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#1 |
Member
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Location: ATL
Posts: 175
2008 Astra XE
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This is a write-up on how to replace your air conditioning compressor in the event the clutch coil fails. The clutch coil takes in a signal from the computer to tell the compressor to turn on or not. When it's off, it acts as an idle pulley. You can see the hub is stationary while the pulley spins. When it's on, the hub and pulley spin together, now pumping refrigerant through the system and putting extra load on the engine. Our compressors are not meant to be serviceable, so you can't replace the clutch easily. If the actual compressor pump fails, it often puts metal chunks into the system which requires a flush. This does not include how to flush your A/C system, which is a much more involved process. This is only for the blown clutch coil, which requires replacement of a perfectly fine compressor pump
![]() Total cost of special tools (gauges + tap + pump): $157 ($77 cheap pump) Total cost of parts needed: $294.68 Total cost of repair: $451.68 ($371.68 cheap pump) Dealer quote: $621.94 for the compressor, $965.07 including labor! And if they find any metal chunks in the line indicating pump (not coil) failure, it would be a whopping $1,431.28!!! Yikes, no thank you. Diagnosis:
Tools:
Parts and supplies:
![]() *ignore the leak sealer refrigerant I originally bought. Ended up going back to the store for the normal stuff. Also not pictured: u-joint, cheater bar, scale. Compressor replacement: With engine off:
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#2 |
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Location: ATL
Posts: 175
2008 Astra XE
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Evacuate and charge the system:
With engine off:
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#3 |
Advanced Member
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Thanks for the great write-up and all the photos. I hope to never have to do this, but if I do, this seems like a great write-up.
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Drives: 2014 Volt, 2017 Acadia Past Cars: 08 Astra, 15 Acadia, 12 Enclave, 09 Traverse, 05 Vue, 04 Grand Prix, 00 Alero, 97 LeSabre, 72 Cutlass S |
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#4 |
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Location: ATL
Posts: 175
2008 Astra XE
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Thanks, I hope it's helpful but at the same time I hope no one needs it. A/C is complicated and costly if not done right. I'm still not 100% sure I did every little thing right, but it seems to be playing nice after almost a week. If anyone has some tips/tricks/advice feel free to post them. User fdryer was very helpful in figuring out how to proceed with this repair.
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SOLD - '08 Astra XE 5-speed '02 Saturn SC2 DOHC 5-speed '72 Chevrolet El Camino '31 Ford Model A pickup '69 Lotus Europa |
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#5 |
Super Member
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Please, don't drag me into this!? This is all your doing, and done well! You did everything possible for the best outcome and repair. Only time will tell whether a/c season continues or needed next year. It's always a gamble with a/c repairs; did I do it right and nothing leaks, will the next hard bump in the road cause another leak or will it last for as long as I drive my car? I'm in the same boat with a second repair I missed the first time. So far, my repairs lasted all summer and no new leaks any where.......... That's a good thing for me. Next year will tell me more as NYC weather cools off and I use less a/c.
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#6 |
Member
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Is it worth taking the extra step to add some dye for future leak detection? Is that stuff available in small quantities? Like for one application as in this example?
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#7 |
Super Member
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Dye was added during factory assembly and permanently mixed with oil. Unless oil is completely drained from a system, adding more dye isn't necessary. There are single dose dye packets for this purpose or refrigerant w/dye at higher cost than regular refrigerant. A simple look under the service valve caps will usually show dye to indicate how easily it leaks out. Dye remains in circulation and has no 'freshness date' - it doesn't fade away in a system. Once it leaks out, it will take a few weeks for dye to fade away. While fresh dye leaks are visible, a small uv blacklight is all that's needed to find dye stains anywhere it leaks outs, even weeks later.
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#8 | |
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And is that statement a universal? Dye is added to oil on all factory systems of all manufactures? |
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#9 |
Super Member
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If a system requires a complete flush then oil, dye, and anything else is removed so dye replenishment would be a good idea. My 11yr old L300 still shows fresh dye glow when I removed a line and inadvertently tilted it, with oil and dye dribbling out on the garage floor. No uv light needed as the green dye is obvious. Glows bright with a uv light. Dye is an aid to searching for leaks, not a guarantee.
I use service manuals for information and Saturns use dye. I cannot comment on whether or not dye is used on Ferrari's, Range Rovers, Fords, Toyota's, etc.. In my opinion, its a no brainer to add (approximately) 1/4 ounce of dye to any vehicle a/c system at factory assembly to make it easier for most a/c techs to find a leak to reduce troubleshooting time. I'm not paid to work on a/c systems and it took all of 1 minute to point my inexpensive uv blacklight and find the source of my leak. In a typical parking lot at night just before going into Home Depot. |
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#10 |
Advanced Member
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Location: Maine
Posts: 806
2008 Astra XR
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Wow, this is impressive
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#11 |
Member
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maschinenbauer did you investigate just replacing your clutch and coil since your compressor was in good shape?
My coil also recently went out (Thermal Fuse Blew) and I see they have the coil and clutch available separately: 93180340 - About $250 so probably better off just getting the entire new compressor for not much more. I went ahead and went the very cheap route and fixed (modified) my coil, removed a spacer in the clutch and put it back together. Should get a few more years out of the set up. Once I did the evacuation (had a shop do it) I then took off the AC line and compressor to work on it out of the vehicle. Do not think you could do this stuff while it was still on the car. What I found was my clutch was too far away from by pulley due to the clutch material wearing away over time. The gap was about as thick as a credit card. I would imagine the coil trying to overcome this gap got a bit hot and thus that was the reason for the thermal fuse to blow. I removed the clutch with the single torx screw in the center and underneath the the clutch on the arbor of the compressor there was a single washer in there acting as a shim. I removed that and reinstalled the clutch and checked the clearance to the pulley. It still spun freely and the gap I had before was gone. So this will make it much easier for the coil to suck in the clutch to the pulley. The amount of clutch material that was left before it hits the rivets that hold it together was minimal. That's why I say I can probably only get a few more years out of the clutch set up. ![]() So then I had to fix my coil. I removed the pulley to reveal the door that hid the thermal fuse behind it. You will need a pair of snap ring pliers ($3.50 from Harbor freight) to remove the ring that holds on the pulley then just a couple of flat head screw drivers to pry it off. It is not pressed on or anything just tight from years of sitting there. If you are in a corrosion state this might be impossible (get a new compressor) ![]() Then I got to the thermal fuse. Pried out the two silver clips that hold it in and replaced it with about three strands of copper wire wound together. It is a bit of a risk not replacing the fuse with another fuse but I figure I will just diagnose ac problems the old fashioned way when the compressor stares screeching something is wrong. Thermal fuses on AC compressors are a rather new thing. Compressors before them just went till they failed. At least then you could feel good about replacing the compressor because you knew you needed one. Who knows how many compressors have been replaced needlessly because the thermal fuse blew because of a problem with the clutch. Makes the re-builders jobs much easier. I bet 3/4 of the compressor cores they get back are in perfect shape. ![]() Then put it all back together with new o-rings ac the compressor fitting as maschinenbauer described below. Got it recharged and good to go. Costs: Evacuate AC system - Free Draw down Vacuum test and Recharge AC system - $100.00 shop labor No charge for freon since they took out just as much as they put in. Snap Ring Pliers - $3.50 Harbor Freight Compressor Fitting O-Rings - $5.00 - Local NAPA Auto Parts Store |
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#12 |
Member
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Location: ATL
Posts: 175
2008 Astra XE
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Nice work! I did look into the thermal fuse replacement, but the compressor didn't cost much more so I went that route just in case.
I actually still have my old compressor lying around because I wanted to take it apart to see how to fix it... thanks for doing the thinkin work for me. I know space is tight under the engine, but I imagine this could maybe be done without breaking the lines open and having to recharge. Clever thermal fuse replacement. I recall a similar fix to my clothes dryer in college... ![]() I have changed my driving habits to try to lengthen the life of my new A/C clutch. I only engage/disengage the A/C compressor while at idle so there is minimal friction and heat. Turning on the A/C at 85 mph on the freeway is probably like dumping the clutch at a drag race. Not good for wear ![]()
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#13 |
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Location: Marietta, GA
Posts: 281
2008 Astra XR
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Good info maschinenbauer and SM! That #93180340 is one pricey piece - looks like it's the $300 range now!
SM, what did you use to hold the clutch while removing the single Torx bolt? I use an impact wrench for jobs like this, but I know there's a special tool for use without it. |
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#14 |
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2008 Astra XE
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Geez, $300? That's more than what I spent on my whole compressor, shipped!
I bet you could hook up a 12V supply to the clutch coil harness to hold the pulley against the hub.
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SOLD - '08 Astra XE 5-speed '02 Saturn SC2 DOHC 5-speed '72 Chevrolet El Camino '31 Ford Model A pickup '69 Lotus Europa |
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#15 | |
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#16 | |
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I did not get a pic of the face of the clutch, all I noted was that it was getting close to the rivets that hold it together. I have never seen a new one but I would imagine there is significantly more material there when new. Thus the reason for the gap the thickness of a credit card after 50k miles. |
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#17 | |
Super Member
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Important Check reference gap between clutch and friction surface of the belt pulley at 4 points with feeler gauge and form mean value. Adjust the reference gap for the compressor clutch. Inspect reference gap of compressor clutch. Specification Reference value: 0.3-0.7 mm (0.012-0.028 in). Correct the reference gap. The air gap between clutch plate and pulley face allows complete disengagement when power is removed from the clutch coil. The clutch plate is designed for a certain amount of flex, acting as the mechanical equivalent of a hydraulic clutch without the complexity of a master/slave unit and oil. The minimum air gap prevents clutch plate slippage. Thermal fuses serve a purpose, to open under certain conditions - typically 211-217°C (380-454°F). Overheating occurs if a system; a)is overfilled creating higher discharge pressures and temperatures causing compressors to work harder, heating up above expected operating temperatures, b)a break down occurring internal to a compressor possibly causing a seizure with the clutch plate slipping against the pulley face creating high enough temperatures from friction to heat up, detected by the thermal fuse to open and c)a dead short in the coil causing high current. Coils are around 2-3 ohms and can operate with around 7 amps - about 100watts, more current than high beams or HID lights. Thermal fuses provide another layer of protection for the a/c and electrical system and rarely fails. When they do open, its usually due to overheating situations. The next time a/c is used, try feeling several places on the a/c system; the compressor body, discharge line from compressor to condenser coil and suction line return. Expect hot/very hot temps from the compressor and discharge line, cool to sweating suction line. Normal operating temperatures. Last edited by fdryer; 07-17-2015 at 09:15 PM. |
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#18 |
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God info, thanks fdryer. Wikipedia lists the thickness of a credit card at .76mm so I would imagine I was at the upper level of the acceptable margin. There was only one shim on the arbor so that is really the only adjustment I had.
I could feel the flex in the clutch plate but it did not seem anything could pull that down to the face of the pulley where it needed to be . Gap was just to big. |
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#19 |
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Well thanks for the info but I call the experts, whenever i face such kind of problems!!!
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http://www.refrigerantworld.com/ |
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#20 |
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You are welcome Jerry and thanks for the entirely useless post.
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