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Old 02-15-2015, 10:07 AM   #21
OldGuy43
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Roll Eyes Re: Loud vibration @ low RPM's - Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by billysvue View Post
BUt yet, you stated,"I was able to replicate it pretty easily. The speed was between 40 and 50mph. " YOU need to drive it WITH the service manager in the passenger seat or following your direction on how to duplicate noise. Obviously they didn't want to hear it or didn't follow your direction on how to .

GO back.
I agree, but it's even better if you go back with an answer instead of a question.

That brings up another question; was the car sold "as is" or with a warranty? Even with a warranty the dealer may not be obligated to repair every little problem with a used car.

Last edited by OldGuy43; 02-15-2015 at 10:16 AM..

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Old 02-15-2015, 05:02 PM   #22
VueofBubbles
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Default Re: Loud vibration @ low RPM's - Help

I really do appreciate everyone's feedback. Thus far, I have not gotten a diagnosis from the service folks who I have driven with and heard the issue is "pay me". The closest diagnosis was that it is "the nature of the beast". The service manager stated that the issue can be expensive to figure out" So, they want me to pay them to find the issue. That starts at $92/hr

When I purchased the car, the paper stating "as is" was slipped into my sales file. But, in Washington, if you buy an extended warranty (as I did) it invalidates the "as is" status. It also adds buyer protection that the dealer has to provide a car safe enough to drive on the public highway and in reasonably good condition as per other similar cars of similar price. atg.wa.gov/page.aspx?id=25024#.VOEQ_S7sQRY

I also contacted GM who is going to call the dealership and demand a diagnosis of the issue when I give them the go ahead. (at least that's what they said)

So, what do I do? Call GM? The Washington state Attorney General? Both? Or pay? I don't have any more funds to take it to another repair shop. And the extended warranty won't pay for an issue that the dealer is labeling "normal". And the clock is ticking as I have had this car for just over 30 days. And I am concerned that this issue is going to cause more damage as the vibrations are significant enough to be felt in this seats and pedal / floor boards.

And last but not least, no sound in neutral and no pitch change - thanks OldGuy43

Thanks everyone.

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Old 02-16-2015, 01:12 AM   #23
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Default Re: Loud vibration @ low RPM's - Help

OldGuy43 is right. I can't fix this thing if I don't know what is causing it. I have zero faith in the dealer. I told them from day 1 that the brakes were no good. The salesman lied and said the service folks said the brakes were okay. They fixed them 4 weeks later because I was persistent.

So, anyone want to hedge a guess here as to what this loud low rpm drone be? It is not the safety strip along the side of the road. So, that leaves us with what?

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Old 02-16-2015, 05:26 AM   #24
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Default Re: Loud vibration @ low RPM's - Help

Thank you for that! I hope that I can live up to your expectations.

Next question; What do you have to work with? A jack, jack stands, and most importantly, are you willing to get a little dirty?

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Old 02-16-2015, 05:04 PM   #25
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Default Re: Loud vibration @ low RPM's - Help

I have a small jack and am willing to get a little dirty. What am I looking for?

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Old 02-16-2015, 06:15 PM   #26
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Default Re: Loud vibration @ low RPM's - Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by VueofBubbles View Post
I have a small jack and am willing to get a little dirty. What am I looking for?
First check the exhaust system. If the picture I looked at is correct there should be 6 rubber supports. Shake the whole system and listen for metal to metal contact. Also listen for anything in the muffler or catalytic converter.

Next, with the engine cold look for any sheet metal shields that are loose. Most will be on the back side neat the firewall.

I really suggest that you buy a couple of jack stands for safety. They're cheap insurance.

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Old 02-16-2015, 06:35 PM   #27
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Default Re: Loud vibration @ low RPM's - Help

Another thought. For this one you'll need a helper. Set the parking brake firmly. Have your helper sit behind the wheel and apply the foot brake hard. With you watching the engine bay have the helper put the car in gear and gently apply the throttle. The engine should rock about one inch or so at the most. Anymore and you may have a failing motor mount.

If none of this works let us know.

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Old 02-16-2015, 06:44 PM   #28
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Default Re: Loud vibration @ low RPM's - Help

I did find one more thing that may help you:

http://forums.edmunds.com/discussion...-and-vibration

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Old 02-17-2015, 12:56 AM   #29
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Default Re: Loud vibration @ low RPM's - Help

OldGuy: Could this be it? I got it off the link you gave me...

There is a very specific issue with the "rumble strip" sensation occurring around 40mph, especially under mild acceleration. If the trans fluid is old, non-Honda, or otherwise out of spec, the torque converter bypass clutch will "chatter", and that's what gives you that rumble strip feeling.

That it happens near 40 is the biggest clue. Under mild acceleration, that's when the transmission logic "senses" you're done changing gears, so at that point it tries to lock the driveshaft through the torque converter, a/k/a "bypass clutch". It's the slippage due to bad fluid that causes it to chatter.

Sometimes it will take two fluid changes to fix the problem if you've contaminated the clutch face material with non-Honda fluid. Changing worn-out OEM fluid like musicman1 did will usually nail it on the first try.

What do you think?

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Old 02-17-2015, 06:19 AM   #30
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Default Re: Loud vibration @ low RPM's - Help

It's certainly a possibility and changing the fluid certainly can't hurt.

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Old 02-17-2015, 03:17 PM   #31
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Default Re: Loud vibration @ low RPM's - Help

Oldguy43 you are a genius! Knowledge is power!

So, I called the dealer and told them my theory of changing the transmission fluid to free up the possible rumble strip / bypass clutch issue. I called the service manager of the dealer where I purchased the car.

I spoke with him and told him about my desire to change the trans. fluid as the trans. is very sensitive and they are best suited to do this.

He told me the fluid change wouldn't help anything because THE TRANSMISSION WAS REBUILT, B Y THEM AT 95,487 miles! I purchased the car at 108,790 miles.

Although previous detail of this car was on the carfax report they posted along side of the car, this new trans. issue was not. Their description was "vehicle serviced" and was paid for by the previous owner in the amount of $2600. When I inquired about a relating warranty, the service guy stated "there is none".

Holy Bat Balls Batman! huh?

Okay, so from here, one main concern would be, is the extended warranty that was purchased to safeguard the trans. going to cover a failure in the trans. they might not have known about?

What do I do? Call the attorney general? GM? I am confused. Please help.

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Old 02-17-2015, 04:59 PM   #32
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Default Re: Loud vibration @ low RPM's - Help

As if you don't have enough to think about, what did they do on the rebuild? Did they replace the 3-5-R wave plate or something else? The 6T70 tranny can have issues with that wave plate as some of the wave plates were substandard> If they replaced the plate and rebuilt the tranny, did the plate self destruct or were they able to remove it in one piece. My local GM folks tell me if the plate fails, it is an automatic replacement of the tranny as there is no guarantee of getting all the fragments out of the tranny assembly. He told me it is actually cheaper to straight out replace it than to tear it apart, and then rebuild it.

Just my two cents worth.

Homer

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Old 02-17-2015, 05:00 PM   #33
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Default Re: Loud vibration @ low RPM's - Help

As if you don't have enough to think about, what did they do on the rebuild? Did they replace the 3-5-R wave plate or something else? The 6T70 tranny can have issues with that wave plate as some of the wave plates were substandard. If they replaced the plate and rebuilt the tranny, did the plate self destruct or were they able to remove it in one piece. My local GM folks tell me if the plate fails, it is an automatic replacement of the tranny as there is no guarantee of getting all the fragments out of the tranny assembly. He told me it is actually cheaper to straight out replace it than to tear it apart, and then rebuild it.

Just my two cents worth.

Homer

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Old 02-17-2015, 08:55 PM   #34
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Default Re: Loud vibration @ low RPM's - Help

Before we go any further please do one thing for me. Contact a friend or relative that you have not even mentioned the problem with your car to.

Get them to test drive your car for at least 2 hours. Preferably, let him or her use it for a day.

When they get back ask them if they noticed anything unusual about your car. Do not say anything about a noise or vibration, or lead them to the problem in any way. A simple, "Well, what do you think?" question would be best.

Pay close attention to what they tell you. If they notice the noise or vibration exactly how do they describe it?

What we want is an unbiased opinion.

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Old 02-18-2015, 12:24 AM   #35
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Default Re: Loud vibration @ low RPM's - Help

Just out of curiosity, what are we looking for?

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Old 02-18-2015, 07:39 AM   #36
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Default Re: Loud vibration @ low RPM's - Help

Answers.

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Old 02-18-2015, 03:44 PM   #37
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Default Re: Loud vibration @ low RPM's - Help

I called my buddy who drives an AUDI a4. I didn't say why. He drove it for an hour or two to run some errands. He said that it drives well but could hear and feel a vibration.

I asked at what speeds and such. He didn't remember. He did say it was annoying.

I called a trans. shop and explained the issue to him. He said that it sounds like I am on the right track. Torque Converter related issue.

If so, what to do now? I don't think the dealer is going to pay for this fix. Do I waste my time?

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Old 02-18-2015, 04:20 PM   #38
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Default Re: Loud vibration @ low RPM's - Help

Okay, if it is the transmission, since you bought the car "as is" I'd pretty much guess you're on the hook for it.

Did you do any of the other tests/inspections that I suggested?

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Old 02-21-2015, 01:07 AM   #39
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Default Re: Loud vibration @ low RPM's - Help

So, I took the car to AAMCO which did the trans. test for free. Their conclusion was: "the multi-point check revealed that the rumble strip vibration in gear, power braking, drive and reverse also noticeable at low speed lock up. Could be motor/trans mount or possibly (less likely) torque converter. all else good"

I took out an extended warranty which in Washington, cancels the "as is". The dealer has to provide a reasonably good car without major defects - as per attorney general.

So, I guess this means motor mounts? That's not a major defect? I can't do the other stuff (OldGuy43) as I am dizzy most of the day (ears). I did try.

How do I stress to the dealer that they check motor mounts? Can they lead to damage or danger?

It might just be my imagination, but it seems as if the noise is getting louder.

Next step? I maybe back to square 1... More questions...

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Old 02-21-2015, 07:32 AM   #40
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Default Re: Loud vibration @ low RPM's - Help

Just a reminder; As I said in a previous post I have zero experience with the Vue!

My earlier test (Brakes on, put car in gear, look for excessive movement of engine) was meant to test the fore and aft motor mounts. That was before I knew how many (There are 4.) motor mounts a Vue has, or where they are placed.

On a '70's VW (3 mounts) I would suggest the one on the front (right side) of the motor, but on the Vue...?

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