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Old 08-14-2016, 09:38 PM   #1
YouTubeMechanic
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Dizzy 02 Sl1 Unknown problem flashing service light

Hey guys,
My wife owns a 2002 Saturn Sl1 and knows she has a missfire not sure where though. Been like that for a while but still drives with no issue. 2 days ago she said her car was over heating. Coolant flush was done a few months ago as well as water pump changed. So i knew it wasnt that. I checked her oil level and it was bone dry. She usually takes it to go get a cheap oil change at a shop but i told her not to drive it any more and that i would change her oil.

By no means am i a mechanic, i know some things through personal experiences but not tons (thats the disclaimer). Soo here it goes.

As i was removing what i thought was the oil filter. I noticed transmission fluid coming out. The filter wasnt completely removed and not a whole lot of fluid came out. Then i found the actual oil filter and finished that job. Afterwards the car was running ok again.

Wife drove to work the next day just fine, but when she returned she said there was a loss of power. Said the engine rev'd up but wouldnt go passed 35 mph.

I checked the transmission fluid level with the car warmed up while idling and it was a little below the "ok" section. So i went to autozone, bought valvoline Max full synthetic Auto trans fluid that said was good for cars that require Dex III and began topping off the fluid little by little, switching between all gears before checking again. Just as i was getting almost into the "ok" section of the dipstick, the car started shuddering, almost turning off and the service engine soon light began flashing. I shut the car off, checked levels (still just under ok) turned back on and still same shuddering, light flashing and fluid level. Plus there is now a wierd noise coming from what appears to be the exhaust/muffler area. Like a slightly high pitch noise..

Ive looked all over you tube and google but cant find similar situations reported by other people. So i came here hoping for some directions..

Please Help..

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Old 08-15-2016, 06:43 AM   #2
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Default Re: 02 Sl1 Unknown problem flashing service light

Time to do a compression test, start with cylinder #3.

I don't understand how people think it's an oil filter when it's not spun into the engine and generally is a giant red can that says "SATURN TRANSMISSION FLUID" on it...

...
The proper way to fix a S-Series automatic is to replace it with a 5spd O:)

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Old 08-15-2016, 09:33 AM   #3
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Default Re: 02 Sl1 Unknown problem flashing service light

I made the mistake because it was simply located in the same area where the oil filter is on my 04 Nissan Titan. I too have read that these filters are usually big and red.. However, this trans fluid filter was big and white, and had a small little label that said something about oil filter. No mention of transmission filter.


So after

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Old 08-15-2016, 10:01 AM   #4
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Default Re: 02 Sl1 Unknown problem flashing service light

The check engine light flashing means misfiring occurring with unburned fuel entering the catalytic converter, creating higher operating temperatures that will melt the catcon in as little as 50 miles of driving this way. Running dry of motor oil when oil soaks up engine heat may let the engine overheat to create problems. Misfiring may be due to the ignition system heat soaking when less motor oil allows excess heat to transfer elsewhere. The cooling system and engine oil absorbs most of the heat with exhaust taking the rest away.

The misfire before and after should be diagnosed especially if the check engine light flashes. Spark plugs, ignition control module, ignition coils and wires are all part of the ignition system.

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Old 08-16-2016, 06:52 PM   #5
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Default Re: 02 Sl1 Unknown problem flashing service light

Thanks.. I checked the car again today and the light was still on but not flashing anymore.. Took it to Autozone and the code it put out was p0133 bank 1 sensor 1 o2 sensor.. Guess i will change that and see what happens. The car drove fine to autozone and back. No hesitation or anything.

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Old 08-16-2016, 07:10 PM   #6
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Default Re: 02 Sl1 Unknown problem flashing service light

Oh. And p0300. Random missfire detected. Guess i can change the coil pack and give that a go right? If the wires and plugs are okay?

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Old 08-16-2016, 09:01 PM   #7
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Default Re: 02 Sl1 Unknown problem flashing service light

With the engine cold, pull the spark plugs and check them. They should be a "pancake brown" color, and be free of any buildup. If you replace the plugs, change the wires also. Make sure to use dielectric grease on the wires, on both ends. You won't need much. Use a very small dab of anti-seize compound on the threads to the spark plugs. I would wait on the coils until the plugs and wires are replaced. Coils can go bad, crack, etc. They tend to be a little more expensive than the plugs and wires. If you still have the cylinder misfire code, you may want to check the coils, and I would highly recommend getting the ignition module checked. Excessive heat will fry an ignition module very quickly.

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Old 08-16-2016, 09:18 PM   #8
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Default Re: 02 Sl1 Unknown problem flashing service light

Also, test to recreate the issue with engine cold or at operating temperature. If you coils or ignition module are the culprit, it is possible for them to only act up at higher temperatures. A cracked coil may be fine during the cold start, as the fuel mixture is richer. Spark scatter can occur in any ignition system, most notably on GM HEI distributors that were revved past 4,400 rpm.

Temperature change does affect DC voltage. Hence why a cold snowy day will have your starter turn over a little slower than when it is warm out. Ignition system voltage can change dynamically due to ambient temperatures.

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Old 08-19-2016, 09:48 AM   #9
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Default Re: 02 Sl1 Unknown problem flashing service light

Ok. So spark plugs were changed. Wires still looked good so i didnt change those. I did change one of the two coils though and now the car wont start at all. I put the old one that i replaced back on and the car started up but died shortly after. Thought the new coil (Duralast C1235) might have been bad so i took it back to autozone and swapped it out.

Came back home and installed it with the 4th and 1st spark plug wire connected to it and again the car will not start. I should note that the new coil looks different than the old coil. But Autozone said it was OEM. When they double checked the part number when i was swapping it out for another one, they noticed they had two coils with the same exact part number. but one looked like my old coil and the other didnt. Of course they didnt have the one that looked like mine (square/Cube shapped inst3ad of round).

Any other ideas? Im gonna try to fined a new coil that is square like mine to see if it makes a difference. Also, is the wiring maybe wrong? When looking at the engine im assuming that from left to right its 1 2 3 4. On the coil, the picture on the hood says to wire it 4 1 2 3. Which is how it was originally and how i made sure to put it back..

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Old 08-19-2016, 09:51 AM   #10
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Default Re: 02 Sl1 Unknown problem flashing service light

Oh and like i said before that one day the car had the studder and the next day it didnt. Maybe the temperature difference did have an affect. So where is this "Ignition Module" and what does it look like?.

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Old 08-19-2016, 10:54 AM   #11
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Default Re: 02 Sl1 Unknown problem flashing service light

Mileage on this car? Removed the front precat O2 sensor for a short loud drive to see if power returns? This is the diyers way to check for a blocked catcon. A soup can diverter may be needed to divert hot exhaust gases from burning things nearby.

Did you examine the old spark plugs for anything out of the ordinary? Deposits, black and oily or dry? Damaged electrodes. Ceramic nose color other than tan colored? Incorrect plugs?

The ignition control module is the electronics switching the low/high voltage circuits. It's where the two ignition coils plug into.

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Old 08-19-2016, 01:20 PM   #12
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Default Re: 02 Sl1 Unknown problem flashing service light

mileage 100k
I have not removed the o2 sensor in the exhaust manifold if thats the one your talking about, but i do have a new one to install. Just havent done it yet. Its a universal so i will have to splice it in. Just not sure where to cut the wire, close to the 02 sensor? Or should i disconnect the old 02 sensor completely and splice the wire that leads from the care towards the 02 sensor?

Sparkplugs were a littled toasted, but nothing too bad.

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Old 08-19-2016, 01:56 PM   #13
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Default Re: 02 Sl1 Unknown problem flashing service light

I gotta say... this is going to be expensive and frustrating for you if you continue to just "throw parts at it".

Do you still have the old plugs? If so, post pictures of those. I always suggest taking compression readings as the very first basic test. It is pretty cheap and easy to do, and there is no hope of an inexpensive fix if compression is very poor on any cylinders.

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Old 08-19-2016, 03:57 PM   #14
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Default Re: 02 Sl1 Unknown problem flashing service light

Here are 3 of the 4 spark plugs.. 1 of them i threw out at the parts store. So i should disconnect the o2 sensor in the exhaust manifold to check if the cat con is plugged? If the cat con is in fact plugged or obstructed, could that prevent the car from starting?

Cant post url links for pics until i make 15 posts. So those will need to wait.

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Old 08-19-2016, 03:59 PM   #15
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Default Re: 02 Sl1 Unknown problem flashing service light

Quote:
Originally Posted by YouTubeMechanic View Post
mileage 100k
I have not removed the o2 sensor in the exhaust manifold if thats the one your talking about, but i do have a new one to install. Just havent done it yet. Its a universal so i will have to splice it in. Just not sure where to cut the wire, close to the 02 sensor? Or should i disconnect the old 02 sensor completely and splice the wire that leads from the care towards the 02 sensor?

Sparkplugs were a littled toasted, but nothing too bad.
The suggestion to remove the O2 sensor completely to allow an exhaust hole before the catcon is to see if engine power suddenly returns, indicating a blocked exhaust system. Disconnecting wires does nothing.


A new member is the second owner of an L-series car. He bought it at 45k miles and added another 15k miles until problems appeared. An '02, 14 years old. His catcon fell apart and clogged, blocking the exhaust system. He felt replacing ignition system parts and plugs would fix this problem despite suggestions on testing for a damaged catcon. A trip to his local muffler shop confirmed a damaged catcon. $250 later and all's well.

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Old 08-19-2016, 04:11 PM   #16
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Default Re: 02 Sl1 Unknown problem flashing service light

So can a bad catcon prevent the car from even starting?

I watched a video where someone drilled a small hole after and before the cat con to check the pressure to confirm a clog. Any other way to check it? Or is this an okay way? I dont have any pressure guages.. So I'd have to buy it if need to.

Im beginning to get frustrated with this. At least with the old coil the car still started. With the new one it wont start.. Whats the deal with this. Something aint right about that.

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Old 08-19-2016, 04:28 PM   #17
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Default Re: 02 Sl1 Unknown problem flashing service light

I will definitely check the cat con. But first i need to get the car started.. THANK YOU ALL for helping me out so far.. I appreciate it soo much, i knew a forum would be the best way to go about trying to fix this. I dont like taking our vehicles to shops unless its absolutely necessary to do so.. Im a diyer, and this is how i learn stuff. So again thank you all for the help so far.

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Old 08-19-2016, 04:41 PM   #18
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Default Re: 02 Sl1 Unknown problem flashing service light

One more time; REMOVE the precat O2 sensor completely. Hang it off to the side or disconnect it and throw it in the car for a short drive.

A no start problem is either a fuel or ignition/spark issue. Each can be tested.

For fuel, turn ON ignition (no start) and either listen for the faint hum/hiss sounds of the fuel pump running for two seconds or locate the fuel test valve, mounted on the fuel rail running alongside injectors, remove the black plastic cap and depress the valve stem. Cover this valve with a rag, expecting fuel to spray out. The pump runs for two seconds then shuts down because the engine isn't started or running. Fuel spray means fuel and pressure are available to injectors but does not indicate injector operation. Injector operation requires another step in EFI system operation. You're testing for fuel and pressure at this point. Next is ignition for spark.

A spark test; after noting firing order to spark plug wires, remove them from the ignition coil towers. Have someone start the engine; since plug wires are disconnected, spark should jump across both coil towers to indicate the ignition system is working.

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Old 08-19-2016, 05:01 PM   #19
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Default Re: 02 Sl1 Unknown problem flashing service light

Fuel pump is working and i do hear the hum when turning key to start position. To check spark on the coil towers your saying to have someone start the car to check for the spark jumping between the two towers. But the car wont start.. Does that matter? Or should i still be able to see some sort of spark while the key is being turned?

Sorry, ignition problems is something ive never dealt with on any car.

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Old 08-19-2016, 05:28 PM   #20
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Default Re: 02 Sl1 Unknown problem flashing service light

Ok, you're describing a no-start, dead silence(?) problem where you don't hear the starter/engine cranking? If this is correct, your problems are power related; battery, battery cables, and maybe starter. The sequence to check is as listed in order given.

Batteries older than 5-6 years are usually on their last legs. If unknown, batteries can be tested by most auto stores selling car batteries. A load test determines whether or not a battery has its original CCA's, less (age) or near death. Battery voltage measured at home should be around 12.5 volts. Below 12 volts indicates; fully charged from either a faulty battery or alternator not recharging it. Alternators output between 13v to 14.7v, averaging 14.3v with engine running, accessories off. Alternators can be tested in the car or in-store depending on each store's equipment. Battery cables are examined for powdery deposits, a sign of acid venting or terminal damage leaking battery acid. Acid attacks copper wires and dissolves it. Cleaning powdery residue from dried acid; a warm solution of baking soda and and water with a toothbrush to dissolve and neutralize acid immediately - bubbling is the chemical reaction as baking soda reacts to sulfuric acid whether in liquid or dried powder. A water rinse is all that's needed.

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