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Old 07-03-2016, 11:42 PM   #1
Loktai
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Question 2007 Greenline charging issue

I got ahold of a 2007 greenline at a low price. Great sign, when its cheap right?

The previous owner supposedly replaced the hybrid computer
(the one mounted just behind the radiator in front of the battery toward the drivers side) and it didnt
solve the issue and they lost interest when it was damaged by a truck backing into it.
It was being worked on by a shadetree mechanic and Im not exactly sure where to begin.

Here is what I observed. I put in a charged battery and drove it about 9 miles home.
It was fine most of the way and even displayed the ECO Light at light throttle but the
Charge/assist gauge never moved and by the time I got home I had a battery light on.

Stopping and starting the car again didnt help or get the battery light to go out for more than a few seconds.
It runs like a top when it has a charged battery in it, no issues. But because
I've only ever driven THIS Vue hybrid, I Cant tell you if it felt like it was
doing any regenerative breaking... my daily driver is a subaru BRZ and they
already feel so different its difficult to say much.

SO my questions are :

1. Is the ECO light being lit an indication of anything?
I read the ECO Light only comes on if the hybrid system is working.
Is it possibly just the alternator isnt charging 12v and the hybrid system
is "working" or is that not possible?

2. I saw a tech bulletin from 2007 describing a jumper harness being installed to correct an issue, and I was even
able to find the harness for sale online and in stock locally at a dealer. Does anyone know how I would
check or what this harness looks like to see if that work has already been done to the car? I Cant find a picture of
that harness for the life of me and dont really know where its supposed to be installed between.

(referring to #07195: Customer Satisfaction - Battery Not Charging-Limited Drive Time - (Aug 24, 2007)
Subject: 07195 — Battery Not Charging – Limited Drive Time )

3. Does anyone have any scans or know where I can get the procedure to
replace the alternator? Before the prev. owner lost interest they ordered in
a used alternator and so would replace it if thats what needs to happen...
Im just dreading it with that spring tensioner and the multiple leads coming off the thing.
It seems I Would need to disconnect the hybrid battery just in case to do that, and would welcome any help.

I figured Id ask here before banging my head against the wall and see if someone wiser with Vue GL knowledge might shed some light on this...

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Old 07-04-2016, 11:04 AM   #2
billysvue
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Default Re: 2007 Greenline charging issue

Submitted for recall, yet? CHecked for TSB's?http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=157159

I hope you got it really cheap.

YOu could also try DIY hybrid battery
search for homework info
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...eenline+saturn

...
'05 ,2.2L, FWD,5-speed stick with transaxle death rattle is history,,,
'17 Suby Forester

245216 mi. VUe is off to the dealer auction
I'm a secondhand vegetarian.
Cows eat grass, I eat cows.

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Old 07-04-2016, 11:08 AM   #3
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Default Re: 2007 Greenline charging issue

There's also some great info, below your thread, in the GReenline section.

GOt ALLDATA or a service manual? NO? Start reading^

...
'05 ,2.2L, FWD,5-speed stick with transaxle death rattle is history,,,
'17 Suby Forester

245216 mi. VUe is off to the dealer auction
I'm a secondhand vegetarian.
Cows eat grass, I eat cows.

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Old 07-04-2016, 01:23 PM   #4
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Default Re: 2007 Greenline charging issue

Cheap enough that I could break even selling the new tires
on the wheels and a couple body panels, so Im not worried about it but it would be great if I could get it charging. The car had a recall done for batteries in 2010.

I looked through previous threads but keep in mind many of those were
half a decade+ ago when these cars were still under warranty and Ive seen
them stop charging for every reason from dirty connectors to actual failed
batteries- and every part in between but wanted to know if to anybody the
symptoms sounded like they pointed at a specific thing or if there is anything
I could check that should narrow it down . Ill try to keep the battery charged
and run the car a bit and see if I can pull some codes and come back with
those. I looked for the factory service manual but cant find it for the life of me.

Any idea where Id find a scan, or a PDF of the FSM?

Thanks for any help.

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Old 07-04-2016, 01:33 PM   #5
billysvue
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Default Re: 2007 Greenline charging issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loktai View Post
Any idea where Id find a scan, or a PDF of the FSM?

Thanks for any help.
AllDAta, Mitchell, https://www.google.com/search?q=Mitc...turn+greenline

...
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'17 Suby Forester

245216 mi. VUe is off to the dealer auction
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Old 07-04-2016, 10:41 PM   #6
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Default Re: 2007 Greenline charging issue

I pulled codes u0111, and u1897.

I checked the voltage at the main +/- at the hybrid
battery, and when the car is off its around 12,
Regardless of if the 12v battery in the engine
compartment is connected. When running it
Fluctuates up and down.

On inspection it seems the work was performed
to install the jumper cable from the SGCM unit
in the front, over to the alternator. I have another
Cable near the alternator that seems disused for
some time that fits the same cable connector, and
4 clipped wires which seem to be replaced with
a connector coming from that installed jumper wire...

Here's a question...
The previous mechanic replaced the computer module
in the front of the battery .. the 36/12 volt ac/DC converter.(the water cooled sgcm)

The TSB said there needed to be programming done
when that cable bypass is performed.. does that code
Reside at all on that starter/generator ecm and if so
would a replacement that did not have the code update
cause the unable to communicate symptom the codes
are giving pointing toward the Battery energy module
in the hybrid battery?

Any way to check the starter/generator for functionality
before replacing the battery and BCEM and asking a
dealer to program/calibrate it?

Thanks!

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Old 07-05-2016, 04:18 PM   #7
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2005 VUE 3.5L
2007 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: 2007 Greenline charging issue

I thought I'd responded to your private message by asking for email to send files to ... but I just checked and I didn't send ... blame on cellphone in a den of exploding fireworks.

I've attached a few files specifically related to U0111 and U1897 ... they might not address your specific problem but they're a place to start.

Oh, and they're probably not is right sequence so you'll need to sort that out.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf DTC U0111.pdf (22.9 KB, 28 views)
File Type: pdf PIP4248.pdf (39.8 KB, 10 views)
File Type: pdf PIP4272C.pdf (43.2 KB, 12 views)
File Type: pdf PIP4323A.pdf (40.4 KB, 11 views)
File Type: pdf PIP4373.pdf (39.7 KB, 13 views)

...
I rarely visit forum but respond to private messages (PM). PM creates email to phone & please include email address with question. Avoid using Visitor Message feature ... I almost never check those.

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Old 07-09-2016, 08:44 PM   #8
bern
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Default Re: 2007 Greenline charging issue

1) This vehicle dose not have an alternator , but dose have a Starter Generator. I have never had to replace a failed one yet.

2) Did the shade tree technician program the Starter Generator Control Module? I have only replaced only one of these back in 2007.

3) Many of the belt tensioner fail and damage the belt. Is the SG belt ok?

4) Many of 1st generation Battery energy Control Modules fail. If it fails you'll need to replace the BECM with a new 2nd generation BECM, fan and harness. the BECM will need to be programmed.

5) Also note the hybrid battery is 36 Volts and always live in the battery box. located behind the rear seat.

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Old 07-10-2016, 12:04 AM   #9
Loktai
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Default Re: 2007 Greenline charging issue

Thanks bern.

The mechanic changed the SG module, and assumed that because there
is no voltage coming from the Starter/generator 3 leads when running that
it must be bad. Does the SG module need to be programmed after replacement?

The belt and tensioner are in good shape, no movement in the pulleys...
I dont know when it was replaced but the belt looks good.

Im only pulling 12v from any of the positive leads in the BECM , does
this mean the battery which should be 36 volt is down to like 12 for
whatever reason?

Will the car run and charge with a good but unprogrammed BECM in it?
In otherwords if I got say another battery which usually always
have the BECM on them when bought used or refurbished as far as
Ive seen, will it work or will It appear the same as what Im seeing now?

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Old 07-11-2016, 01:02 AM   #10
bern
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Default Re: 2007 Greenline charging issue

I suspect you'll getting you modules mixed up.
The SGCM is under the hood in front of the 12 volt battery. If the SGCM was replaced it must be programmed.

The BECM is mounted to the back side of the 36 volt battery that is under the floor cover just behind the rear seat.

If the 10mm bolt holding the BECM cover is removed and the cover also removed the contactor inside of the BECM should open and not conduct 36 volts to the out side of the battery or BECM box. Even if the the contactor opens correctly, 36Volts will still be present inside the battery box.

NOTE PIP4248 On rare occasions, DTCs U0111 and U1897 may be experienced shortly after the ECM is reprogrammed. These DTCs may be false DTCs that set as a result of reprogramming the ECM. If this concern is experienced, clear the DTCs and determine if they reset. If the DTCs do not reset, no repairs should be performed because they were false DTCs that set as a result of reprogramming the ECM. If the DTCs reset after they are cleared, there is most likely an issue with the BDU (battery disconnect unit).
You should have the dealer (program the replaced module including clear codes and advise of operation after programming)

You need to confirm what module was replaced, and if programmed correctly and codes cleared and rechecked.

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Old 07-12-2016, 03:42 AM   #11
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Default Re: 2007 Greenline charging issue

I do know which is which but maybe its getting too complicated.

The under the hood SG control module was replaced- I have the old
one to prove it. I dont think he programmed it. He replaced it and had no
12v charging assumed the starter/generators bad but before it was put in
the prev. owner moved on.

So what I have is those two codes, an installed and likely unprogrammed
SG control module (under the hood in front of the 12v battery,
with coolant hoses going into it) , and when its running I Dont get anything more than 12v battery voltage coming out of the 36v line at the SGCM
(I removed the 3 small bolts to open the top and put a multimeter to it) and
its putting 12v(battery voltage) to the 36v line that goes to the hybrid battery. I get only a couple volts each on each of the 3 leads that go to the starter/generator... as if its splitting the voltage sort of the reverse of what
it would do to step it down to 12v DC normally? If that makes any sense.

Going by the latest firmware release for my car according to the GM vehicle
calibration lookup... if I flash the latest code to the car with TIS2WEB...
I should be able to run on 12v and keep going with a failed hybrid batt.

for the SGCM
12633121 00005FAB 2007 GMT315 service package to support 12 volt gen mode

for the "main OS"
12627303 000071CC New software to allow the vehicle to enter a 12 generator mode in the event of a loss of the high voltage battery.

for "system"
12633342 00000512 New calibration to allow the vehicle to enter a 12 generator mode in the event of a loss of the high voltage battery.

Diagnostic
12627305 0000841D New calibration to allow the vehicle to enter a 12 generator mode in the event of a loss of the high voltage battery.

Etc... so it mentions this several times... but my car is not making 12v.

There are no open recalls on the car ... so I think the battery was replaced.
One would think new code was flashed?, so I dont know if only code is
to blame for the no-charge issue after the SGCM replacement or there is
another issue ... or to put it another way did they replace the wrong part
or did they replace the right part and end up with the SAME condition
because they didnt program the SGCM ...

thats why Im scratching my head and dont know if I should try
swapping this starter/generator first or I Should be programming the
car with tis2web.. which will be pricey if I have to do it twice.

The real issue is I am happy to use TIS2WEB and flash the firmware but
I am far enough from a GM dealer that the car wont make it there
without a tow, and if I start towing it around and paying dealer labor...
well lets say its the last resort.

Should I try to update the car through tis2web first?
I would try a tech2 but I was under the impression tis2000
and tech 2 GM North America cards dont support this car and
that global TIS Supports the 2008+... and so basically unless I Found
some unicorn perfect version Im stuck with tis2web.

If you can offer any insight into whats required to program them if you've done it, that would be some help for sure.

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Old 07-12-2016, 11:58 PM   #12
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Default Re: 2007 Greenline charging issue

Their are several thing I thinking of:
1) Do you known if the replacement SGCM was new when installed. If it was new and never programmed it must be programmed for any of it's functions to operate. If it was used bone yard module it may already have the correct program calibrations.
2) Internally to the SGCM is the PIM (power invertor Module). The PIM change AC voltage to DC voltage and DC voltage to AC voltage. The starter generator input output (three large cables carry AC voltage only) is AC voltage. But the starter generator also has DC voltage control circuits.
3) The PIM takes Ac power from the Starter Generator and changes it to DC power about 40 Volts to charge the Hybrid battery and also about 14.5 to change the 12 volt battery.
4) All programming is done with TIS2web and passthou device like tech2 , MDI or MDI2. I don't anyone is using the tech2 anymore because the MDI is easier and faster. Note TIS2web is a website on a PC. The program calibrations can not be installed without access to TIS2 web.

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Old 07-13-2016, 02:31 AM   #13
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Default Re: 2007 Greenline charging issue

Bern I really appreciate your insight on this, thank you.

I asked the previous owner when I started looking into the possibly programming being the cause, they said the module was"new"...and was installed and probably not programmed as far as they knew but couldn't say
for certain. They said it cost them a pretty penny.
Like 1100 to get and install it.

I put a multimeter to the three 12v AC leads while the car was running and it wasn't sending voltage. ..does the
Starter/generator require a signal from the sgcm to begin
sending voltage through the 3 leads? It would produce
No volts if not controlled by a programmed, good sgcm?

So.... My understanding is. The generator provides AC at
3x "12v"(probably more like 13+ from what you're saying)
Across those wires, a component in the sgcm converts
To DC at full voltage to charge the hybrid batt, and "12v"
(14) to charge 12v starting battery and run accessories..
And converts 36v DC back to AC for hybrid mode
Power assist and starting from auto stop .


There could be more going on but based
on this ...

Even if the BECM was dead or not present
Shouldn't the car be charging the 12v system?
Can I safely say that If the sgcm and generator
are good, and programmed I should make 12v?

I have another (used but not yet installed)
starter /generator. If I buy the 3 day sub To
Tis2web and program it through a j2534 cable
and it doesn't solve the issue, replacing the
Starter/generator should get me 12v?
No further programming should be required
after replacing the starter generator since
it doesn't have any firmware onboard?
(At least not from what I could find)
Obviously I'm not holding you to anything
just asking for a speculative opinion .
At this point my main goal is 12v charging...

The car has the"jumper harness " mentioned in a
2007ish tech builitin installed that runs between the
Sgcm lower connector and the starter generator
that replaced the factory starter generator harness.
And I confirmed continuity of all the pins
that go between the two in that harness as well as checked that they are in good shape.

I'll prepare to try programming in the meantime,
and get around to that in the next couple weeks.

I'm considering swapping the starter generator
beforehand but they seem to have a reputation
of not failing and the belt and tensioners
are in good shape and I was hoping to avoid
messing with that.

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Old 07-13-2016, 11:09 PM   #14
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Default Re: 2007 Greenline charging issue

Based on the repairs I have done 07 Vue Green line, my gut is saying the wrong was incompletely replaced ( wasn't prorgammed).

Diagnoses is currently incomplete ( you need to pull codes from all modules , what are the failed current codes)

The BECM is likely the current failure, a new one will need to be programmed. new BECM will need new fan and a harness (not the harness for the SGCM) It seems to me the I've replaced other BECM because the customer could not drive it. Possiblely not starting

I don't recommend reprogramming yourself if you are not already setup to program GM vehicles. Is there a GM dealer near you?

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Old 07-14-2016, 01:06 AM   #15
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Default Re: 2007 Greenline charging issue

The closest GM dealers are prohibitively far...

The car starts and runs, but makes no voltage.
Everything else, even AC is working fine.
The codes I get are the same two I mentioned
Earlier in the thread, u0111 and u1897. They
come back after clearing them. I am pulling
Those with a generic OBD2 scanner. Would
a tech 2/tech2win pull any more useful info
or tell me for sure if the BECM is bad?

I've programmed other ecus before and have a
pass through device that would work with tis2web
and tech2win but don't have a subscription. .. I'm
willing to try that if you think it will give me more info.

Would programming the SGCM get 12v charging you think? That would make distance to a dealer less
of an issue. Is there a way to check if it's programmed
before going that route by using tech2win?

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Old 07-14-2016, 06:44 PM   #16
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Default Re: 2007 Greenline charging issue

I've confirmed the battery energy control module is the old Gen 1 type with the yellow hue.

Is the different harness required to update to
the Gen 2 BECM?

thanks

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Old 07-14-2016, 11:37 PM   #17
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Default Re: 2007 Greenline charging issue

Tech2 or Tech2win is the best scan tool for the 07 Vue. With the tech2 you will be able to communicate with all modules ( that are not dead) for DTCs and data. this information may help in not replacing good parts.

The 2nd gen BECM has a shorter attached harness.The needed harness is only an extension for the 2nd gen BECM for the 07 Vue appliecation. The fan has a different wire connector. Other appliecations like the Aura, 08-09 Vue , 08-09Chevrolet Malibu. I think all 2nd gen BECM and fan have the same part numbers.

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Old 07-14-2016, 11:57 PM   #18
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Default Re: 2007 Greenline charging issue

DTC U0111 Lost Communication With Battery Energy Control Module (ECM?)
DTC U1897 Starter/Generator Control Module Lost Communication With Battery Energy Control Module

I think I have been a little too focused on the already replaced SGCM and the TSB that states u0111 and u1897 may be false DTCs.
But these DTCs point right at a bad BECM. as long as the BECM has power and ground inside connector I would replace the BECM program it and check the program in the SGCM at the same time.

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Old 07-15-2016, 12:20 AM   #19
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Default Re: 2007 Greenline charging issue

That sounds prudent. .. I'll source a 2nd Gen BECM
And install and program that and check the
programming on the SGCM etc at that time,
And I'll come back and post if tech2win shows
anything unexpected or questionable.

Seeing as I know the BECM I have is known
as a point of failure I think I'll replace it regardless.

The replacement BECMs I have seen have been ending
325 and 326.. they seem to be identical?

Do the BECM normally come with their Harness?
Not the extension one but the harness that comes
out of the box to meet the BECM extension harness?

I'll pull the battery and try to get all three of the
cells checked for leakage and maybe try
Charging them each indevidually ahead of
installation to make sure they hold stable voltage.

I have some documentation on safe handling and
removal of the cells so I should be OK.

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Old 07-15-2016, 04:38 PM   #20
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Default Re: 2007 Greenline charging issue

I now have a new BECM, and by luck also a used battery pack which also
has the new style BECM but in unknown condition...
I just need to get ahold of the extension harness.

I was told the new BECM is "pre programmed" and there is a
bulletin that says not to program it unless there is an issue...
that it can make the new BECM useless in some cases....
Is there any danger in trying to run the car without programming
the module first?


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