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Old 07-09-2003, 09:03 AM   #1
dennis marshall
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Devil We Can Save Saturn!!!!

I think that it is about time that we Saturn owners tell GM that growing the brand does not mean destroying it! It seems to me that since the death of Oldsmobile GM is hell bent to destroy Saturns unique features.I just read in the forum that future IONS & VUES may not have polymer panels! What the ...
bleep is going on ? Why is GM even thinking of doing this?.Register at the Saturn web site and send them a nice message.Let them know that as a satisfied Saturn owner you are keeping any eye on future developments.Let them know that you will not appreciate it if they grow Saturn by turning it into a subdivision of Chevy.Yes you will get a nice thank you in return.Yet maybe if enough messages get to Saturn someone at GM will listen. We can save Saturn!!!!

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Old 07-09-2003, 09:08 AM   #2
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It's my understanding that the new GM Mini-Van (Called a "Crossover Sport Utility Vehicle - CSV") platform will be used by Saturn, Chevy, Buick, etc.... will be built in Georgia and not have polymer side panels.

To my knowledge, all the other Saturn cars will still have the polymer body panels, and the new Mini-Van is the only exception.

The mini-van will also not have the same kind of unitbody construction that is typical of Saturns... and I would agree with you that it would be a mistake.

If the cars are all the same, then what's the incentive for buying a Saturn Brand over a Buick? It's not the greatest news, but it's not the end of the world.

I believe that IONS, VUES, and the L300 will remain as we know them today

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Old 07-09-2003, 09:56 AM   #3
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As I mentioned before, my Saturn salesdude told me that they have been threatening to discontinue Polymer panels for a good 5 years now, and they still haven't. He doesn't see it as a threat.

The mini-van won't use polymer because of rigidity issues.

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Old 07-09-2003, 10:06 AM   #4
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Maybe we should form a petition here saying Saturn shouldn't drop the extensive use of Polymer panels in its products. Still, I guess a lot of non-Saturnfans Saturn owners out there still have no clues what GM is cooking up. By the time they realized the changes(polymer dropped), damage is already done.

Dent-Resistant has always been one of the Saturn's strengths. It'll be a mistake by not utilizing Polymers on future Saturn cars.

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Old 07-09-2003, 04:25 PM   #5
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I have on several occasions posted to the mysaturn website with my thoughts & opinions. Each time it was met with the same corporate response of "thank you for your interest in Saturn, blah,blah, yada, yada....
I am still not discouraged, though. Someone will get a hair up their butt if a majority of us would do the same. Perhaps, weekly we could take collection of posts that were relevant for that week, and send it to them. Maybe several of us could do that on a weekly basis. Pick one subject that we discussed here during the week, and drop them a line or two. I have always wondered if they, (Saturn & their GM corporate types), ever peruse (i hate that term) this website. If they did, they wouldn't have to worry about slow L-series sales & negative IOn first impressions. The opinions & facts here are a real goldmine for anybody working in marketing at Saturn.
I dunno, just some rambling by me, but it's worth a try.
Feel free to tell me I'm full of it, (won't be the first time ), or it's good idea. (now that's a first)
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Old 07-09-2003, 05:33 PM   #6
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This is an interesting discussions that periodically recurs here but lets look at some facts:
The ION and the VUE are both relatively new models built at a plant set up for polymer production. Neither model will be discontinued soon and I doubt that GM would abandon or radically alter one of its newer plants.
There is no current Saturn minivan and there will probably never be a Saturn only minivan because it would not be cost effective to design and build one. If Saturn owners want a minivan they will have to accept a cross over vehicle badged a Saturn or have no minivan at all, as is now the case. I have been hearing from sales consultants since 1994 that customers come into the Saturn stores and ask for a minivan. Do I want one? Heck no; but if enough people want one, why shouldn't Saturn sell one? Let the market decide.
Finally when anyone laments the thoretical end of polymer, it is usually assumed that there will be a regression to a traditional steel body. Why is this assumed? I suspect tradition and an inability to think forward are the reason. I too would join a fight to keep polymer cladding on most Saturns if the choice was to go back to something worse. If however you read some articles on the future of auto cladding it is probably just as likely that auto skins will be made of other materials or at least be covered with coatings made of innovative materials than it will be that they will always be painted steel as we know it.
My conclusion is that I am simply not going to worry about it until I actually know a backwards step will be taken by Saturn. Let's watch for some announcements on the possible mid-sized replacement for the L-series. If it happens, that is where I would expect to see it, long before the ION or VUE.

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Old 07-09-2003, 05:56 PM   #7
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It's too late - the essence of Saturn is already dead. Rebadged GM vehicles built in the typical GM culture is all that the future holds now.

Last edited by VTHokie00SL2; 07-09-2003 at 06:02 PM..

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Old 07-09-2003, 06:13 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by VTHOKIE97SL2
It's too late - the essence of Saturn is already dead. Rebadged GM vehicles built in the typical GM culture is all that the future holds now.

For a person with 3236 posts, you have to wonder how many of them are like the one above? I know I've seen at least 500 like that from you.

Anyone who reads this board knows your feelings about Saturn. I just find it amazing that you would still spend any time or effort pushing the same point over and over on a car and products you no longer care for.

So you don't like GM and think Saturns are all re-badged GM's. So what? Your point was made a long time ago.

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Old 07-09-2003, 06:17 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by VTHOKIE97SL2
It's too late - the essence of Saturn is already dead. Rebadged GM vehicles built in the typical GM culture is all that the future holds now.
Chicken Little Voice: The Sky is Falling!!! The Sky is Falling!!

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Old 07-09-2003, 06:23 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jaseball
For a person with 3236 posts, you have to wonder how many of them are like the one above? I know I've seen at least 500 like that from you.
Just as I've seen many repetitive "I love Saturn, Saturn is great" posts from others here. I'm just trying to maintain a little balance, as a number of other members here have either lost interest or been silenced for expressing their opinion.

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Old 07-09-2003, 06:28 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark@Saturn
Chicken Little Voice: The Sky is Falling!!! The Sky is Falling!!
As far as I'm concerned, it's already fallen. Saturn offers nothing that stands out as a leader in its class, and I wouldn't even consider Saturn if I were buying a new car today.

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Old 07-09-2003, 06:58 PM   #12
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A Saturn without polymer just isn't a Saturn. IMMHO. (In my most humble opinion)

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Old 07-09-2003, 07:56 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by GreyDuck
A Saturn without polymer just isn't a Saturn. IMMHO. (In my most humble opinion)
I agree. This should be a defining point for all cars bearing the Saturn brand, panel gaps be damned. It's sad seeing how many cars at work, less than a year old that are banged up with dents.

My '03 Ion has been tagged 2x already with scratches on the drivers/rear QP that would have left two nice dents for sure on sheet metal.

If the Ion did not have polymer I would not have bought it.

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Old 07-09-2003, 08:43 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by VTHOKIE97SL2
As far as I'm concerned, it's already fallen. Saturn offers nothing that stands out as a leader in its class, and I wouldn't even consider Saturn if I were buying a new car today.
I do agree that Saturn vehicles are not class leaders, and there are definitly things that could be better(like steering racks ). But, were I in the market again for a new car, I would consider them because I like the sales and service I get from the dealership. I greatly dislike high pressure dealerships. My personal favorite right now is the VUE, I just can't afford one.

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Old 07-09-2003, 10:06 PM   #15
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Quote:
The mini-van won't use polymer because of rigidity issues.
Puh-leeze. That sounds like the same nonsense they put out about the "reason" they used steel quarters in the L (rigidity/noise, vibration, save trunk space), when in fact the reason - then and now with the minivan, is because they're using another make's product, not building a Saturn. GM has already built spaceframe/polymer minivans (see the 1st gen "dustbuster" Chevy Venture/Pontiac Trans Sport/Olds Silloutte) - so much for the "ridgidity issues" LOL!

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Old 07-09-2003, 10:06 PM   #16
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Idea Let's talk marketing

I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that many people who participate in this forum could market Saturns much better than Saturn's own marketing department.

Who agrees with me?

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Old 07-09-2003, 10:21 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by VTHOKIE97SL2
I'm just trying to maintain a little balance, as a number of other members here have either lost interest or been silenced for expressing their opinion.
I have to take exception to this statement. Opinions are opinions -- everyone has them, and everyone is free to post them at SaturnFans as long as they abide by the rules of the board. Some members have been suspended for being rude or bashing Saturn or other members, but no one has ever been "silenced" for expressing their opinion.

Hope that clears things up,
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Old 07-10-2003, 02:07 AM   #18
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Question Is Saturn dead?

Parts of Saturn have been slowly dying for sometime now.

If you take a look at the core values that Saturn started with many many years ago, you'll find nothing about polymer panels.

GM has no choice. Its all about money, and Saturn doesn't make any. To design and engineer unique Saturn vehicles would only be a way to lose even MORE money.

The good news is that GM is building better vehicles than ever, and Saturn dealers score higher than any for customer satisfaction. Saturn would have been axed instead of Oldsmobile were it not for one fact: Saturn is the GM brand where many of the buyers would have bought an import if Saturn were not available.

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Old 07-10-2003, 03:39 AM   #19
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You're right, I apologize. I don't even know why I wrote that. I do feel constrained now, though, as I don't know what constitutes a legitimate opinion and what constitutes bashing. I wish people weren't so darn sensitive about what others think of their car! If people start bashing other people, of course that's a problem, but if someone's bashing the ION, so what? If I say I don't like the current Saturn styling, I assume that's fine. Can I say more specifically that I find the cutesy smiley face treatment and "friendly" theme to be a little too estrogen influenced for my taste, or does that cross the line? What happened to the people who designed the sleek, aggressive, sporty looking Saturns? Do they all work at Pontiac now?

Anyway, I'm tired...I'm going to sleep!

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Old 07-10-2003, 08:30 AM   #20
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it's too late. once GM assimilated Saturn into the fold, it's only a matter of time. remember Geo?

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