SaturnFans.com
what's new (beta) - classifieds - forums - photos


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn Vue > Vue Tech
Register FAQ Members List Groups Calendar Chat Room Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-17-2016, 09:44 PM   #21
freedomsr40
Junior Member
freedomsr40 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 12
Default Re: 2003 Saturn Vue Stalling out

Quote:
Originally Posted by far2grumpy View Post
I'm thinking you're making a little too complicated ... easiest way to determine if if throttle body valve follows gas pedal is to turn key on - have one person monitor throttle body while another person mashes gas pedal.

Its common for throttle body butterfly valve to move when ignition is turned on - the blade will move from parked position to previously learned idle setting.

haha im sorry, heres what i did. i turned the key on (not the motor) took the breather off so i could see the butterfly, i put a brick on the gas pedal with the key turned on (so i would know it was a constant pedal push) i looked at the butterfly and it was moving all over, opening maybe 30-40%, then would close, then open , then close, it didnt seem normal to me at all ,your thoughts?

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to freedomsr40's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help freedomsr40 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
freedomsr40 is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 04-18-2016, 08:52 AM   #22
far2grumpy
Master Member
far2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to behold
 
far2grumpy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Posts: 7,924
 

2005 VUE 3.5L
2007 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: 2003 Saturn Vue Stalling out

Quote:
Originally Posted by freedomsr40 View Post
haha im sorry, heres what i did. i turned the key on (not the motor) took the breather off so i could see the butterfly, i put a brick on the gas pedal with the key turned on (so i would know it was a constant pedal push) i looked at the butterfly and it was moving all over, opening maybe 30-40%, then would close, then open , then close, it didnt seem normal to me at all ,your thoughts?
A well placed brick should do the trick - blade should stay at same angle (unless brick is moving).

I mentioned in earlier post that I'd wiggle wiring harnesses to see if symptoms changed - starting with connector C200 behind kick panel next to drivers left foot. Another known spot for corroded contacts is throttle body connector.

Its going to be tough for one person to wiggle wires while monitoring throttle blade but you did mention being able to hear blade move about when ignition is turned ON.

With key ON ... can you use VM to check for constant 12v at ETC fuse? This would verify the ECM has control of ENG MAIN Relay which eliminates another known problem.

...
I rarely visit forum but respond to private messages (PM). PM creates email to phone & please include email address with question. Avoid using Visitor Message feature ... I almost never check those.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to far2grumpy's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help far2grumpy reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
far2grumpy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2016, 01:18 PM   #23
freedomsr40
Junior Member
freedomsr40 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 12
Default Re: 2003 Saturn Vue Stalling out

Quote:
Originally Posted by far2grumpy View Post
A well placed brick should do the trick - blade should stay at same angle (unless brick is moving).

I mentioned in earlier post that I'd wiggle wiring harnesses to see if symptoms changed - starting with connector C200 behind kick panel next to drivers left foot. Another known spot for corroded contacts is throttle body connector.

Its going to be tough for one person to wiggle wires while monitoring throttle blade but you did mention being able to hear blade move about when ignition is turned ON.

With key ON ... can you use VM to check for constant 12v at ETC fuse? This would verify the ECM has control of ENG MAIN Relay which eliminates another known problem.

ill check outthe 12v at that relay. i made a video of what it does. ill upload them later tonight and post links here. thanks again!

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to freedomsr40's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help freedomsr40 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
freedomsr40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2016, 10:21 AM   #24
far2grumpy
Master Member
far2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to behold
 
far2grumpy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Posts: 7,924
 

2005 VUE 3.5L
2007 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: 2003 Saturn Vue Stalling out

Basics of Throttle Actuator Control (TAC) system:

a. Gas pedal has position sensors (APP) to measure pedal angle.

b. Wiring connects APP to ECM

c. ECM uses APP signal to control Throttle Body Assembly (TBA) blade angle

d. Wiring connects ECM to TBA

e. TBA has a motor to change blade angle - also has two position sensors to confirm throttle setting back to ECM.

I watched videos and don't recall you capturing TBA movement when engine was surging - I expect it was moving but don't know how much.

The clacking noise sounds like "ice break" mode - the ECM commands TBA blade to firmly move closed several times if/when it determines the blade has not moved after ignition is turned on (as if frozen).

Lack of movement could be caused by binding blade or there's intermittent wiring issue on sensor wiring from TBA back to ECM (keep in mind motor circuits are probably OK since ECM is controlling blade).

I've attached a 3.0 TAC interconnect diagram in case you want to do a wiring continuity test.

One other thought - cruise control uses ECM to maintain speed by replacing the APP sensor input. If Vue operates normally using cruise it could indicate the erratic throttle condition is caused by APP sensors or wiring to ECM.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg screen_2016-04-18 22.29.57.jpg (102.1 KB, 4 views)

...
I rarely visit forum but respond to private messages (PM). PM creates email to phone & please include email address with question. Avoid using Visitor Message feature ... I almost never check those.

Last edited by far2grumpy; 04-19-2016 at 10:30 AM..

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to far2grumpy's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help far2grumpy reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
far2grumpy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2016, 02:53 PM   #25
Greggzky
New Member
Greggzky is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Auburn WA
Posts: 6

2003 VUE 3.0L
Default Re: 2003 Saturn Vue v6 Stalling out

I'm going to just add some 'fuel to the fire' so to speak, because I'm trying to troubleshoot my sister's 2003 Vue with similar stalling. Perhaps what I'm seeing and what I've tried will help you, and help me. The stalling used to only happen when she was going up a slight incline (a little more gas on the pedal), but has slowly gotten worse over the last two years. It is often harder to restart when on that incline, but typically restarts immediately. No codes, ever. When it dies, the SES and CEL both immediately come on, before the RPMs drop to nothing. If it dies completely (and now that can happen under any conditions, including just sitting idling), the Security and other lights all come on, as if you just turned on the key, but they all clear once you start it again. I have replaced: Fuel Filter, Crank Position Sensor (no change); gas pedal (Throttle position sensor); ignition switch; battery cables. I've cleaned all grounds; checked all multi-pin connectors (ECM, 40-pin by driver's side kick panel) -- all clean. I installed a switch on the fuel pump fuse so I could imitate a fuel-system failure -- and it dies, but more slowly and without all the lights coming on immediately but instead not until the RPMs drop to totally stopped. My Sis said it initially wouldn't die if she ran the air conditioning, so I suspected perhaps that either the gas pedal or BCM was being kept cool so wasn't failing as soon. But A/C doesn't help anymore. I'm thinking now that the ECM is bad, but don't want to go that route without more info. Does this help you? Far2Grumpy, any new ideas from this additional info? Anybody else?

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Greggzky's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Greggzky reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Greggzky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2016, 05:31 PM   #26
far2grumpy
Master Member
far2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to behold
 
far2grumpy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Posts: 7,924
 

2005 VUE 3.5L
2007 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: 2003 Saturn Vue v6 Stalling out

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greggzky View Post
I'm going to just add some 'fuel to the fire' so to speak, because I'm trying to troubleshoot my sister's 2003 Vue with similar stalling. Perhaps what I'm seeing and what I've tried will help you, and help me. The stalling used to only happen when she was going up a slight incline (a little more gas on the pedal), but has slowly gotten worse over the last two years. It is often harder to restart when on that incline, but typically restarts immediately. No codes, ever. When it dies, the SES and CEL both immediately come on, before the RPMs drop to nothing. If it dies completely (and now that can happen under any conditions, including just sitting idling), the Security and other lights all come on, as if you just turned on the key, but they all clear once you start it again. I have replaced: Fuel Filter, Crank Position Sensor (no change); gas pedal (Throttle position sensor); ignition switch; battery cables. I've cleaned all grounds; checked all multi-pin connectors (ECM, 40-pin by driver's side kick panel) -- all clean. I installed a switch on the fuel pump fuse so I could imitate a fuel-system failure -- and it dies, but more slowly and without all the lights coming on immediately but instead not until the RPMs drop to totally stopped. My Sis said it initially wouldn't die if she ran the air conditioning, so I suspected perhaps that either the gas pedal or BCM was being kept cool so wasn't failing as soon. But A/C doesn't help anymore. I'm thinking now that the ECM is bad, but don't want to go that route without more info. Does this help you? Far2Grumpy, any new ideas from this additional info? Anybody else?
I've ran into loose contacts with the IP fuse block ... lots of connectors on back side and one or two have ignition related wires.

I'd let engine idle and then remove IP door (next to front passengers left foot) and push and tug on the circuit board and any wiring I could reach on back-side.

Repost if engine dies and I can send diagrams for those connectors.

...
I rarely visit forum but respond to private messages (PM). PM creates email to phone & please include email address with question. Avoid using Visitor Message feature ... I almost never check those.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to far2grumpy's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help far2grumpy reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
far2grumpy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2016, 05:01 PM   #27
freedomsr40
Junior Member
freedomsr40 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 12
Default Re: 2003 Saturn Vue v6 Stalling out

so here is my update,

today we replaced the throttle body, and we THOUGHT we had the right crank sensor but it was the 2.2L one so it didnt work, but we already had the old one out before we realized it, so we cleaned it up and put it back in. after we did those two things we had it running for an hour (idling) and so right around the hour mark i went out and put it in park, as soon as i did it stalled. i restarted it (it still started right back up) and put it in reverse, it stalled again. this is a big difference because usually it stalled after 10-20 minutes.

my uncle said he read online that some of those " all in one" throttle bodies (the ones with all the sensors and IAC built in) you have to "re calibrate" them somehow but turning the key on, flooring the pedal a couple of times or something. so i was wondering if anyone knew anything about that? its a used throttle body if that makes any difference.

as far as the post about stalling on an incline, im not sure, im on flat ground and it still stalls, so , just figured id mention it. cant wait to hear what you guys think. thank you all!

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to freedomsr40's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help freedomsr40 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
freedomsr40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2016, 10:11 PM   #28
far2grumpy
Master Member
far2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to behold
 
far2grumpy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Posts: 7,924
 

2005 VUE 3.5L
2007 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: 2003 Saturn Vue Stalling out

Did you really mean to say the Vue idled OK for about an hour and when you moved to PARK the engine died - this implies trans was in NEUTRAL for original start.

Will the engine rev normally when you mash gas pedal?

A new throttle body does require a brief "idle-learn" which you do by moving key to ON and let it stay there for about one minute - then OFF and then back ON and start.

The next sequence is to do some slow speed driving while adding electrical loads (lights-HVAC blower-etc) and cycle AC so ECM and throttle body can "learn" how to handle various loads.

...
I rarely visit forum but respond to private messages (PM). PM creates email to phone & please include email address with question. Avoid using Visitor Message feature ... I almost never check those.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to far2grumpy's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help far2grumpy reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
far2grumpy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2016, 04:23 PM   #29
Greggzky
New Member
Greggzky is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Auburn WA
Posts: 6

2003 VUE 3.0L
Default Re: 2003 Saturn Vue Stalling out

This is Greggzky again, from a couple posts up -- Far2Grumpy, you suggested I mess with the 40-pin behind the driver's side left kick panel while running the engine to see if it died. Nope. Rock solid. And again, when it does, all the lights come on before it even drops any rpms. No codes set. The warning lights just come on and it loses all power. Once in a while, the lights will go back out and it resumes running normally before the engine totally stops. But for the time the lights are on, the rpms just keep dropping until the engine is totally dead.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Greggzky's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Greggzky reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Greggzky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2016, 05:02 PM   #30
far2grumpy
Master Member
far2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to behold
 
far2grumpy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Posts: 7,924
 

2005 VUE 3.5L
2007 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: 2003 Saturn Vue Stalling out

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greggzky View Post
This is Greggzky again, from a couple posts up -- Far2Grumpy, you suggested I mess with the 40-pin behind the driver's side left kick panel while running the engine to see if it died. Nope. Rock solid. And again, when it does, all the lights come on before it even drops any rpms. No codes set. The warning lights just come on and it loses all power. Once in a while, the lights will go back out and it resumes running normally before the engine totally stops. But for the time the lights are on, the rpms just keep dropping until the engine is totally dead.
Actually, in post 26 I suggested you wiggle wiring going to fuse box in instrument panel. Prime ignition power goes from key cylinder ignition module to IP fuse block and then scoots back out to underhood fuse and relay box.

Its also possible you have a power problem ... can you use a voltmeter to check battery output with ignition OFF then recheck and monitor with engine running?

IPC lights coming on before engine dies is probably a good clue and I'll spend some time looking at diagrams. One thing coming to mind is BCM monitors alternator output and will shut down most circuits (ABS, EPS, IPC) if power drops too low (<9 volts) or too high (>18 volts).

It could be that your alternator has erratic output - recognized by BCM which goes to protect mode - however, BCM is supposed to keep engine run circuits operating so you can get clear of traffic but it sounds like your ECM/PCM is being affected also.

BTW - many power problems will cause codes to be stored but the MIL (malfunction indicator light) might not be turned ON.

So, I'd wiggle those IP wires, and ones around underhood fuse box, check/monitor battery and alternator voltages and connect code reader to see if any codes are stored.

...
I rarely visit forum but respond to private messages (PM). PM creates email to phone & please include email address with question. Avoid using Visitor Message feature ... I almost never check those.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to far2grumpy's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help far2grumpy reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
far2grumpy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2016, 09:59 PM   #31
freedomsr40
Junior Member
freedomsr40 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 12
Default Re: 2003 Saturn Vue Stalling out

SOLVED! it was the ECM guys, replaced it and now the car is running , thanks for all your help everyone!

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to freedomsr40's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help freedomsr40 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
freedomsr40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2016, 11:22 PM   #32
Greggzky
New Member
Greggzky is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Auburn WA
Posts: 6

2003 VUE 3.0L
Default Re: 2003 Saturn Vue Stalling out

Glad to hear the ECM replacement worked for Freedomsr40. Far2Grumpy, I apologize for: A) misreading your post 26 that you were talking about the driver's side panel when you had clearly said the passenger-side. B) taking so long to get back to this thread with my results. I don't have regular access to the car, so this troubleshooting is getting very stretched out. In your post just above, you recommended that I do several things: 1) mess with the wiring in that passenger-side compartment to see if I could get the car to die/misbehave; 2) check the battery power/alternator power levels to see if they were within specs. Regarding #1, I can't get the car to die or misbehave pulling on any wires -- in that compartment, in the driver's left-foot-side compartment, above the pedals, or anywhere in the engine compartment. But just sitting there idling for 10 minutes, it will suddenly die; and after it warms up for 10 minutes or so driving it from a cold start, it will die pretty regularly, especially if I vary the gas pedal position a lot, like fluttering the gas pedal. Regarding #2, the battery gives me 12.3 volts with the car off. I get 13.4 volts at idle, 13.8 at 4000RPM. The car only has 82K on it, so the alternator should still have some life left too.
No codes ever seem to get stored -- at least not any that the AutoZone parts-store readers can see. I don't have a reader of my own. Some other potential smoking guns: 1) Early on, the sudden stall, with the lights all coming on right away, long before the RPMs had fallen to nothing, and sometimes dying all the way, sometimes coming back to life and going on as if nothing had ever happened, wouldn't happen if the air-conditioning was on. Could it be possible that the BCM is the culprit? That the BCM circuit board has a bad solder connection or two and the AC was keeping it from heating up and malfunctioning? 2) Once it starts misbehaving, I can drive it 10-15 miles with no failures if I move the gas pedal very slowly, and keep it to minimum throttle (e.g., start it in 1st, move to 2nd, then finally to D, accelerating very slowly). If I give it a lot of gas, or flutter the gas pedal, it will misbehave almost immediately. That's why I replaced the gas pedal early on. But that didn't help at all. Again, I've gone through every ground I can find, all the connections (no corroded wires/pins), I've replaced the battery cables, Crank Position Sensor, and gas pedal. I'm thinking I need to get a new ECM like freedomsr40, but don't want to put that very expensive part in and still have the same problem. Any further guidance, Far2Grumpy, or others?

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Greggzky's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Greggzky reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Greggzky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2016, 11:30 PM   #33
Chazberry
Master Member
Chazberry is a splendid one to beholdChazberry is a splendid one to beholdChazberry is a splendid one to beholdChazberry is a splendid one to beholdChazberry is a splendid one to beholdChazberry is a splendid one to beholdChazberry is a splendid one to behold
 
Chazberry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,879

2003 VUE 3.0L
2007 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: 2003 Saturn Vue Stalling out

Quote:
Originally Posted by freedomsr40 View Post
SOLVED! it was the ECM guys, replaced it and now the car is running
Congrats on finding the fix! Mind revealing your ECM source/cost? Did it need programming?

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Chazberry's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Chazberry reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Chazberry is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2016, 09:06 AM   #34
far2grumpy
Master Member
far2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to behold
 
far2grumpy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Posts: 7,924
 

2005 VUE 3.5L
2007 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: 2003 Saturn Vue Stalling out

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greggzky View Post
Glad to hear the ECM replacement worked for Freedomsr40. Far2Grumpy, I apologize for: A) misreading your post 26 that you were talking about the driver's side panel when you had clearly said the passenger-side. B) taking so long to get back to this thread with my results. I don't have regular access to the car, so this troubleshooting is getting very stretched out. In your post just above, you recommended that I do several things: 1) mess with the wiring in that passenger-side compartment to see if I could get the car to die/misbehave; 2) check the battery power/alternator power levels to see if they were within specs. Regarding #1, I can't get the car to die or misbehave pulling on any wires -- in that compartment, in the driver's left-foot-side compartment, above the pedals, or anywhere in the engine compartment. But just sitting there idling for 10 minutes, it will suddenly die; and after it warms up for 10 minutes or so driving it from a cold start, it will die pretty regularly, especially if I vary the gas pedal position a lot, like fluttering the gas pedal. Regarding #2, the battery gives me 12.3 volts with the car off. I get 13.4 volts at idle, 13.8 at 4000RPM. The car only has 82K on it, so the alternator should still have some life left too.
No codes ever seem to get stored -- at least not any that the AutoZone parts-store readers can see. I don't have a reader of my own. Some other potential smoking guns: 1) Early on, the sudden stall, with the lights all coming on right away, long before the RPMs had fallen to nothing, and sometimes dying all the way, sometimes coming back to life and going on as if nothing had ever happened, wouldn't happen if the air-conditioning was on. Could it be possible that the BCM is the culprit? That the BCM circuit board has a bad solder connection or two and the AC was keeping it from heating up and malfunctioning? 2) Once it starts misbehaving, I can drive it 10-15 miles with no failures if I move the gas pedal very slowly, and keep it to minimum throttle (e.g., start it in 1st, move to 2nd, then finally to D, accelerating very slowly). If I give it a lot of gas, or flutter the gas pedal, it will misbehave almost immediately. That's why I replaced the gas pedal early on. But that didn't help at all. Again, I've gone through every ground I can find, all the connections (no corroded wires/pins), I've replaced the battery cables, Crank Position Sensor, and gas pedal. I'm thinking I need to get a new ECM like freedomsr40, but don't want to put that very expensive part in and still have the same problem. Any further guidance, Far2Grumpy, or others?
Items remaining are throttle body, ECM and wiring.

I've attached two diagrams - one for complete throttle control system and the other is for throttle body (TB) connector with ohms values for the internal resistance networks. I don't recall where I got the numbers but am 95% certain they were taken from a good 3.0 TB.

The key to watch for if you do connect ohmmeter to the contacts as listed is make sure the resistance increases/decreases evenly as you move the blade. Any sudden changes in resistance value probably indicates the internal carbon path has a problem of some sort.

Freedomsr40 can confirm steps taken to replace ECM - I'd check TB first but would be looking around for ECM.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 3.0 TAC Diag.jpg (88.4 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg 3.0 Throttle Body Conn Edit 2.jpg (177.8 KB, 4 views)

...
I rarely visit forum but respond to private messages (PM). PM creates email to phone & please include email address with question. Avoid using Visitor Message feature ... I almost never check those.

Last edited by far2grumpy; 06-07-2016 at 09:13 AM..

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to far2grumpy's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help far2grumpy reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
far2grumpy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2016, 09:59 AM   #35
mark38090
Member
mark38090 has a spectacular aura aboutmark38090 has a spectacular aura about
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Brooker, Fl.
Posts: 68

2003 VUE 3.0L
Default Re: 2003 Saturn Vue Stalling out

Quote:
Originally Posted by freedomsr40 View Post
was your stalling situation like mine?
I have the 2003 AWD v6. My stalling was the ckp, it went bad twice in a year. It would die at highway speed or at idle. There wasn't any pattern. Sometimes it would start right back up other times it would take 20 minutes. Super simple to change.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to mark38090's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help mark38090 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
mark38090 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2016, 02:45 PM   #36
Greggzky
New Member
Greggzky is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Auburn WA
Posts: 6

2003 VUE 3.0L
Default Re: 2003 Saturn Vue Stalling out

Thanks much, Far2Grumpy, for the diagrams and guidance (post #34). I will check the resistances as shown. I suspect though that the ECM is my answer. Freedomsr40, if you have some guidance on ECM selection/replacement, I'd be grateful.

Regarding Post 35 (bad CKP), I replaced that as about the third thing I tried, and the brand new one made absolutely no difference right from the start. It is feasible it was bad right out of the box, and might be a $60 try before I spend hundreds for an ECM. It's interesting that no codes are ever set, which I've read from other posts seems to point to the ECM -- it isn't so good at reporting on its own failures. Stay tuned. It will take me a while to get to the car again, but I will!

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Greggzky's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Greggzky reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Greggzky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2016, 05:34 PM   #37
far2grumpy
Master Member
far2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to behold
 
far2grumpy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Posts: 7,924
 

2005 VUE 3.5L
2007 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: 2003 Saturn Vue Stalling out

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greggzky View Post
Thanks much, Far2Grumpy, for the diagrams and guidance (post #34). I will check the resistances as shown. I suspect though that the ECM is my answer. Freedomsr40, if you have some guidance on ECM selection/replacement, I'd be grateful.

Regarding Post 35 (bad CKP), I replaced that as about the third thing I tried, and the brand new one made absolutely no difference right from the start. It is feasible it was bad right out of the box, and might be a $60 try before I spend hundreds for an ECM. It's interesting that no codes are ever set, which I've read from other posts seems to point to the ECM -- it isn't so good at reporting on its own failures. Stay tuned. It will take me a while to get to the car again, but I will!
I'd try one other thing before replacing CKP or ECM.

I recall a few owners having wiring issues between ECM and ENG MAIN RELAY ... you could extract the relay and install a jumper between sockets mating with pins 30 and 87 ... go for test drive and see if it makes a difference.

You'll want to remove the jumper when you shut engine down because it provides constant battery power to ECM and electronic throttle control and it will deplete battery charge if left in too long.

...
I rarely visit forum but respond to private messages (PM). PM creates email to phone & please include email address with question. Avoid using Visitor Message feature ... I almost never check those.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to far2grumpy's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help far2grumpy reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
far2grumpy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2016, 05:12 PM   #38
Greggzky
New Member
Greggzky is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Auburn WA
Posts: 6

2003 VUE 3.0L
Default Re: 2003 Saturn Vue Stalling out

Going to try the Engine Main Relay bypass you describe above, F2G. But I don't know where that relay is located. Where do I find it on the car?

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Greggzky's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Greggzky reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Greggzky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2016, 07:34 PM   #39
far2grumpy
Master Member
far2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to beholdfar2grumpy is a splendid one to behold
 
far2grumpy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Posts: 7,924
 

2005 VUE 3.5L
2007 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: 2003 Saturn Vue Stalling out

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greggzky View Post
Going to try the Engine Main Relay bypass you describe above, F2G. But I don't know where that relay is located. Where do I find it on the car?
Underhood fuse box ... should be a map on back side of fuse box cover.

...
I rarely visit forum but respond to private messages (PM). PM creates email to phone & please include email address with question. Avoid using Visitor Message feature ... I almost never check those.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to far2grumpy's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help far2grumpy reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
far2grumpy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2016, 09:40 PM   #40
Greggzky
New Member
Greggzky is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Auburn WA
Posts: 6

2003 VUE 3.0L
Thumbs Up Re: 2003 Saturn Vue Stalling out

This is Greggzky (a number of posts tagged onto FreedomSR40's dialog with Far2Grumpy over the last six months. After replacing the battery cables, cleaning all the grounds, checking all the pins (no corroded ones anywhere that I could find), replacing the CKP, gas pedal, and ignition switch, checking to ensure that I had stable voltage coming from the alternator, and even wiring an on/off switch to the fuel pump (died, but not suddenly, while at RPM, with all the dash lights coming on, before the engine had even significantly slowed down) I felt I was where FreedomSR40 was: Replacing the ECM. I started with a used one off E-Bay. It performed nearly the same way as my original, but worse. That gave me confirmation that the ECM was most likely at fault. I bought a factory-reconditioned ECM from CheapGMParts, and had it installed and programmed at a dealer. The car has worked perfectly ever since -- over a month ago. My sister is thrilled -- it hasn't run this well in four years. And another interesting thing -- the car would run the battery down in 3-4 days if not driven. That also seems to be fixed as well. And note that the ECM never set any codes -- apparently what others have said is true: The ECM may be good and pointing out the faults of others, but isn't so good at ratting on itself! At any rate, $1000 later, Sis has a $7000 car back -- low miles, and running like a champ. Whew! Thanks again to all who posted helpful ideas -- especially you, Far2Grumpy. You're making a difference in some pretty desperate peoples' lives.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Greggzky's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Greggzky reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Greggzky is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2003 Vue 3.0 Stalling while driving.. kidmoon90 Vue Tech 10 04-04-2016 12:39 PM
2003 Vue stalling/erratic tach Scubadude Vue Tech 14 06-15-2015 10:48 PM
My 2003 L200 stalling after getting fuel tenchains L-Series Tech 2 11-19-2010 03:44 PM
2003 Vue Stalling mmaz Vue General 5 06-10-2010 10:23 PM
2003 LW300 Stalling ggetman L-Series Tech 4 03-04-2010 09:08 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:20 AM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.