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Old 10-17-2014, 02:12 PM   #1
darkmasterfox
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Dizzy 97 Saturn starts but won't turn over

A typical question it seems regarding this car and I would really appreciate some help. I have read a lot of similar threads regarding this issue and after a while all the information floods together with the different scenarios and such.

So here is mine:

97 Saturn bought knowing the need to replace the battery, radiator, and water pump. All have been replaced. Drove for a week or so but the water warning light did flash every once in a while even though the radiator and pump had been replaced. Sometime during that week it started to get harder for the car to start, with me having to apply the gas pedal firmer and firmer when starting the engine. Finally one morning the car wouldn't start at all. The car turns over and sounds like it REALLY wants to start but it just won't.

Also at this time the check engine light came on with the cam shaft position sensor code.

Since then me and my dad have replaced the fuel filter and pump, making sure there was enough pressure and that you can hear the whir of the fuel pump starting. New battery cables have been bought and installed. Spark plugs are fine and gets a spark, says my dad. Something is just not catching at the same time?

Can anyone help me out with what to do next? Pretty exhausted and frustrated working with this car but I need it to get to work and school and my dad is leaving today or tomorrow so we really need to get this done. I really respect you guys and I'm so impressed that everyone knows so much. I'd really appreciate any help.

Also please forgive any newbie mistakes (did I post this in the right spot?), thanks!

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Old 10-17-2014, 02:26 PM   #2
cleverbot
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Default Re: 97 Saturn starts but won't turn over

Was the engine coolant temperature sensor (ECTS) replaced? Also check the wiring for the ECTS. It should be the brass type of sensor not the plastic one.

Use the search function to find out more.

Also knowing a bit more about the car would be helpful. Any other repairs that you have done? Also how many miles on the car?

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Old 10-17-2014, 02:30 PM   #3
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Default Re: 97 Saturn starts but won't turn over

The camshaft position sensor code (P0341) indicates ignition system issue. Usually this is either spark plugs or plug wires. Our cars to not have a camshaft position sensor - the position is inferred by the ignition system.

Welcome to the forum and you posted in the right place.

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Old 10-17-2014, 03:11 PM   #4
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Default Re: 97 Saturn starts but won't turn over

Thanks for the replies so far guys.

As far as I know the ECTS is the original and I did read the threads about changing it and brought it up to my dad and he kind of brushed it off like it wouldn't be an issue with the starting. As his daughter, maybe he didn't trust me but I will bring it up again. The miles I don't remember off hand (I am at work and will update when I get home) and the only other work we did was the new radiator, new water pump, oil/filter change, new battery cables, and new fuel pump+filter.

I read that long thread about our cars not having the cam shaft sensor and that it has to do with the spark plugs or the ignition sensor perhaps. If he checked the plugs and made sure there was a spark, what can we do now? Could there be an issue with the timing belt?

Thanks again for the help guys and sorry if I sound like a spaz, I only have a limited personal knowledge but a strong desire to see my car running again!

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Old 10-17-2014, 03:16 PM   #5
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Default Re: 97 Saturn starts but won't turn over

There is no timing belt - it is a chain which rarely fails, and when it is about to, the engine sounds like a bunch of marbles in a metal coffee can.

Having spark and having good spark on all four cylinders are different issues. Plugs and wires are cheap, and if you don't know their age, replace them. If you still have issues with the P0341 code, then you have to get into coils and ICM. Junkyard replacements are favored here.

A bad ECTS can create an overly rich condition which makes the car very hard or impossible to start when cold.

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Old 10-17-2014, 03:28 PM   #6
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Default Re: 97 Saturn starts but won't turn over

Quote:
Originally Posted by BV22 View Post
There is no timing belt - it is a chain which rarely fails, and when it is about to, the engine sounds like a bunch of marbles in a metal coffee can.

Having spark and having good spark on all four cylinders are different issues. Plugs and wires are cheap, and if you don't know their age, replace them. If you still have issues with the P0341 code, then you have to get into coils and ICM. Junkyard replacements are favored here.

A bad ECTS can create an overly rich condition which makes the car very hard or impossible to start when cold.

Okay, thanks for the information. It is very helpful. I will try to change the plugs/wires and the ECTS and let you know how it goes.

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Old 10-17-2014, 03:40 PM   #7
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Default Re: 97 Saturn starts but won't turn over

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkmasterfox View Post
.....As far as I know the ECTS is the original and I did read the threads about changing it and brought it up to my dad and he kind of brushed it off like it wouldn't be an issue with the starting. As his daughter, maybe he didn't trust me but I will bring it up again. ....
Tell your dad this story (you can verify it if you want to spend endless time searching the thread) about a woman asking for help here - the problem was her car couldn't pass NJ state inspection due to the engine not passing its own emissions self tests with a 'not ready' indication on a reader. The only part she needed was a new coolant sensor but her brother-in-law ignored our advice and insisted 'he' knew better as a mechanic and told her to drive several hundred miles until the car's emission self tests went 'ready'. Weeks went by and ignorance continued without passing state emissions inspection as we strongly suggested to her to print out replies from Saturnfans. She finally convinced her (idiot) bil to replace the one part and voila!, car went 'ready' and passed state inspection within days of just replacing this part - the coolant sensor. Below are two pictures, the faulty one and the correct replacement. It takes less than a minute to remove and examine.................to remove all doubt.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg plastic cts.jpg (41.3 KB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg brass cts.jpg (33.6 KB, 5 views)

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Old 10-17-2014, 04:34 PM   #8
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Default Re: 97 Saturn starts but won't turn over

I am leaning towards Wires/plugs or coils.. If it were me the next step would be replace wires and plugs .. then replace ECTS. Because both those are very inexpensive simple very possible fixes. Another thing to check when doing the ECTS is your plugin and wires to the ECTS as these go bad ..sometimes you can fix the problem temporarily by simply moving the wires. If so you know your plugin clip is bad.

The spark plugs this car likes best happen to be inexpensive NGK BKR5ESA-11 gapped to .040 Dont go with anything fancy as they actually won't likely work as well.

Just because you see spark jump doesn't mean you are getting enough.

Then coils as they cost more.

One more thing. You probably have a very good car. I'll be willing to bet once you find this problem and fix it you are going to love your Saturn.

Last edited by climbski; 10-17-2014 at 04:46 PM..

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Old 10-18-2014, 07:10 AM   #9
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Default Re: 97 Saturn starts but won't turn over

i had a 92 sc2 didn't start, after all the other trys i pulled the injector wires 1 at a time and found 1 bad injector , it started on 3. replaced with 4 new injectors and it ran like a champ. just saying...

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Old 10-18-2014, 05:31 PM   #10
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Default Re: 97 Saturn starts but won't turn over

You can check for bad fuel injector with multimeter. Just check the resistance on each of the injectors. I forget what the number is supposed to be, but if you have one way different from the other 3 you've found your bad injector.

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Old 10-18-2014, 06:07 PM   #11
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Default Re: 97 Saturn starts but won't turn over

Quote:
Originally Posted by climbski View Post
I am leaning towards Wires/plugs or coils.. If it were me the next step would be replace wires and plugs .. then replace ECTS. Because both those are very inexpensive simple very possible fixes. Another thing to check when doing the ECTS is your plugin and wires to the ECTS as these go bad ..sometimes you can fix the problem temporarily by simply moving the wires. If so you know your plugin clip is bad.

The spark plugs this car likes best happen to be inexpensive NGK BKR5ESA-11 gapped to .040 Dont go with anything fancy as they actually won't likely work as well.

Just because you see spark jump doesn't mean you are getting enough.

Then coils as they cost more.

One more thing. You probably have a very good car. I'll be willing to bet once you find this problem and fix it you are going to love your Saturn.

Umm...The reverse order would be the best. The ECTS is THE MOST COMMON PROBLEM with Saturns. Everyone knows it. $12-$15 part. If you have to take it out, just replace it. Do that FIRST. If the P0341 exists, change the Plugs and Wires. What's that? $40-$50.? If the car still doesn't start, then you can look at ICM and Coils, and the JY is STILL the best place for that set. If all of these don't solve the problem, further testing is in order, not further parts replacing.

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Old 10-18-2014, 09:01 PM   #12
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Default Re: 97 Saturn starts but won't turn over

^^ bought OEM coils off Ebay last March for 61.99 delivered after OldNuc notified us of them for sale. Nothing like OEM!

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Old 10-20-2014, 11:32 AM   #13
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Default Re: 97 Saturn starts but won't turn over

Update:

Car is now running. My dad still didn't really believe me about the sensor so I watched richpin's video, got the sensor, and fixed it myself. After it was replaced, the car started right away and I was able to drive it work yesterday and today. Check engine light is no longer on and to answer the previous question, she has just under 163,000 miles. Is there anything else I should be aware of?

Thanks for your help everyone. All of your advice really helped me out and it is most appreciated. I will now go back to lurking the forum like usual, I hope I won't need to post any woes soon.

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Old 10-20-2014, 05:35 PM   #14
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Default Re: 97 Saturn starts but won't turn over

Great News!! Pass along your good fortune.
(in other words try to get every Saturn owner to change their ECTS!)

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Old 10-20-2014, 09:14 PM   #15
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Default Re: 97 Saturn starts but won't turn over

Update #2:

When driving home from work to the grocery store I noticed that the car didn't start as fast as before, it took another try and I also pressed the gas lightly to ease it on. When I came back from the grocery store, the car again would turn over but wouldn't start.

I got her towed home and I will go back over the checklist tomorrow. She was fine for the whole two days and then went back to the previous condition. What did I do wrong? Did I forget something? Any input is appreciated. Spark plugs are now next on the list since I have yet to do them.

And Steve44 I will try my best to educate other Saturn owners on the weighty significant magnificence of a new ECTS! It made a world of difference, at least for a little while.

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Old 10-20-2014, 09:26 PM   #16
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Default Re: 97 Saturn starts but won't turn over

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkmasterfox View Post
Update #2:
When I came back from the grocery store, the car again would turn over but wouldn't start.
I thought you said it starts but doesn't turn over? I'm so confused

ANybody asked what the voltage is on the battery when it is running? Have the batt. cable clamps been removed/ cleaned( and the posts, too) then replaced? The basics cover 90% of the problems

Or maybe the harness to the ECTS is ferkakta /intermittent( since it did start and run fine for awhile.)..............

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Old 10-20-2014, 09:40 PM   #17
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Default Re: 97 Saturn starts but won't turn over

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkmasterfox View Post
Update #2:

When driving home from work to the grocery store I noticed that the car didn't start as fast as before, it took another try and I also pressed the gas lightly to ease it on. When I came back from the grocery store, the car again would turn over but wouldn't start.

I got her towed home and I will go back over the checklist tomorrow. She was fine for the whole two days and then went back to the previous condition. What did I do wrong? Did I forget something? Any input is appreciated. Spark plugs are now next on the list since I have yet to do them......
There is one other little annoyance affecting only '97's - a faulty check valve that won't allow fuel pressure to remain high once the fuel lines are pressurized. The fault is in the fuel pump and not worth replacing but modifying starting procedures; simply turn ON ignition (no further), put on seat belt or wait a few seconds, proceed to START. All '97 owners learn this starting procedure from here as almost every '97 has this fuel pump problem. No other year or model. Try it and let us know if this works for you otherwise more troubleshooting will follow.

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Old 10-20-2014, 09:44 PM   #18
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Default Re: 97 Saturn starts but won't turn over

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I thought you said it starts but doesn't turn over? I'm so confused

ANybody asked what the voltage is on the battery when it is running? Have the batt. cable clamps been removed/ cleaned( and the posts, too) then replaced? The basics cover 90% of the problems

Or maybe the harness to the ECTS is ferkakta /intermittent( since it did start and run fine for awhile.)..............

OH, I am sorry billysvue...I have been saying it over and over to many different people (including co-workers to the tow truck guy) that I have been getting confused myself. Basically I turn the key, the car starts and wants with all her little heart to turn over and go but she can't.

Battery is pretty new (just a couple months old) and new cables installed. Posts are clean.

I have a hunch that the ECTS's cover (?)/cap/where it plugs into with the wires isn't either fully on or maybe that piece needs to be changed as well?

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Old 10-20-2014, 09:46 PM   #19
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Default Re: 97 Saturn starts but won't turn over

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There is one other little annoyance affecting only '97's - a faulty check valve that won't allow fuel pressure to remain high once the fuel lines are pressurized. The fault is in the fuel pump and not worth replacing but modifying starting procedures; simply turn ON ignition (no further), put on seat belt or wait a few seconds, proceed to START. All '97 owners learn this starting procedure from here as almost every '97 has this fuel pump problem. No other year or model. Try it and let us know if this works for you otherwise more troubleshooting will follow.

That is interesting...I will go try this right now.

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Old 10-20-2014, 09:48 PM   #20
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Default Re: 97 Saturn starts but won't turn over

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Basically I turn the key, the car starts and wants with all her little heart to turn over and go but she can't.
The problem as mentioned is the fuel pump check valve is bad, All 97's had the problem, You could turn the key to the on position and wait 5 seconds for fuel pressure to build then crank the engine over or drop the tank and replace the pump, Fuel pressure check will clearly indicate the faulty valve.

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