 3rd gens have.
Well, I went ahead and got a Power Rack 'N' Pinion from a local salvage yard. I figure it would be a good idea to depower the NV7 rack, since they are more plentiful in boneyards, than the manual racks(manual racks must have been straight junk or maybe there just weren't alot of them out there to begin with).

There are a few differences, from the Miata rack, that I would like to touch base on: instead of a cover bolt for the nut holding the pinion gear in place, there is just a cap. Removal of this cap shouldn't be too difficult with the proper tools. In my case, I damaged mine.

There are plastic caps over the inner tie rods, and looking at the design, they should just pop off to expose the flat spots for unscrewing the inner tie rods. I recommend leaving the pinion gears in place, as once the pinion has been removed, the shaft will spin inside the housing. I wound up cutting those plastic shields off altogether. I hope that doesn't come back to bite me in the ass later on.

As far as the pinion gear goes, there are multiple seals and tiny weep holes drilled into ours. Not sure if that os because of the "NV7" variable assist option, or if that is normal. Not sure if that will affect reliability upon reassembly and installing into the car.

...
1991 Pontiac Grand Am @ 140k - More rust than paint & no leaks
1995 Saturn SC2 @ 181k - 17.2538 @ 77.91mph w/Stock TB
Mechanic: I can't fix stupid, but I can fix what stupid does.

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Old 02-09-2017, 10:08 PM   #68
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Default Re: Minor Street Build Questions

I didn't even realize this dead thread was still on page one, until I scrolled down just now..

Since I have gone "Against the grain", just a really quick update for anyone that is interested in following my build:

I have the exhaust done, with the Y-Pipe. The catalytic converter has been removed for straight pipe, with all other parts of the exhaust being stock.

The cold air has been fabricated with junkyard parts, and I have a 2:30 youtube video uploaded for those that would like to add performance, without spending $300 on a "kit". It is two/three HP, regardless of which kit you buy, with a few rarer kits adding as much as 6hp.

The P/S system has not been deleted yet, but an almost dismantled rack-n-pinion assembly lies in my spare bedroom, awaiting further teardown to complete this task. Thanks to the nylon jam nuts, I am awaiting having access to a proper torch for heating the nylon off for easier removal.

Spark plugs are now E3 Diamond Fire

Wires are Grantelli 0-ohm MPG wires(and they do make 0-ohm HP wires, whic cut your low-rpm a little but add more power above 5,000rpm)

Coils are Accel 45,000v.

Oil is Rotella T 10w-30 conventional, mixed with 50% Dex-III ATF.

Transmission is automatic, with a rebuilt VB from Special Forces.

Oil Filter is K&N Perfomance Gold

Tires are Cooper tires, just some plain-Jane H-rated, all-season sport P195/60 R15, with stock alloy tear drop wheels.

A/C removed completely. Only the part, that is inside the HVAC unit itself, is still inside the car. All the lines, condenser, evaporator, and compressor have been discarded.

As of current, the engine is still burning oil. Despite the worn valve guides, so far, a random misfire that would occasionally occur during acceleration periods, or heavy load(such as a steep hill), has disappeared completely. The rattling at around 2,200rpm(55mph) in my sunroof has disappeared as well.(Indicative the car has less overall vibration, despite having not replaced any of the engine mounts), and my fuel economy has skyrocketed from around 30-32mpg city/highway, to almost 40mpg. Oil consumption is still around 1qt per 200 miles, which I doubt will ever actually improve because I think the valve guides are shot to hell, from the previous owner letting the oil leak from the valve cover(ir was sealed with orange silicone when the car was purchased). I have no "Service Engine Soon" DTCs stored in the PCM. No warning lamps at all, are illuminated, other than the seatbelt, coolant, air bag during initial power on and starting, etc.

Currently, I have driven almost 300 miles on 7.2 gallons of fuel, since changing the oil and filter to this combination. Granted, this has been driving as legally and conservatively as possible.

I have not, and probably can't afford to put it on the dyno, as of yet. Come income tax refund, I may have the engine rebuilt. Not sure if I want to mess with it, just because of the drastic fuel economy improvement. I can literally drive up to 120 miles, from the 1/4 line, to the "E" line(which is still 1.5-2 gallons left in the tank). And it seems to only take between 3-3.2 gallons to move the needle from "E" to 1/4 tank.

So, yes, I expect the critics to come out. But, to each his own. My choices are actually working, as I intended them to do for the fuel economy part. I won't know the exact power output, until I can find a shop with a chasis dyno, in my area.

After the power steering is gone, I hope to break 40mpg with the MP7. I think I am keeping my TAAT, although a 5-speed with the MP2 5th gear swap could probably put me over 50mpg.

...
1991 Pontiac Grand Am @ 140k - More rust than paint & no leaks
1995 Saturn SC2 @ 181k - 17.2538 @ 77.91mph w/Stock TB
Mechanic: I can't fix stupid, but I can fix what stupid does.

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Old 06-17-2017, 01:43 AM   #69
Saturn Night
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Default Re: Minor Street Build Questions

Took some time trial runs, at Quaker City Motorsports Park, in Salem, OH today.

My best run was a 17.2538 @ 77.91mph, which puts my stock 124 hp at about 100 hp from the leaking valve seals and oil consumption.

Overall, the car ran VERY consistent times up to the 1000' mark, in all 7 time trials. Managed to shave a full second from my ETs, by removing extra oil jigs and tools from the trunk and using "Normal" shift mode(ironically). There was not a big change in my trap speeds when doing this, but the 2/10 of a second off the -mile ETs tells me it helped with the top end, to have the engine only run to 6,100rpms, instead of the redline, before shifting.

Can't wait to have this engine rebuilt, which a guy at the track provided me with a phone number for an engine builder in Middletown, OH.

I am hopeful

...
1991 Pontiac Grand Am @ 140k - More rust than paint & no leaks
1995 Saturn SC2 @ 181k - 17.2538 @ 77.91mph w/Stock TB
Mechanic: I can't fix stupid, but I can fix what stupid does.

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Old 06-17-2017, 04:53 PM   #70
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Default Re: Minor Street Build Questions

Good for you, and nice to see ya making progress, finally figured my CAT is done for after replacing/testing everything except the motor internals and the transmission.

My last test was the fuel pressure which runs at 56psi with 2psi leak-down when off, haven't really tested overnight leak-down.

Between the huge increase of bypass and oil-consumption, not to mention ****ty mileage, all of a sudden and the only thing I have not replaced, the exhuast.

Just bought a bunch of RVS and my OBX header and just shot a couple e-mailed out, one to vortex exhaust technology, and a local performance shop that specializes in high performance off-road vehicles.


Having a hard time deciding between no intake pipe (Bell-mouth Intake and have to make lots of measurements) or that cheapish e-bay pipe... Or just be the big spender on AEM... Got two more months of work income history to build before I can get an apartment or such anyhow. Annddd I might have spent close $4k on parts and tools, so what's another $300?

Last edited by Medtactics; 06-17-2017 at 04:59 PM..

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Old 06-18-2017, 03:28 AM   #71
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Default Re: Minor Street Build Questions

The best intake system to use would be one that allows for high velocity. A bell-mouth intake system may not be effective, not because of volume, but lowered velocity of air.

It cost me $68 in junkyard parts, to fabricate my air intake system.

My Saturn was nicknamed the "Smoking Saturn", and I was acknowledged for helping keep the mosquitoes away from the track, last night.

I am considering the SOHC Storm throttle body. The DOHC TB unit is really only beneficial, when you have a bored out block to take advantage of the larger size throttle. The SOHC doesn't add as much performance, but doesn't require as much modification.

I may also just use the plate, and port a stock Saturn TB unit, as well.

What was ironic, my final time trial, I pulled a .0351 reaction to green. I came out of the hole, by almost 3 car lengths on my friend in his 2016 Chevy Cruze LT. He had a .4448 reaction, and only beat me by .1669 seconds at the finish line. He literally beat me by a license plate bracket.

There are a few things I learned, from my experience:

With Automatic, use "Normal" mode. This will prevent the engine from winding all the way to 6,500rpm, before shifting. The RPM drop is about 2,000rpm per gear changes, so yes, it does drop you further from the peak torque. But, it shaved 2/10 of a second from my ETs as well.

Unplugging the IAT did NOT help my ETs. It actually cost me 3/10 of a second, in the final race. Had I left the engine alone, I would have beaten my friend in that race. I ran a 17.5583 @ 76.77mph. He ran a 16.9xxx and was using his manual option. Had he used his automatic 6-speed the way it is programmed, he would have crushed me.

The lockup torque converter IS ENGAGED in 1st gear, during WOT. There was no delay of the TCC lockup, after the gear change from first to second.

My best run was achieved at an engine temperature around 160F, however at 185F the car consistently ran in the 17.4xx ranges with the "Performance" mode on. It just so happened that the "Normal" mode run was after my engine had nearly cooled down during a break for other classes to run.

Converter stall speed is 2,000rpm, which still males enough torque to break the tires loose on your launch despite being well below the torque curve of the engine, due to the multiplication of the torque converter against the stopped input shaft of the transmission. This torque multiplication is effectively eliminated by the 60ft mark, however.

In terms of bracket racing: You WANT a TAAT, instead of a 5-speed. The 5-speed may have better ratios and is overall quicker, BUT there wasn't a single manual car there that could beat the TAAT shifting consistency. That transmission shifted so consistently, I could literally watch the gear changes at the same spot of the track on each run. It did not miss a single shift. Not one. And it would shoft at the same rpm everytime.

...
1991 Pontiac Grand Am @ 140k - More rust than paint & no leaks
1995 Saturn SC2 @ 181k - 17.2538 @ 77.91mph w/Stock TB
Mechanic: I can't fix stupid, but I can fix what stupid does.

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Old 06-20-2017, 05:17 PM   #72
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Default Re: Minor Street Build Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn Night View Post
https://youtu.be/yx0lbb2oQcw

Here is a link to my custom intake, being installed on my 1995, for those that want to make some very affordable power.
Man, that's exactly the direction I'm taking, I'm planing on using an Apexi filter.

I was browsing ebay for pictures, I saw some of the Pontiac 90 degree pieces had small square resonators on top. Do you think it would be beneficial or would it be better to stay with a plain tube?
I know 1st gen's used two, the one off the box and the one under the main tube.

...
'96 SL1 Originally the family car, passed on to me as my first. "Hellcat" 226,000+ miles and purring smooth.My Mug is filled with the lost souls of imports.
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Old 06-20-2017, 09:47 PM   #73
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Default Re: Minor Street Build Questions

A plain tube is technically best, but under certain conditions and how well the inlet is designed (filter) will determine results.

The multi-pipe, aka Passive Variable Length Intake, works under most conditions, but has the same requirements for a well designed inlet(s), and now you have the splitter/collector design to account for too.

A resonator on the pipe is unnecessary for a pipe so small, but reduce intake noise and allow for design imperfections without impacting performance.

The best intake setup is a Active Variable Length Individual Throttle Body Intake.

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Old 06-21-2017, 07:26 AM   #74
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Default Re: Minor Street Build Questions

Ah, ok. I've been readind around the site and resonators and air pressure waves seem to be fairly important to system velocity. though I think, I thought that one was more neat then actually useful, but i dont know. so I figured I'd ask. Yeah, best to keep it simple a 90.

...
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Old 06-21-2017, 12:39 PM   #75
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Default Re: Minor Street Build Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nekomimi View Post
Man, that's exactly the direction I'm taking, I'm planing on using an Apexi filter.

I was browsing ebay for pictures, I saw some of the Pontiac 90 degree pieces had small square resonators on top. Do you think it would be beneficial or would it be better to stay with a plain tube?
I know 1st gen's used two, the one off the box and the one under the main tube.
I used the stock resonator from the 1994 Intake system on Twin Cams, myself.

If the car is daily-driven or used for street-use, then you want the resonator on there. Aside from the noise-suppression characteristics, it help balance the intake pressure waves throughout your rpm-range.

Since low engine rpm translates to low average piston speed, you have low intake velocity(countered by the "garden-hose" effect of the throttle plate) and low-intake volume. Air has mass and takes up space. Therefore, the inertia generated by the negative forces of valves closing during the compression stroke are less likely to disrupt the flow of the incoming air velocity and direction.

If the engine is being used for race-only applications, the resonator may be removed without too much detriment to your power output. Saturn engines benefit from high intake velocity, moreso than high intake volume(both are still important), due to the "undersquare" design. The stroke is greater than the bore diameter. Air doesn't need to expand as wide to fill the cylinder properly, BUT it does need to travel further into the depth of the cylinder.

A resonator can sacrifice high-rpm velocity, due to the fact that it diverts SOME of your incoming air into the resonator, as air will travel the path of least resistance(like water or any other free-moving object in motion or electricity will).

...
1991 Pontiac Grand Am @ 140k - More rust than paint & no leaks
1995 Saturn SC2 @ 181k - 17.2538 @ 77.91mph w/Stock TB
Mechanic: I can't fix stupid, but I can fix what stupid does.

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Old 06-21-2017, 12:41 PM   #76
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Default Re: Minor Street Build Questions

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVdYsR28YJM

Here is a link to my 17.2538 @ 77.91mph run. Notice the signature Saturn engine characteristics of blue smoke?

...
1991 Pontiac Grand Am @ 140k - More rust than paint & no leaks
1995 Saturn SC2 @ 181k - 17.2538 @ 77.91mph w/Stock TB
Mechanic: I can't fix stupid, but I can fix what stupid does.

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Old 06-21-2017, 12:45 PM   #77
Saturn Night
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1995 SC2
Default Re: Minor Street Build Questions

Ultimately, I am going to source a set of flat-faced valves from a 1991-1993 cylinder head, as well.

I am still "Up-In-The-Air", about running dual-intake camshafts on the stock PCM. I think it will shift my power band too far past the 6,500rpm redline and drop the torque curve at lower speeds considerably.

If I can find a dyno test, showing what effects it will have on the engine, I will be able to make a better-informed decision.

Wonder what happens, with dual-exhaust camshafts......

...
1991 Pontiac Grand Am @ 140k - More rust than paint & no leaks
1995 Saturn SC2 @ 181k - 17.2538 @ 77.91mph w/Stock TB
Mechanic: I can't fix stupid, but I can fix what stupid does.

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Old 06-22-2017, 03:19 AM   #78
Nekomimi
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Default Re: Minor Street Build Questions

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Originally Posted by Saturn Night View Post
I used the stock resonator from the 1994 Intake system on Twin Cams, myself.

If the car is daily-driven or used for street-use, then you want the resonator on there. Aside from the noise-suppression characteristics, it help balance the intake pressure waves throughout your rpm-range.

Since low engine rpm translates to low average piston speed, you have low intake velocity(countered by the "garden-hose" effect of the throttle plate) and low-intake volume. Air has mass and takes up space. Therefore, the inertia generated by the negative forces of valves closing during the compression stroke are less likely to disrupt the flow of the incoming air velocity and direction.

If the engine is being used for race-only applications, the resonator may be removed without too much detriment to your power output. Saturn engines benefit from high intake velocity, moreso than high intake volume(both are still important), due to the "undersquare" design. The stroke is greater than the bore diameter. Air doesn't need to expand as wide to fill the cylinder properly, BUT it does need to travel further into the depth of the cylinder.

A resonator can sacrifice high-rpm velocity, due to the fact that it diverts SOME of your incoming air into the resonator, as air will travel the path of least resistance(like water or any other free-moving object in motion or electricity will).
Mainly I'm just maxing out the stats of a DD, witch can get-up and go decently.
I already have the DOHC intake tube, it was a very pleasing swap. Guess I get to play with tubes the next time I hit the salvage, going to try and find something similar to this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/99-PONTIAC-G...pYr06N&vxp=mtr

The science behind this is an interesting subject, it has my gears turning haha.

...
'96 SL1 Originally the family car, passed on to me as my first. "Hellcat" 226,000+ miles and purring smooth.My Mug is filled with the lost souls of imports.
I Want SAAB Soccerballs. But they're 4x115

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Old 06-22-2017, 04:19 AM   #79
Saturn Night
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1995 SC2
Default Re: Minor Street Build Questions

That looks like the 2.4L Junk Cam intake tube. I believe it is 3.25" diameter, and will be too large diameter to fit on the intake tube of our Saturn 1.9L.

You want a tube, that is 2" on the end toward the TB, and 3" on the end for the air filter. You will want to change the TB boots and tube, because our TB is only 2" diameter.

Also, that tube is the wrong direction for the Saturn induction system. 2.4L Junk Cams have an intake that flow from the driver's side shock tower, across the front of the engine bay, amd downward into the TB unit.

To get the correct direction of travel, with that setup, will require that piece to be installed upside down. This will put the resonator ABOVE, instead of below the tube, which then becomes an issue with hood clearance.

3400 SFI engines used a 30 boot, from the TB, to the airbox. They are 3, or 3" diameter, and are too large.

1985-1991 Pontiac 2.5L tubes are a perfect fit to the 1991-1994 Saturn intake tube w/integral resonator assembly I used.

...
1991 Pontiac Grand Am @ 140k - More rust than paint & no leaks
1995 Saturn SC2 @ 181k - 17.2538 @ 77.91mph w/Stock TB
Mechanic: I can't fix stupid, but I can fix what stupid does.

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Old 06-26-2017, 01:49 AM   #80
Medtactics
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1999 SC2
Default Re: Minor Street Build Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn Night View Post
That looks like the 2.4L Junk Cam intake tube. I believe it is 3.25" diameter, and will be too large diameter to fit on the intake tube of our Saturn 1.9L.

You want a tube, that is 2" on the end toward the TB, and 3" on the end for the air filter. You will want to change the TB boots and tube, because our TB is only 2" diameter.
I thought Saturn TB were 2.5in diameter? Inlet size can technically be whatever you want depending on the setup, you could use a 5in inlet if you have thing for higher inlet pressure. Or even crazier, F1 intake which acts as a depresserizer, to just be the same setup mentioned above.

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