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Old 02-09-2016, 11:42 AM   #41
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Default Re: 2001 SL1 High Idle Problem

Hey, I know you from somewhere!

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Old 02-09-2016, 11:57 AM   #42
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Default Re: 2001 SL1 High Idle Problem

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Originally Posted by SC2Sick View Post
Hey, I know you from somewhere!
I think the world of the Saturn is a shrinking one.

I am scraping all corners of the internet in hopes of finding a clue to solve my problem. At this point it's just about closure. I posted to the sixthsphere site but I am waiting for the mods to approve me.

Where can I find an OEM TPS? Should I just search amazon for one?

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Old 02-09-2016, 12:28 PM   #43
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Default Re: 2001 SL1 High Idle Problem

It's been a long thread, I confess I didn't study it thoroughly... the TPS circuit still seems like a likely culprit. Have you been checking the TPS in live-data, while at the "high idle" and then after the key-off/key-on "reset"?

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Old 02-09-2016, 12:31 PM   #44
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Default Re: 2001 SL1 High Idle Problem

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I posted to the sixthsphere site but I am waiting for the mods to approve me.
I own it, I unlocked it. It's pretty much just an anti spam measure at this point. I think few minutes of waiting > SPAM bots

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Old 02-09-2016, 12:51 PM   #45
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Default Re: 2001 SL1 High Idle Problem

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It's been a long thread, I confess I didn't study it thoroughly... the TPS circuit still seems like a likely culprit. Have you been checking the TPS in live-data, while at the "high idle" and then after the key-off/key-on "reset"?
I have checked the data when the idle was behaving correctly and when it was acting up. The big different I see is the TPS (%) reading around 2.9/3.1 when the idle was "stuck" high and 0.7-1.0 when it was behaving correctly.

By TPS circuit, do you mean the wiring or is there actually something that could be failing there?

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Old 02-09-2016, 12:54 PM   #46
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Default Re: 2001 SL1 High Idle Problem

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I own it, I unlocked it. It's pretty much just an anti spam measure at this point. I think few minutes of waiting > SPAM bots
I'll make sure to check back in a bit to see if I have been unlocked. Thanks for your help.

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Old 02-09-2016, 01:58 PM   #47
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Default Re: 2001 SL1 High Idle Problem

So, live-data is telling you the TPS reading isn't consistent.

By "circuit" I was meaning the TPS itself and the wiring from it to the PCM, including all connectors, and the PCM itself. In addition, the mechanical "circuit" consisting of the TB blade, shaft, shaft stop, return spring, and the arm that contacts the TPS are all possibilities for the TP reading not returning consistently to the same point. (TPS itself,of course, but that has already been changed a couple of times, right?)

Maybe you have just bought several poor TPS units, but I think that is unlikely. I would checked everything else a lot more before throwing another TPS at it.

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Old 02-09-2016, 02:13 PM   #48
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Default Re: 2001 SL1 High Idle Problem

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So, live-data is telling you the TPS reading isn't consistent.

By "circuit" I was meaning the TPS itself and the wiring from it to the PCM, including all connectors, and the PCM itself. In addition, the mechanical "circuit" consisting of the TB blade, shaft, shaft stop, return spring, and the arm that contacts the TPS are all possibilities for the TP reading not returning consistently to the same point. (TPS itself,of course, but that has already been changed a couple of times, right?)

Maybe you have just bought several poor TPS units, but I think that is unlikely. I would checked everything else a lot more before throwing another TPS at it.
Okay that makes sense. I replaced the PCM over the weekend so I am confident it is not that.

I can definitely replace the TSP (again) but it would be number 3 in 2 years. I guess it's possible they've all been bad but... is there a way to test if the sensor is failing?

Another thought... is there anything the chain of custody from the gas pedal to the throttle that could be causing problems as well? Could there be a faulty signal coming from the gas pedal to the TPS that makes it think it should open?

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Old 02-09-2016, 02:25 PM   #49
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Default Re: 2001 SL1 High Idle Problem

Yes, anything making the throttle pedal or cable bind could act as an unintended "throttle stop" and not let the TB/TPS circus return to its proper idle stop. Does you scanner show only TPS %, or will it show TPS volts or ADC counts?

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Old 02-09-2016, 02:39 PM   #50
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Default Re: 2001 SL1 High Idle Problem

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Originally Posted by billr View Post
Yes, anything making the throttle pedal or cable bind could act as an unintended "throttle stop" and not let the TB/TPS circus return to its proper idle stop. Does you scanner show only TPS %, or will it show TPS volts or ADC counts?
The scanner gives me:

FUEL SYS 1
FUEL SYS 2
COOLANT (F)
ST FTRM1 (%)
LT FTRM1(%)
MAP (in. hg)
ENGINE (RPM)
VEH SPEED (MPH)
IGN ADV (DEG)
IAT (F)
ABSLT TPS (%)
SECOND AIR
O2S11
O2S12
OBD2 STAT

I know most of that is irrelevant but I wanted to show everything it reads for clarity.

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Old 02-09-2016, 02:56 PM   #51
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Default Re: 2001 SL1 High Idle Problem

The next time it is idling "high", quickly give it full throttle (at the pedal) and then snap back to idle position; see if that lowers the TPS reading (or idle speed!)

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Old 02-09-2016, 03:05 PM   #52
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Default Re: 2001 SL1 High Idle Problem

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Originally Posted by billr View Post
The next time it is idling "high", quickly give it full throttle (at the pedal) and then snap back to idle position; see if that lowers the TPS reading (or idle speed!)
Okay, on my way home from work, which is 45 miles of highway driving, I'll have the scanner on and reading the live data. I'll let you know what it indicates tonight, both when it's acting normally and when it's idling high.

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Old 02-09-2016, 07:41 PM   #53
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Default Re: 2001 SL1 High Idle Problem

I had the scanner plugged in all drive home and monitored the TPS closely the whole way. I noticed the TPS (%) started at 0.3 when sitting at idle in the parking space when I first got in... As I was driving home the TPS typically sat around 1.1 to 1.5... It would seemingly correspond with the RPMs, when it would be at 1.5 it would be revving higher. I would pay close attention times of when I'd pop the car into neutral or be clutching in. There was one instance where the TPS (%) ran up to 2.7 on its own.. without me touching the gas pedal at all.

I parked in a space later on in the drive and tested the gas pedal while the car was in neutral. There were times where the idle would get stuck up at 2100 or 1800, but then if I really revved the engine and let off the pedal, the idle would "reset" down to 650. I did not have to turn off the engine to settle the RPMs down.

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Old 02-09-2016, 08:51 PM   #54
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Default Re: 2001 SL1 High Idle Problem

That sure hints of a binding throttle shaft, binding throttle cable/pedal, or a weak throttle return spring. When you shut the engine off it can "reset" because there is no manifold vacuum, which (normally) puts a binding load on the throttle shaft. Likewise, going wide-open then letting it snap shut allows inertia of the moving pieces to help. Note that you don't have to let it build up rpm, just quickly go wide-open then shut. The rpm will increase, of course, but not all that much.

Check the throttle return spring carefully. That looks like single torsion spring, but I think it is actually double back-to-back springs. One set of coils could be broken and the throttle would still tend to close OK, but be weak in closing

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Old 02-11-2016, 09:24 AM   #55
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hmm, this gets me thinking. i've experienced exactly the same thing in janus, my 2000 sc2 with 2000 sl1 powertrain. the symptoms are identical. i find it happens especially often when i come into a stop at a pretty good rpm and pop it out of gear while still under load but right after letting off the throttle. it almost seems like the pcm thinks the car is still in gear and i'm bogging the engine down. i can usually "fix" it by keeping it in gear as i compression brake to a stop, until the engine is within its normal idle range, then putting it in neutral right at 800-900rpm.

it does seem a lot like quirky pcm logic triggered by a problematic tps. i had been wondering if my idle air control valve was getting stuck or if i needed to check my map sensor, but this thread has pointed out the importance of the humble tps. even if it seems to be fine, it might actually be dirty or failing! time to take it off and give it a good cleaning.

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Old 02-28-2016, 06:00 PM   #56
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Default Re: 2001 SL1 High Idle Problem

just a follow-up... i swapped the tps for a junkyard one off a car with 150k. the problem immediately vanished, and the engine runs much better too! i didn't realise what i was missing with that damaged tps. i'm gonna pin this issue (in my case, at least) entirely on that one little sensor.

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