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Old 09-08-2014, 01:22 AM   #1
mrjiggy
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Default newbie urgent help needed 2008 XE

Greetings everyone,

This is my first post on this forum but have good look on forums with cars ive owned, so I hope to have the same experience the knowledgeable people here. My girlfriend owns a 2008 Astra XE. It recently died and was towed to a shop the said it needed a new alternator and starter. I knew the alternator was on its way out. I purchased the parts and took it to my personal mechanic as the dealership wanted crazy money of course. He installed the new alternator and starter. He got it to start up once then never again . Now it just clicks, battery is new and testing as fine. Going through his scan tool (he had to use it as an opel because it wouldn't recognize it as a GM) he sees that the vehicle has a immobilizer and keeps throwing a code of low battery and alternating between that and low key battery (he re flashed the key and it didn't do the trick). Swapped out the relay and tested the fuses all good. Hes thinking due the the battery being drained so many times the BCM may have lost its programming? Hes going to talk to some of his friends that used to work at Saturn tomorrow. Any thoughts advice ? Thanks in advance.

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Old 09-08-2014, 03:02 AM   #2
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Default Re: newbie urgent help needed 2008 XE

Check for a blown 175 amp fuse that supplies 12v power to the starter. This fuse is inline between the battery cable and starter.
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Old 09-08-2014, 12:58 PM   #3
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Default Re: newbie urgent help needed 2008 XE

Thanks, going to check that today ill let you know!

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Old 09-10-2014, 09:57 PM   #4
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Default Re: newbie urgent help needed 2008 XE

Thanks guys the fuse was fried! Now it works.... however still having some troubles...ill save that for another post!

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Old 09-11-2014, 07:03 PM   #5
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Default Re: newbie urgent help needed 2008 XE

Thanks for following up and posting positive results!

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Old 10-01-2014, 03:56 PM   #6
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Default Re: newbie urgent help needed 2008 XE

I have this issue now, but mine goes much deeper, which I will get into in a minute, but first WHERE did you get the 175A fuse? What one do you know or can you find out?

Mine has blown and the dealership of all places doesnt have anything/know what one. Neither does the shop my car is sitting at right now. Someone point me to where I can buy that fuse and I will love you forever!

Also, beyond this. My car is causing all kinds of trouble. Battery and alternator issues like the OP. Replaced Battery, no go. Turned out to be alternator. Rebuilt and best kind. Then, started noticing every time it rained the car would act up. One day in August we had torrential rain. Driving along all the electronics on the dash shut off, in the order of radio going fuzzy, instrument cluster going out, wipers stopping and power steering dying. She wouldnt start up. Left her, went back next day still wouldnt start.

I took out the UEC computer under the fuse block and took it home to clean it out and dry it out in case water was inside. Reinstalled a few days later, she ran fine. More rain. more issues. Was driving to work one day, and she just shut off on me. The only other questionable symptoms I was experiencing prior to this in dry weather was when slowing down and stopped in traffic, she would idle higher, and drop down low, almost like it wanted to stall. Give it some gas and was ok.

So, back on track. The day she shut down, I ran codes. got all kinds. I dont remember which ones came first but I remember at that point p0642 came on. I couldnt find much info on it but it seems its throttle related. Its a 5v low reference code for the ECU.

So, then had her come and she would run, but was very rough idle and then shut down. Ran her again a few times like this then she shut down and would never start. Pulled codes, crankshaft position sensor code. P0335. So, bought the sensor and tried to replace it but it was a ***** to get off, without being on a lift, so after removing the starter had to tow it and have it done. She was cranking at this point.

Get it towed, this is when I find out the inline fuse is gone. she wouldnt crank after sensor and starter was installed. He bypassed it, and she ran, but he pulled my P0642 code i originally had which is the code for the ECU. I know if I bring it to the dealer they will tell me to buy a new ECU. I dont feel like it is the computer itself, but the wiring harness. I am not electrically enclined, so I can not test all these wires myself, without some assistance, but there is quite a bit of corrosion on the wires and thats what leads me to believe its a fault in the harness or short to ground etc somewhere. I have had a ton of codes, which are below:

P0700
P0562
P0501
P2544
P0244
P0730
P0113
P0102.

MAF was unplugged during alternator install and forgot to plug back in so thats probably when I had that code but again I dont remember.

Long story short, has anyone had a similar issue? I have friends who had worked with Vauxhall and they say sometimes its not the computer at all but the wiring harness, and remember a few instances where the harness whas chafed. I spent 400 dollars in labour today for them to pretty much tell me stuff I already knew but had hoped was just related to the sensor being gone.

In the meantime, a source for the fuse would be appreciated! All they have is the bolt down kind.

I should add if I havent mentioned above, this has all been linked to rain, and I forgot to mention, I had a leak I believe at the windshield because when I pulled up my carpets I had about 2 inches of water all across the floors. I took everything out and cleaned that all up and cleaned the carpets and after a week of drying and checking all internal connections reassembed and put back together. Internal simple wiring I dont mind, but I am not electrically inclined nor do I know where to look first without assistance. Oh and no fuses blown in the front fuse box or rear REC fuse box.

...
~Christina~
Astra XR5: 3M Film,GID, Arm Rest, SRi Wheel, Tints (50/35/13), Pioneer Nav Unit, Debadged, Glovebox Cooling, VXR Surrounds, Painted Grill, XP Spoiler, HIDS, Footwell Lighting. Pics Up :)

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Old 10-01-2014, 07:44 PM   #7
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Default Re: newbie urgent help needed 2008 XE

I find it hard to believe a fuse isn't available but there can be exceptions. I didn't know there are two large amperage fuses, 175A and 200A. I haven't figured out why a car needs these large fuses for the starting circuit when most car starting systems don't have fuses for starters.............

If you can, post a picture and any specs for each fuse. Your owner's manual may have fuse specs/part number. If one can't be found from a dealer or ebay, there may be other sources to check before resorting to adapting another fuse for this application.
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Old 10-01-2014, 07:57 PM   #8
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Default Re: newbie urgent help needed 2008 XE

The dealer doesnt have a part # on the fuse. Called two dealers same thing. They only have one part # and its a fuse box bolt on fuse. not the one in the battery harness.

I said what would you do if it blew and you had to do a repair? Dont you have repair "kits" you can look up in the system like they do for other parts. he said no, we dont usually repair it but replace it. Go figure. Im not paying 500$ for a new entire harness. The ground harness is of course purchasable easily and repairable, but the positive being linked into the main harness is not unless you replace the whole unit.

Maybe its just where I live. I have no info on the fuse, just a picture I took of it when I looked at it when I was trying to diagnose wiring myself. There was some corrosion on the outside of the harness that made me open it. The insulation was cracked and peeling as it is in other areas and that leads me to believe its wiring issue not computer.

Give me a second I will see what info I can find on the fuse in the manual. I dont think anything listed. Alldata has nothing listed there either, and the vauxhall manual wont list the 175A because they dont use 175A. Our battery positive/main harness is different part # than theirs. their max fuse is 125A. I have a friend who works at Vauxhall who looked for me also.

I'll post pics in a second. I saw you mention a 200A fuse in your post, never looked at your picture yet but I am assuming its the one at the Auxiliary fuse box Above the UEC

...
~Christina~
Astra XR5: 3M Film,GID, Arm Rest, SRi Wheel, Tints (50/35/13), Pioneer Nav Unit, Debadged, Glovebox Cooling, VXR Surrounds, Painted Grill, XP Spoiler, HIDS, Footwell Lighting. Pics Up :)

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Old 10-01-2014, 08:08 PM   #9
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Default Re: newbie urgent help needed 2008 XE

So here is the pics of the inline fuse that blew. I have pics of the 200 one also, but I cant find it offhand. I wonder if that one is blown also? It did "spark" when my friend pushed on the fuse box it sparked and she shut down. Thats a pretty powerful fuse though, and I would assume she wouldnt have ran if that blew. I am not sure what runs off that 200A fuse.

Corrosion and damage to insulation

[IMG][/IMG]

Fuse inside

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

dealer only has PN 94700854 which is a bolt on fuse.

...
~Christina~
Astra XR5: 3M Film,GID, Arm Rest, SRi Wheel, Tints (50/35/13), Pioneer Nav Unit, Debadged, Glovebox Cooling, VXR Surrounds, Painted Grill, XP Spoiler, HIDS, Footwell Lighting. Pics Up :)

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Old 10-01-2014, 08:16 PM   #10
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Default Re: newbie urgent help needed 2008 XE

Im not overly good with electrical diagrams, but looking at the one you posted I see why the 175A fuse blew (when the pos off the starter motor arced) but I wonder, when it blew that fuse could it have travelled and blown the 200A fuse also?

How can I test that fuse? It mustnt have anything to do with the lack of throttle response though, because when the mechanic bypassed the fuse, he got the car to start, so starting is not the issue wth the new Crankshaft sensor in. It wouldnt start after installing that because the fuse was blown when it was towed.

So, even replacing that fuse doesnt help me with the P0642 code I am getting. Which I got before the crankshaft sensor went. Although it could have been on the way out, and then just went completely for a no start. The non responsive throttle is connected to the ECM and that P0642 code low 5v reference.

Where would I start to look to try to diagnose that? Mechanic that has it now hasnt done anything with that because they dont have the tools to reprogram it (Tech2) and I really dont want to be spending 100$ an hour plus, just for them to do stuff I can try to eliminate first. If its the computer damaged its the computer damaged, but I would imagine it would have blown those fuses first before damaging the computer, and they were not blown when I had the issue. I really think its corroded wiring related. I am not an expert on how to test wiring for continuity/voltage/shorts although if there was a short wouldnt a fuse be blown? No fuses were blown prior to today.

...
~Christina~
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Old 10-01-2014, 09:53 PM   #11
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Default Re: newbie urgent help needed 2008 XE

1-The 175 amp inline fuse as shown in wiring diagrams is for the starter. The pics you show appear to confirm what dealer and repair shop say, to replace the entire harness. Other than stripping one off a junk yard Astra, I can only suggest two alternative repairs - creating a fuse block to hold a replaceable 175A fuse or simply run a new wire without fuse as a replacement for the harness with inline fuse. The safe repair alternative would be to cut and attach a terminal block to hold a replaceable 175 amp fuse as shown below (Google 175 amp fuse images).

175A fuse; http://shop.pkys.com/Blue-Sea-System...lt_p_2047.html

fuse block; http://www.bcbroncos.com/store/produ...roducts_id=562

If you decide to use this suggestion, be absolutely sure the existing wire isn't damaged from over current when the fuse blew. A burned wire that powers the starter may not be capable of carrying the high current again if its cooked. Simple replacing this wire is easy by looking at wire markings that show gauge size. Making up another harness consists of measuring for length and buying/attaching new terminals to each end for the bolt size and cutting mid length or wherever convenient to attach an inline fuse block using two more terminals. Alternative depends on using the appropriate wire gauge to handle the high current, proper crimping of terminals to handle high current and a fuse - all designed to anticipate the highest current needed. Starters usually draw much less current in every day situations so a safety factor of two to three times is built in.

Testing this inline fuse is easy; a simple multimeter or 12v test light can check for any fuse. The negative probe of test light or multimeter is attached to any ground on the chassis, the test light or meter probe is pressed to each side of the fuse where its crimped to the main wire. A good fuse will show 12v or light up on BOTH sides of the fuse (the ground probe provides a circuit). A blown fuse will show 12v or light only on one side and not the other. The downstream side of a blown fuse going to the starter won't show 12v or light.

2-The 200 amp fuse also powers the starter in another part of the starting circuit. You can test it the same way as mentioned previously. Both high amperage fuses are for the starter and not for anything else.

3-I don't know why P0642 occurred but it may be due to the fuse blowing from a momentary short circuit condition that lowered battery voltage and triggered the error code. Its just a guess as no one knows why the 175 amp fuse blew other than a damaged starter shorting out or the engine stalled and cannot turn over that overloads the starter that instantly draws current than needed and blows the fuse............

An offhand guess is the inline wire with 175 amp fuse is at least 4 gauge or higher (2 gauge) to carry the largest current needed for the starter motor. A custom made wire harness can be made at less cost than GM's replacement but you'll have to pay attention to details as any mechanical connections that aren't done correctly becomes the weak link and can lead to poor electrical connections resulting in burning/heating. 175 amps x 12 volts = 2,100 watts. Someone with electrical wiring skills familiar with house wiring can easily handle a small project to make a new harness.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 175A fuse.jpg (69.2 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg fuse block.jpg (11.9 KB, 4 views)

Last edited by fdryer; 10-01-2014 at 10:02 PM..

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Old 10-01-2014, 10:17 PM   #12
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Default Re: newbie urgent help needed 2008 XE

Ok so I tested them correctly before. That is what I did and my readings were good on multimeter, I just wasnt sure if I really tested it properly.

No the thing is you have it backwards. The p0642 and no start came FIRST. They are also unrelated to the blown fuse. The blown fuse was caused when the guy towed it. I went into the house and when I came back, there was smoke under the car. He used the extinguiser. but basically, the battery terminal at the starter had arched and caused the fuse to be blown. The fuse was fine before that happened. The staring issue was there before that happened, and was because of the crankshaft position sensor engine code. I never got to replace the sensor to verify the car would start again before the fuse blew because I had to have it towed to replace the sensor. But he bypassed the blown fuse after swapping the sensor and it wouldnt crank, and when he bypassed the fuse the car started.

The p0642 and all other codes listed came from before the blown fuse, and are tied to rain, and in my opinion, bad wiring/corrosion somewhere. It hasnt been to the dealer yet, and the other mechanic didnt tell me to replace the harness. That is my thinking that it is harness related not computer. He says computer simply because he pulled that code, and doesnt have proper tools to reprogram computer (dealer has of course).

Also now that the fuse got blown from arcing, I dont trust the harness however when I called for an update today and asked him about the electrical because I asked him to check all wiring, he said it was all fine (I have some reservations on trusting this).

Im going to go pick it up tomorrow (Tow) and bring it back home where I can further examine wiring after this has happened, because 450$ later and they couldnt tell me anything I didnt already know, and towing it caused a blown fuse and extra money out of my pocket, but I had to tow it because the sensor needed to be replaced and I couldnt get at it on jacks only. I dont know why they put the sensor where they did. Its so hard to access and change!

Unfortunately finding a used harness is a no go locally. There is one parted astra here, and it is entirely stripped. I have tried to search this harness online with no luck used. It could be other wiring harness causing issues as well, the chasis or engine harnesses, etc. I need to see exactly what and where this harness branches into.

At least with it back home I can try to eliminate. Its just hard without a garage and with the weather getting worse as the days go by, but I dont feel like getting ripped off by the dealer either and want to eliminate anything I can first to save time and money

...
~Christina~
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Old 10-01-2014, 10:40 PM   #13
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Default Re: newbie urgent help needed 2008 XE

Crank sensors are placed not for your convenience; since it has to detect the machined teeth on crankshafts, there are only so many places on an engine block so its placed as close as possible.

This isn't a dying battery issue is it? Towing a car, unless a warning is given in your owner's manual, normally will not cause electrical problems so its a mystery how towing caused a high amperage fuse to blow. Repeated attempts to start would usually drain the battery and heat up the wire and starter..........

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Old 10-02-2014, 06:21 AM   #14
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Default Re: newbie urgent help needed 2008 XE

No the battery is fine it's new. My issue isn't the blown fuse I know how it happened. Loose connection on the starter motor like I said (friend didn't connect it right) and then when I went in the house I'm assuming the tow guy tried to start it, which caused the arcing.
That happened because of user error and as crappy as it is to deal with, I know how to deal with that. It's the original issue and why it was towed in first place that is my problem. Which was everything I stated above, and then crankshaft sensor went and I had it replaced and it works but doesn't resolve the other issue

...
~Christina~
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Old 10-02-2014, 11:34 AM   #15
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Default Re: newbie urgent help needed 2008 XE

If you end up needing a wiring harness, there's some listed on www.car-part.com. Was the corrosion/insulation breakdown there before the arcing, or was it a result of the arcing? It looks like arcing damage.

Good luck. It looks like a nightmare to deal with (and this is coming from an electrical engineer)

...
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Old 10-02-2014, 11:44 AM   #16
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Default Re: newbie urgent help needed 2008 XE

Unfortunately, your original post (thread jacking), #6 scattered info with more than one symptom and no repairs or solutions made until following up after suggestions were made. If you read your own posts, you may agree.

Put another way, what's your problem now? Its obviously not the loose starter power wire or blown fuse as was inferred in your original post. Perhaps starting a new thread may serve you better?

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Old 10-04-2014, 11:09 PM   #17
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Default Re: newbie urgent help needed 2008 XE

My problem is the fuse. And I didnt start a new thread because I had searched and found this thread with the same problem and solution, so I posted here in hopes they would see it and reply.

My other problem is the P0642 code pulled and p065E to name a few (They were all listed) which was the beginning issue and still unresolved.

Both issues are listed in my first post. Codes the bigger issue, but in the meantime, the fuse was an issue.

I gave all the info I could and needed to for my issues.

...
~Christina~
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Old 10-04-2014, 11:16 PM   #18
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Default Re: newbie urgent help needed 2008 XE

Quote:
Originally Posted by emg77 View Post
If you end up needing a wiring harness, there's some listed on www.car-part.com. Was the corrosion/insulation breakdown there before the arcing, or was it a result of the arcing? It looks like arcing damage.

Good luck. It looks like a nightmare to deal with (and this is coming from an electrical engineer)
The corrosion issue (assumed) was before the arching (of the starter motor) thats not to say arching didnt occur from the UEC etc prior. I wouldnt be suprised. I think thats what upset the computer in the first place from water. I saw corrosion on the battery harness at the fuse area, and it had damaged the insulation (brittle) but not really any signs of it inside. The shutting down, then the no start all resulted from the night it shut down in the torrential rain we had and all the electrics went. It wouldnt start for a good 3-4 days because of continuous rain. I removed the UEC computer let it dry out and put it back on. She started enough to drive her home but everything was failing (lights, power steering) but it ran. It dried out and started fine but shut down while driving. In the rain of course. Got it home, it would start but idle very rough and eventually no throttle response and shut off and wouldnt start again. Crankshaft sensor code. thats been replaced it runs again (With fuse bypassed since its blown and they cant find a replacement) but I still have the codes from the computer and no throttle response. I couldnt find info on that p0642 when I was looking but it seems its throttle related. I took two inches of water off the floors under the carpet. I also sealed up the doors and speakers to prevent further water getting in.

I'll take a look on that website thanks. I have called my insurance about it to see if it can be covered under comprehensive for water damage because if this is a costly repair I would rather it go thru insurance. Thats what I pay it for. I have to meet with adjuster Monday morning.

...
~Christina~
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