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Old 06-12-2014, 08:05 AM   #1
Darkone
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Default Poor exelaration at surtin speeds.

To began with I have posted one other thread on this problem before But last time I did it from my self phone and didn't clarify the problem correctly. Ive been having problem with a bogging problem. I got this car saturn sw2 1995 DOHC 1.9L about a year ago or close. Since then I have replaced the following in order.

>Starter
>Battery
>SparkPlugs
>Valve cover gasket ( Had a Shop do that.)
>Fuel Filter.
>TPS Senser (this fixed a High Idle I had)
>New Gasket for Throttle body
>CTS (just the one in the head not the dash gauge)
Spark plug wires ( regrettably this should have been one of my first things to do as it cleared up the wild bucking on acceleration and when pressing the gas at all.
>5W 30 instead of 10W 30 (gave it more Power)

Problems I know about and getting ready to fix.
Tranaxale Mount and left side motor mount.
KPS.
Iac.
Checking for shorts in wiring.
Figure Out why the coolant fan dose not turn on.
Probly some new struts in the meer future.

So know that I have givin a rundown of what ive down, here is what is still happening. When I first start the car its all good no problems at all. It go's and dose not bog. about 1 to 5min depending on outside temperature, It will get this bog. I can go from a light and have good excel but at 30mph I can press the pedal and it will jump about 400rpm then seconds later it will fall about 200rpm. I can let of the gas and repeat and same results. Then at 35 mph the rpms drop to about 1400 i have to press the pedal down half way to get it to break bog. Note the father I press the pedal down the more it bogs. Then I guise a senser some where detects the bog rather it be the o2 senser or map because It instantly shoots up about 1000 so RPMs. then I let of the gas and it will go to about 2000 rpms briefly then drop to about 1400rpms again. It dose this threw all speeds past 35 mph. Its most severe at that speed though. I should also add that it used to buck at 35 mph any time I Pressed the pedal tell I got it half way down. New spark plugs fixed this.

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Old 06-12-2014, 09:28 AM   #2
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Default Re: Poor exelaration at surtin speeds.

Blocked cat converter? It would not hurt if you replaced the ECTS as well, when they go bad many things go wrong...

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Old 06-12-2014, 09:39 AM   #3
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Default Re: Poor exelaration at surtin speeds.

It's ACCELERATION and CERTAIN

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Old 06-12-2014, 12:12 PM   #4
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Default Re: Poor exelaration at surtin speeds.

so you think cat. hmm well I do get a lout of pinging noises from under the front end of the car. I didn't think it to be a clogged cat though. As I can still get it out of the bog by just giving it more gas. Must have missed that word on spell check.

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Old 06-12-2014, 12:47 PM   #5
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Default Re: Poor exelaration at surtin speeds.

and the cts and ects are the same there just one that goes to the pc and the other goes to the gauge on the dash. I replace the one going to the pcm.

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Old 06-12-2014, 01:27 PM   #6
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Default Re: Poor exelaration at surtin speeds.

Did you run it out of oil and cook the bearings? If you are getting a loud knocking noise, your poor acceleration may be because you toasted your engine.

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Old 06-13-2014, 09:18 AM   #7
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Default Re: Poor exelaration at surtin speeds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkone View Post
so you think cat. hmm well I do get a lout of pinging noises from under the front end of the car. I didn't think it to be a clogged cat though. As I can still get it out of the bog by just giving it more gas. Must have missed that word on spell check.
INteresting....you can try removing the O2 sensor and going for a short boot, if the problem is gone, then it's the cat. The pinking sound has to be addressed, if it is indeed pinking. The ECU would detect knock and pull timing, but enough to create a bogging? IDK.....

BTW, is your car an automatic? In that case, you may just be feeling the bog as the car shifts from 2-3, and from 3-4. I notice the same 'symptoms' in my Saturn, and at first I thought something was wrong too!

If you do have the automatic, try selecting 3 instead of D, and go for a drive past 35 mph. I have a feeling that this might be the cause of the bog feeling. With these little 4 cyl motors, they feel totally guttless below 2000 rpm, esp when the tq locks up.

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Old 06-13-2014, 09:56 AM   #8
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Default Re: Poor exelaration at surtin speeds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLfun View Post
The ECU would detect knock and pull timing, but enough to create a bogging? IDK.....
Knock sensor failure?

My Outback toasted its knock sensor. Anything more than just limping it out of the driveway was a chore. Knock sensor failure = no timing adjustment leading to poor power and poor fuel economy.

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Old 06-25-2014, 08:26 PM   #9
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Default Re: Poor exelaration at surtin speeds.

Ok just to update Ive replaced the o2 sensor and iac. I will have to check the knock sensor. I also have two UN identified wires that are hanging under the car. Ones dark the other is white. would that be a knock sensor wire set. and yes I can confirm that putting it down into 3 helps. but I cant take my foot of the peddle other wise I lose speed. Last thing I turn on the switch that countrols speed shifting down on the shifter and its much better. but still hesatates untell i get my foot half way down on the peddle. then its jets off.
If you want I took some pictures of it all.

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Old 06-25-2014, 08:32 PM   #10
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Default Re: Poor exelaration at surtin speeds.

Also wehn I get the rpms above 4000 while driving then come to a complete stop it idles at 950rpms. but most the timme it idle at 850. not shure if that will help etc. ive got a vid ill see if i can get that posted to.

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Old 06-25-2014, 08:55 PM   #11
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Default Re: Poor exelaration at surtin speeds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkone View Post
... I also have two UN identified wires that are hanging under the car. Ones dark the other is white. ...

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Old 06-26-2014, 08:24 AM   #12
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Default Re: Poor exelaration at surtin speeds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkone View Post
I also have two UN identified wires that are hanging under the car. Ones dark the other is white..
Are they shooting craps and drinking beer?
Maybe the dark one was really white but got a tan? Could it have been peeling? If so, then it probably was red, initially, got burnt, and is now white.

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Old 06-26-2014, 08:45 AM   #13
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Default Re: Poor exelaration at surtin speeds.

This may help

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Old 06-26-2014, 11:24 AM   #14
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Default Re: Poor exelaration at surtin speeds.

Nice picture. Better if a little bigger.

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Old 06-29-2014, 10:55 AM   #15
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Default Re: Poor exelaration at surtin speeds.

Ok with a light under the car the wire are coming from a small amount of wires bundle in the plastic protector. And it's going up in the same direction as the map sensor and fuel rail Area. There quit long and from the picture given witch Was verry helpfull. From what I could see all the sensors had the correct wires going to them. I've looked over the wording diagram over and over again but like you said the wires have changed color with weather.

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Old 06-30-2014, 06:20 AM   #16
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Default Re: Poor exelaration at surtin speeds.

Ok so I am going to be less specific about the problem and just tell you like it is. simple and plain. I went back a reread what I originally posted and I even found it hard to understand, so I thought It would do me good to rewrite the problem.

At this point most of my problems are gone or am getting close. So basically am cruising along come to a hill or just adding more people to my car load will do it to but cruising along any time am at around 35mph or when it shifts at 35 MPH. I put my foot on the gas, instead of it picking up rpms and speeding up I get nothing and as i push further down on the gas I get a bog and some where at half open throttle the cars rpms shoot up drastically and I take of. but as soon as I let the peddle fall close to being fully closed it shoots back down into the bog. this is at any speed past 35mph untell in shifts down at 30mph. At speeds under it 30, it takes off when a press he gas but just about 5 seconds in it goes into a bog. I then can repeat letting of the gas and then depressing it down. I know my car has no MAF Sensor its all done by the ecu/pcm. but it dose have a map sensor. and am wondering if what ever the two wires go to have any thing to do with the Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor Or the Ignition Control Module. Do any sensor's link into the icm or do all sensors go back into the computer. What am curious to know is why I don't Have a check engine Light Or even any codes when I had it scanned. Witch also leads me to believe that there is something wrong with the PCM/ECU. The only time that it saves codes is when something is unplugged. Any Help Is IS Greatly Helpful.

Last edited by Darkone; 06-30-2014 at 06:27 AM..

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Old 06-30-2014, 09:12 AM   #17
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Default Re: Poor exelaration at surtin speeds.

Do you have any means of monitoring the engine in real time? A scanguage or bluetooth ODBII adapter so you can monitor sensor values?

If you have an android phone and bluetooth adapter, Torque (it's free) will tell you more than you'll ever need to know about your car's computer in real time. It sounds like it's reluctant to advance the timing, which, in my experience, becomes more evident as you go faster and the timing advance would become greater.

Regardless of my armchair diagnosis, I would make step one in any troubleshooting you're going to do to find what the devil those lose wires are and get them either replaced or run them where they're supposed to be.

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Old 07-01-2014, 05:15 AM   #18
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Default Re: Poor exelaration at surtin speeds.

Sadly no Ive looked in the past. I can get a OBDII Bluetooth Scanner for cheap but Will it run on a OBD1 PCM?. I didn't think they cross referenced. I also forgot to add when it goes into a bog at 30 after 5 seconds it kind of feels like it starts to pick up speed. Am going to look but I've only found one cheep obd1 scanner on ebay for 75$ and since am Shure I can get it for cheep some where like the obd2 Bluetooth scanners, I will keep looking. Still looking at the wiring diagram in my manual There are a few wires that are white and black. I think am just going to test currents and continuity at all the major connectors to the sensors and see if any have no power. It seems to be the only thing I can do. that and to test if the wires have power going to them any way.

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Old 07-01-2014, 08:43 AM   #19
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Default Re: Poor exelaration at surtin speeds.

I missed the 1995 in the initial post, I'm not well versed in dealing with ODB 1 computers. It appears that you can get a box that will flash the SES light to give you the trouble codes that are currently present for fairly cheap on Amazon but I don't know about live monitoring on ODB 1 PCMs.

Does it stumble or feel like it's missing at all when you first get on it?

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Old 07-07-2014, 07:52 AM   #20
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Default Re: Poor exelaration at surtin speeds.

Know that I think about it when on giving it has it dose some time stumble. Not much but it is there and watching the RPMs it not smooth. I've tracked down some what as to what the wire are by readings other posts on saturnfans. I balleive them to ether be part of the icm or my break power. As my breaks. I think the white wire is a ground wire for the icm,

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