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Old 03-20-2014, 07:10 PM   #1
skimmah11
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2009 VUE 2.4L
Default Where is the Neutral Safety Sw. on 09 Vue?

Hi, and thx for all the great info on the forum.

I have a no start no crank issue with my 09 Vue 4cyl 2wd. Battery good, starter good, relay and fuses good. So my next thought is neutral safety switch or ignition switch, right? or wrong? I'm new to this.

So I can't find anything on the location of the neutral safety switch on my model. Once I find it, how do I test?

Or do I need to be looking at something else.

Thanks.

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Old 03-21-2014, 10:00 AM   #2
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Default Re: Where is the Neutral Safety Sw. on 09 Vue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by skimmah11 View Post
Hi, and thx for all the great info on the forum.

I have a no start no crank issue with my 09 Vue 4cyl 2wd. Battery good, starter good, relay and fuses good. So my next thought is neutral safety switch or ignition switch, right? or wrong? I'm new to this.

So I can't find anything on the location of the neutral safety switch on my model. Once I find it, how do I test?

Or do I need to be looking at something else.

Thanks.
I don't have a 2009 Vue and am certainly glad I don't after looking at a few service manual extracts.

The engine crank (and start) system is not for faint of heart.

It appears a valuable clue is to listen for "click" from starter solenoid.

I've attached a couple of crank related extracts - as well as diagrams for the crank and starting system.

I've also added instructions to replace the PNP switch (assuming you have 4T45-E auto trans) but can't add procedures to adjust the switch as the file is too large.

Send a PM (left click on my screen name) if you need more data - including steps to adjust the PNP.

Starter Solenoid Does Not Click

When the ignition switch is placed in the start position, a discrete signal is supplied to the body control module (BCM) notifying it that the ignition is in the start position. The BCM sends a serial data message to the engine control module (ECM) that crank has been requested. The ECM then verifies that the automatic transmission is in Park or Neutral, and that the immobilizer is not disabling engine starting. If conditions are acceptable for cranking, then the ECM supplies 12 V to the control circuit of the STRTR relay. When this occurs, battery voltage is supplied through the switch of the STRTR relay to terminal A X1 of the starter solenoid, and the engine cranks.


Starter Solenoid Clicks, Engine Does Not Crank

When the ignition switch is placed in the START position, a discrete signal is supplied to the body control module (BCM) notifying it that the ignition is in the START position. The BCM then sends a message to the engine control module (ECM) that crank has been requested. The ECM then verifies that the transmission is in Park or Neutral. If it is, the ECM then supplies 12 volts to the control circuit of the STARTER relay. When this occurs, battery voltage is supplied through the switch of the STARTER relay to S terminal of the starter solenoid.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg screen_2014-03-21 09.36.38.jpg (80.4 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg screen_2014-03-21 09.45.07.jpg (176.0 KB, 15 views)
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 09 Vue - PNP Switch R2.pdf (120.1 KB, 28 views)

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Old 03-21-2014, 04:52 PM   #3
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Default Re: Where is the Neutral Safety Sw. on 09 Vue?

Thank you for the response!

It certainly does seem more complicated than I originally thought. But if my relay is clicking when I turn the key, doesn't that mean that everything on the BCM, ECM, and PNP side is working? Because power must be getting to the relay from the ECM, right/wrong?

I tested my relays under the hood and in the car with a multimeter and they are good. I have no click at starter solenoid, no power at the S terminal of solenoid when turning the key. So...

1. Does this mean my problem is between the fuse box and the starter solenoid?

2. Is it reasonable to assume there could be a significant drop in voltage along the way because of a faulty BCM, ECM, or PNP? Which would click the relay but not pass on any power thereafter?

3. Can I rule out my ignition switch?

Thanks again for your help so far.

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Old 03-21-2014, 05:53 PM   #4
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Default Re: Where is the Neutral Safety Sw. on 09 Vue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by skimmah11 View Post
Thank you for the response!

It certainly does seem more complicated than I originally thought. But if my relay is clicking when I turn the key, doesn't that mean that everything on the BCM, ECM, and PNP side is working? Because power must be getting to the relay from the ECM, right/wrong?

I tested my relays under the hood and in the car with a multimeter and they are good. I have no click at starter solenoid, no power at the S terminal of solenoid when turning the key. So...

1. Does this mean my problem is between the fuse box and the starter solenoid?

2. Is it reasonable to assume there could be a significant drop in voltage along the way because of a faulty BCM, ECM, or PNP? Which would click the relay but not pass on any power thereafter?

3. Can I rule out my ignition switch?

Thanks again for your help so far.
Do you hear a relay click when you turn key (not necessarily starter solenoid)?

It appears several items have a vote before the ECM routes START voltage to starter motor. I'm going to pose a few educated guesses after checking diagrams:

1. There is a 2 amp IGN SW fuse in I/P fuse block to provide power to ignition switch when key is to ON (RUN) or START.

2. If fuse is OK - and ignition switch is OK - the 12 volts is sent to BCM.

3. At same time - when key is turned to START - on parallel path - ignition switch sends immobilizer signal to BCM (assuming correct key rotated ignition cylinder).

4. If BCM receives both the START voltage - and confirms IMMOBILIZER is satisfied - the START request is sent to ECM.

5. The ECM must have power from ECM/TCM 10 A fuse to operate correctly. If power is correct - once ECM receives START request - it must also check for a ground from PNP circuit (PARK or NEUTRAL) and confirmation GM LAN data buss is active*.

6. Once ECM confirms all step 5 prerequisites are met it should send START voltage to starter and will also latch PWR TRN relay to enable fuel, ignition, etc.

* GM LAN can be finicky - two known failure points are wet/damaged ABS wiring near rear axle and a DEAD internal On-Star battery ... either could "open" the data-bus and inhibit engine cranking.

Repost if you need data for those circuits.

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Last edited by far2grumpy; 03-21-2014 at 06:01 PM..

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Old 03-21-2014, 07:47 PM   #5
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Default Re: Where is the Neutral Safety Sw. on 09 Vue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by skimmah11 View Post
Hi, and thx for all the great info on the forum.

I have a no start no crank issue with my 09 Vue 4cyl 2wd. Battery good, starter good, relay and fuses good. So my next thought is neutral safety switch or ignition switch, right? or wrong? I'm new to this.

So I can't find anything on the location of the neutral safety switch on my model. Once I find it, how do I test?

Or do I need to be looking at something else.

Thanks.

Try pushing the gear shift lever forward while trying to start car. If no start, shift to neutral (level ground......) and try to start. You may also wiggle gear shift lever while in neutral while trying to start. This will often reveal a bad or misadjusted neutral safety switch, which often fails in the park position.

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Old 03-21-2014, 08:41 PM   #6
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Default Re: Where is the Neutral Safety Sw. on 09 Vue?

There is no sound at starter. but I can us a jumper wire to make the starter crank the car. the starter relay clicks though.

Checked all the fuses mentions and are ok. tried starting in every gear, with wiggles, and nothing.

Based on the 2nd schematic posted above it looks like if all starting conditions are met the ecm will send a signal to the starter relay. The relay will click when power passes to it. So if the relay is clicking the ignitinon sw, BCM, ECM, PNP are all passing power along as they should be, meaning they are all working, right?

It makes me think that there must be a problem between the fuse box and the s terminal on the starter solenoid.

Is there a way to check the voltage coming to, and going out of, the starter relay?

Is there anything else I should be checking?

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Old 03-21-2014, 08:56 PM   #7
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Default Re: Where is the Neutral Safety Sw. on 09 Vue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by skimmah11 View Post
There is no sound at starter. but I can us a jumper wire to make the starter crank the car. the starter relay clicks though.

Checked all the fuses mentions and are ok. tried starting in every gear, with wiggles, and nothing.

Based on the 2nd schematic posted above it looks like if all starting conditions are met the ecm will send a signal to the starter relay. The relay will click when power passes to it. So if the relay is clicking the ignitinon sw, BCM, ECM, PNP are all passing power along as they should be, meaning they are all working, right?

It makes me think that there must be a problem between the fuse box and the s terminal on the starter solenoid.

Is there a way to check the voltage coming to, and going out of, the starter relay?

Is there anything else I should be checking?
Hold on ... are you saying starter relay clicks when key's turned to start?

If yes ... swap the relay with any other of same part number and check results.

A bad 20A STARTER fuse would also keep motor from running.

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Old 03-22-2014, 07:05 PM   #8
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Default Re: Where is the Neutral Safety Sw. on 09 Vue?

My mistake. I heard a click in the fuse box when turning the key and naively assumed that was the starter relay clicking. upon further inspection it way the run relay, no power is coming to the str relay. I'm still new to this so I'm learning along the way.

I read the other threads about the abs wiring, mine looks good. no water or corrosion.

All fuses look ok.

Did you have more info on the Onstar back up battery issue?

Is there any specific troubleshooting I can do to eliminate the Onstar, Ignition Switch, ECM...

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Old 03-22-2014, 10:22 PM   #9
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Default Re: Where is the Neutral Safety Sw. on 09 Vue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by skimmah11 View Post
Did you have more info on the Onstar back up battery issue?

Is there any specific troubleshooting I can do to eliminate the Onstar, Ignition Switch, ECM...
You might try attaching a code reader to capture any stored codes. If the LAN isn't working a code should be set for that.

I'd troubleshoot a problem like this with code reader, wiring diagrams, test light and multimeter.

It appears you have OnStar ... I don't have info in front of me now but I've read at least one post claiming a bad comm interface module battery will interrupt the data-bus which affects ECM.

I'll try to find more data tomorrow (Sunday).

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Old 03-23-2014, 01:33 AM   #10
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Default Re: Where is the Neutral Safety Sw. on 09 Vue?

Thanks, i appreciate it. trying my best to study up on my end in the mean time.

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Old 03-23-2014, 11:48 AM   #11
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Default Re: Where is the Neutral Safety Sw. on 09 Vue?

would it be possable for you to take a test light(preferably a dvom{multimeter}) between batt neg termanal and the small purple wire to the starter solinoid and get a reading in volts or weather the test light lights?

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Old 03-23-2014, 12:11 PM   #12
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Default Re: Where is the Neutral Safety Sw. on 09 Vue?

hi
i have a problem similar some time ago
previous night working good in the morning dont start no crank no starter sound, lights working, radio working just no start, is similar to your case?

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Old 03-23-2014, 12:19 PM   #13
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Default Re: Where is the Neutral Safety Sw. on 09 Vue?

Satlite440 ... I'm glad you're on-board and offering assistance ... my "book-knowledge" is already used up.

I recall a post about OnStar battery affecting engine crank (no starter rotation) but have yet to find.

There is no-crank information in this post - OnStar battery did not fix:

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=193137

I've posted GM info regarding some of codes that might be stored if GMLAN is not working and also a network diagram for GMLAN.

In theory any device in data-bus loop could keep BCM from sending engine crank request to ECM.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg X408 - No Crank.jpg (130.0 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg GMLAN.jpg (96.1 KB, 16 views)

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Old 03-23-2014, 12:20 PM   #14
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Default Re: Where is the Neutral Safety Sw. on 09 Vue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by javie View Post
hi
i have a problem similar some time ago
previous night working good in the morning dont start no crank no starter sound, lights working, radio working just no start, is similar to your case?
I put link to your post in earlier post - do you recall the solution to your problem?

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Old 03-23-2014, 12:22 PM   #15
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Default Re: Where is the Neutral Safety Sw. on 09 Vue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by javie View Post
hi
i have a problem similar some time ago
previous night working good in the morning dont start no crank no starter sound, lights working, radio working just no start, is similar to your case?
in the shop they noted 2 problems 1 the fuse box was not sending signal so was faulty and 2 after trying many times with jumper cables the ecm was damaged so need a new one i get them form ebay, fuse box 90 and ecm 55, shop 350 for the repair and programing the ecm, so check fuse box and check ecm, i change the on star battery too but was not needed.and my vue 08 is ok since then,

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Old 03-23-2014, 09:39 PM   #16
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Default Re: Where is the Neutral Safety Sw. on 09 Vue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by skimmah11 View Post
Thanks, i appreciate it. trying my best to study up on my end in the mean time.
Found another doc for you to look at ... let me know if any of referenced items would be helpful.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 09 Vue - 2.4 No Crank.pdf (22.5 KB, 24 views)

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Old 03-24-2014, 07:14 PM   #17
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Default Re: Where is the Neutral Safety Sw. on 09 Vue?

A friend with a code reader hooked it up and I got:

P0601

P1682

Does this mean I need to replace my ignition switch? Or could it be the ECM still?

satlite440: No voltage at purple wire when turning key.

javie: If I use a jumper wire on the str relay in 78/30 position the starter cranks the engine. So I think that means the signal from my fuse box to starter are ok. My symptoms are just like yours were, the only other post I found with same issues also had poor connections in fuse box. Hopefully my ECM isn't damaged.

far2grumpy: Thanks man for all the time and amazing information. I'm looking through the NoCrank.pdf now. Very informative.

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Old 03-24-2014, 11:11 PM   #18
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Default Re: Where is the Neutral Safety Sw. on 09 Vue?

xTooltipElement
Service Information


2009 Saturn VUE - FWD | VUE, VUE Hybrid VIN L, Captiva Sport Service Manual | Document ID: 2103150
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DTC P1682
Diagnostic Instructions•Perform the Diagnostic System Check - Vehicle prior to using this diagnostic procedure.
•Review Strategy Based Diagnosis for an overview of the diagnostic approach.
•Diagnostic Procedure Instructions provides an overview of each of the diagnostic category.
DTC DescriptorDTC P1682
Ignition 1 Switch Circuit 2

Diagnostic Fault InformationCircuit
Short to Ground
Open/High Resistance
Short to Voltage
Signal Performance

Ignition 1 Voltage (Powertrain Relay)
P0689, P1682, P2176
P0689, P1516, P1682, P2101
P0690


Ignition 1 Voltage (RUN/CRNK Relay)

P1682
P0575, P0650



Typical Scan Tool DataEC Ignition Relay Feedback Circuit
Short to Ground
Open
Short to Voltage

Operating Conditions: Ignition ON Engine OFF. Powertrain Relay commanded ON

Ignition 1 Voltage
0 volts
0 volts
12 volts


Ignition 1 Signal Circuit
Short to Ground
Open
Short to Voltage

Operating Conditions: Ignition ON Engine OFF. RUN/CRNK Relay commanded ON

Ignition 1 Voltage
0 volts
0 volts
12 volts


Circuit/System DescriptionThere are two ignition 1 voltage circuits supplied to the engine control module (ECM). The first ignition 1 voltage circuit is provided by the powertrain relay, through a fuse. This ignition 1 voltage circuit supplies power to all the internal ECM circuits associated with the throttle actuator control (TAC) operation. The RUN/CRNK relay provides the second ignition 1 voltage circuit to the ECM, through a fuse. This ignition 1 voltage provides power to other internal ECM circuits, except those associated with TAC operation. The ECM continuously monitors the voltage level difference between the two circuits.

Conditions for Running the DTC•The ignition is in the Unlock/Accessory, Run, or Crank position.
•System voltage is more than 5.23 volts.
•Powertrain relay is commanded ON
•DTC P1682 runs continuously when the above conditions are met.
Conditions for Setting the DTCThe ignition 1 voltage of the RUN/CRNK relay is more than 3 volts different than the ignition 1 voltage of the powertrain relay for more than 2 seconds.

Action Taken When the DTC Sets•DTC P1682 is a Type A DTC.
•Engine may operate in a reduced engine power mode.
Conditions for Clearing the DTCDTC P1682 is a Type A DTC.

Diagnostic AidsThis test procedure requires that the vehicle battery has passed a load test and is completely charged. Refer to Battery Inspection/Test.

Reference InformationSchematic Reference
•Engine Controls Schematics
•Power Distribution Schematics
Connector End View Reference
Component Connector End Views

Electrical Information Reference
•Circuit Testing
•Connector Repairs
•Testing for Intermittent Conditions and Poor Connections
•Wiring Repairs
DTC Type Reference
Powertrain Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) Type Definitions

Scan Tool Reference
Control Module References for scan tool information

Circuit/System Verification 1. If DTCs P0685, P0690, or B1380 are set, diagnose those DTCs first.
 2. Ignition ON, engine OFF, observe the Ignition 1 Voltage Signal, and the EC Ignition Relay Feedback Signal parameters, on the scan tool. Both parameter values should display no more than 3 volts difference, between the two parameters.
 3. Ignition OFF, observe the Ignition 1 Voltage Signal parameter on the scan tool. The parameter value should be 0 volts, before the ECM powers down.
Circuit/System Testing 1. Ignition OFF, disconnect the Powertrain Relay.
 2. Ignition ON, verify that a test lamp does not illuminate between the powertrain relay controlled output circuit terminal and ground.
⇒ If the test lamp illuminates, test the powertrain relay controlled output circuit for a short to voltage.
 3. Ignition OFF, verify that a test lamp illuminates between the powertrain relay coil voltage supply circuit terminal and ground.
⇒ If the test lamp does not illuminate, test the powertrain relay coil voltage supply circuit for a short to ground or an open/high resistance.
 4. Verify that a test lamp illuminates between the powertrain relay switch voltage supply circuit terminal and ground.
⇒ If the test lamp does not illuminate, test the powertrain relay switch voltage supply circuit for an open/high resistance.
 5. Disconnect the ECM.
 6. Ignition ON, verify that a test lamp illuminates between ECM connector terminal 19 X1 and ground.
⇒ If the test lamp does not illuminate, test the RUN/CRNK Relay controlled output circuit for a short to ground or open/high resistance. If the circuit tests normal and its fuse is open, replace the ECM.
 7. Ignition OFF, connect the harness connector at the ECM.
 8. Ignition ON, connect a 3A fused jumper wire between the powertrain relay voltage supply circuit terminal and the powertrain relay controlled output circuit terminal. Verify the EC Ignition Relay Feedback parameter indicates battery positive voltage.
⇒ If not the specified value, test the powertrain relay controlled output circuit for a short to ground or an open/high resistance. If the circuit tests normal and its fuse is open, replace the ECM.
 9. If all circuits test normal, replace the Powertrain Relay.
Repair InstructionsPerform the Diagnostic Repair Verification after completing the diagnostic procedure.

•Relay Replacement
•Control Module References for ECM replacement, setup, and programming
© 2014 General Motors. All rights reserved.

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Old 03-24-2014, 11:32 PM   #19
satlite440
Senior Member
satlite440 is a splendid one to beholdsatlite440 is a splendid one to beholdsatlite440 is a splendid one to beholdsatlite440 is a splendid one to beholdsatlite440 is a splendid one to beholdsatlite440 is a splendid one to beholdsatlite440 is a splendid one to beholdsatlite440 is a splendid one to behold
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: kent wa
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2001 SL2
Default Re: Where is the Neutral Safety Sw. on 09 Vue?

so a few back ground questions 1st did you have a bad/dead/weak batt issue in the last few weeks??? anyone jump it but you?? any batt charger use to charge a dead/weak batt and the key was on evan momentarly and key was turned off????...reson i ask is the po601 is a loss of read only memory like fuel enable hand shake via lan comm lines.. was vehical key on while doing something and batt went weak/dead was jumped was ok for awhile 2-3 days and now is where we are???. the loss of rom and the voltage differance in the ign 1 voltage the run/crank relay is in the i/p fuse block..















sxTooltipElement
Service Information


2009 Saturn VUE - FWD | VUE, VUE Hybrid VIN L, Captiva Sport Service Manual | Document ID: 1971239
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DTC P0601, P0602, P0603, P0604, P0606, P0607, P060D, P062F, or P2610 (ECM)
Diagnostic Instructions•Perform the Diagnostic System Check - Vehicle prior to using this diagnostic procedure.
•Review Strategy Based Diagnosis for an overview of the diagnostic approach.
•Diagnostic Procedure Instructions provides an overview of each of the diagnostic category.
DTC DescriptorsDTC P0601
Control Module Read Only Memory (ROM)

DTC P0602
Control Module Not Programmed

DTC P0603
Control Module Long Term Memory Reset

DTC P0604
Control Module Random Access Memory (RAM)

DTC P0606
Control Module Internal Performance

DTC P0607
Control Module Performance

DTC P060D
Control Module Accelerator Pedal Position (APP) System Performance

DTC P062F
Control Module Long Term Memory Performance

DTC P2610
Control Module Ignition Off Timer Performance

Circuit/System DescriptionThis diagnostic applies to internal microprocessor integrity conditions within the engine control module (ECM) and the throttle actuator control (TAC) system. This diagnostic also addresses if the ECM is not programmed.

The ECM monitors its ability to read and write to the memory. It also monitors a timing function. The ECM and the TAC processors are used to monitor the TAC system data. Both processors monitor the other processors data to verify that the indicated APP calculation is correct. The ECM performs an intrusive test in order to confirm that the APP signals are not shorted together. The ECM accomplishes this by pulling the APP sensor 2 low momentarily and looking for sensor 1 to also be pulled low.

Conditions for Running the DTCsP0601
•The ignition switch is in Run or Crank.
•DTC P0601 runs continuously when the above condition is met.
P0602
•The ignition switch is in Run or Crank.
•DTC P0602 runs once per ignition cycle.
P0603
•The ignition switch is in Run or Crank.
•DTC P0603 runs once per ignition cycle.
P0604
•The ignition switch is in Run or Crank.
•DTC P0604 runs continuously when the above condition is met.
P0606
•The ignition switch is in the Unlock/Accessory, Run, or Crank positions.
•The system voltage is more than 5.23 volts.
•DTC P0606 runs continuously when the above conditions are met.
P0607
•The ignition switch is in Unlock, Accessory, Run or Crank.
•The system voltage is more than 5.23 volts.
•DTCs P0601, P0602, P0603, P0604, P0606, P062F, P0641, P0651, P2610 are not set
•DTC P0607 runs continuously when the above conditions are met.
P060D
•DTC P0606 is not set.
•The ignition switch is in the Unlock, Accessory, Run, or Crank position.
•The system voltage is more than 5.23 volts.
•DTC P060D runs continuously when the above conditions are met.
P062F
•The ignition is ON.
•DTC P062F runs once per ignition cycle.
P2610
•The ECM is powered down.
•The intake air temperature is between −40 to +125°C (−40 to +257°F).
•DTC P2610 runs once per ignition cycle.
Conditions for Setting the DTCsThe ECM detects an internal failure or incomplete programming for more than 10 seconds.

Actions Taken When the DTC Sets•DTCs P0601, P0602, P0603, P0604, P0606, P060D, and P062F are Type A DTCs.
•DTC P0607 is a Type C DTC.
•DTC P2610 is a Type B DTC.
Conditions for Clearing the MIL/DTC•DTCs P0601, P0602, P0603, P0604, P0606, P060D, and P062F are Type A DTCs.
•DTC P0607 is a Type C DTC.
•DTC P2610 is a Type B DTC.
Reference InformationSchematic Reference
Engine Controls Schematics

Connector End View Reference
Component Connector End Views

Electrical Information Reference
•Circuit Testing
•Connector Repairs
•Testing for Intermittent Conditions and Poor Connections
•Wiring Repairs
DTC Type Reference
Powertrain Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) Type Definitions

Scan Tool Reference
Control Module References for scan tool information

Circuit/System Testing for the DTC 1. Observe the DTCs with the scan tool.
⇒ If DTC P0602 is set, attempt to program the ECM before replacing the ECM. Refer to Control Module References for ECM replacement, setup, and programming .
⇒ If DTC P0602 resets, replace the ECM.
 2. Test the voltage and ground inputs to the ECM for the following:
◦A short
◦An open
◦High resistance
⇒ If all circuits test normal, replace the ECM.
Repair InstructionsPerform the Diagnostic Repair Verification after completing the diagnostic procedure.

Control Module References for ECM replacement, programming and setup
© 2014 General Motors. All rights reserved. ee below????
Attached Images
File Type: gif ecm.gif (38.0 KB, 11 views)
File Type: gif ecm2.gif (43.3 KB, 9 views)

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Old 03-24-2014, 11:34 PM   #20
satlite440
Senior Member
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: kent wa
Posts: 1,036

2001 SL2
Default Re: Where is the Neutral Safety Sw. on 09 Vue?

xTooltipElement
Service Information


2009 Saturn VUE - FWD | VUE, VUE Hybrid VIN L, Captiva Sport Service Manual | Engine | Engine Electrical | Diagnostic Information and Procedures | Document ID: 1886022
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Starter Solenoid Does Not Click
Diagnostic Instructions•Perform the Diagnostic System Check - Vehicle prior to using this diagnostic procedure.
•Review Strategy Based Diagnosis for an overview of the diagnostic approach.
•Diagnostic Procedure Instructions provides an overview of each diagnostic category.
Diagnostic Fault InformationCircuit
Short to Ground
Open/High Resistance
Short to Voltage
Signal Performance

B+
1
1



Park Neutral Signal
2
1
1


STRTR Relay Control
1
1
3


Starter Control
1
1
3


Ground

1



1. No crank

2. Cranks in any gear

3. Cranks all the time


Circuit/System DescriptionWhen the ignition switch is placed in the start position, a discrete signal is supplied to the body control module (BCM) notifying it that the ignition is in the start position. The BCM sends a serial data message to the engine control module (ECM) that crank has been requested. The ECM then verifies that the automatic transmission is in Park or Neutral, and that the immobilizer is not disabling engine starting. If conditions are acceptable for cranking, then the ECM supplies 12 V to the control circuit of the STRTR relay. When this occurs, battery voltage is supplied through the switch of the STRTR relay to terminal A X1 of the starter solenoid, and the engine cranks.

Reference InformationSchematic Reference
Starting and Charging Schematics

Connector End View Reference
Component Connector End Views

Description and Operation
Starting System Description and Operation

Electrical Information Reference
•Circuit Testing
•Connector Repairs
•Testing for Intermittent Conditions and Poor Connections
•Wiring Repairs
Scan Tool Reference
Control Module References for scan tool information

Circuit/System Verification 1. Ignition ON, transmission in Park. Observe the scan tool ECM PNP Switch parameter. The parameter should be Park/Neutral.
⇒ If not the specified value, refer to PNP Switch Circuit Malfunction.
 2. Turn the ignition switch to the start position. The starter solenoid should engage and the engine should crank.
⇒ If the solenoid does not engage, refer to STRTR Relay Circuit Malfunction.
⇒ If the solenoid engages but the engine does not crank, refer to Starter Solenoid Clicks, Engine Does Not Crank.
 3. Ignition ON, observe the scan tool ECM Crankshaft Position Sensor Active Counter is not incrementing.
⇒ If the Crankshaft Position Sensor Active Counter is incrementing, replace the Crankshaft Position Sensor.
Circuit/System TestingPNP Switch Circuit Malfunction – 4T45-E (ME7/MN5)
 1. Inspect the shift control cable for proper adjustment. Refer to Shift Control Cable Adjustment.
 2. Ignition OFF, disconnect the harness connector at the PNP switch.
 3. Ignition OFF and scan tool disconnected, open and close the driver door, and wait 30 seconds. Test for less than 5 Ω between the following switch ground circuit terminals and ground:
◦Terminal 1 X1 (ME7)
◦Terminal 11 X1 (MN5)
⇒ If greater than the specified range, test the ground circuit for an open/high resistance.
 4. Ignition ON, switch disconnected, verify that the scan tool ECM PNP Switch parameter is In Gear.
⇒ If not the specified value, test the signal circuit terminal 7 X1 (MN5) or terminal 12 X1 (ME7) for a short to ground. If the circuit tests normal, replace the ECM.
 5. Install a 3 A fused jumper wire between the ground circuit and the signal circuit. Verify that the scan tool PNP Switch parameter is Park/Neutral.
⇒ If not the specified value, test the signal circuit for a short to voltage or an open/high resistance. If the circuit tests normal, replace the ECM.
 6. If all circuits test normal, test or replace the PNP switch.
PNP Switch Circuit Malfunction – 6T70 (MH2/MH4)
 1. Inspect the range selector lever cable for proper adjustment. Refer to Range Selector Lever Cable Adjustment.
 2. Ignition OFF, disconnect the inline 20-way harness connector at the transmission.
 3. Ignition ON, test for greater than 5 V on the park/neutral signal circuit terminal 20.
⇒ If less than the specified range, test the signal circuit for a short to ground or an open/high resistance. If the circuit tests normal, replace the ECM.
 4. Ignition OFF, remove the control valve body cover. Refer to Control Valve Body Cover Replacement.
 5. Connect the transmission inline 20-way connector, with the cover removed.
 6. Disconnect the internal mode switch connector at the control solenoid valve assembly.
 7. Ignition ON, verify that the scan tool ECM PNP Switch parameter is In Gear.
⇒ If not the specified value, test the signal circuit for a short to ground. If the circuit tests normal, replace the ECM.
 8. Connect a 3 A fused jumper wire between the park/neutral signal terminal F at the control solenoid valve assembly and ground. The scan tool ECM PNP Switch parameter should be Park/Neutral.
⇒ If not the specified value, test the signal circuit for a short to voltage or an open/high resistance. If the circuit tests normal, replace the ECM.
 9. If all circuits test normal, test or replace the internal mode switch.
STRTR Relay Circuit Malfunction
 1. Ignition OFF, disconnect the STRTR relay.
 2. Ignition OFF and scan tool disconnected, open and close the driver door, and wait 30 seconds. Test for less than 5 Ω between the ground circuit terminal 85 and ground.
⇒ If greater than the specified range, test the ground circuit for an open/high resistance.
 3. Ignition ON, verify that a test lamp illuminates between the B+ circuit terminal 30 and ground.
⇒ If the test lamp does not illuminate, test the B+ circuit for a short to ground or an open/high resistance. If the circuit tests normal and the STARTER fuse is open, test the starter control circuit terminal 87 for a short to ground.
 4. Ignition OFF and transmission in park, connect a 30 A fused jumper wire between the B+ circuit terminal 30 and the control circuit terminal 87. The engine should begin cranking.
⇒ If the engine does not crank, test the control circuit for a short to ground or an open/high resistance. If the circuit tests normal, test or replace the starter.
 5. Connect a test lamp between the ground circuit terminal 85 and the control circuit terminal 86.
 6. Ignition ON and transmission in park, cycle the ignition switch between OFF and START. The test lamp should turn ON and OFF when changing between the commanded states.
⇒ If the test lamp is always ON, test the relay control circuit terminal 86 for a short to voltage. If the circuit tests normal, replace the ECM.
⇒ If the test lamp is always OFF, test the relay control circuit terminal 86 for a short to ground or an open/high resistance. If the circuit tests normal, replace the ECM.
 7. If all circuits test normal, test or replace the STRTR relay.
Component TestingRelay Test
 1. Ignition OFF, disconnect the STRTR relay.
 2. Test for 60–180 Ω between terminals 85 and 86.
⇒ If not within the specified range, replace the relay.
 3. Test for infinite resistance between the following terminals:
◦30 and 86
◦30 and 87
◦30 and 85
◦85 and 87
⇒ If not the specified value, replace the relay.
 4. Install a 20 A fused jumper wire between relay terminal 85 and 12 V. Install a jumper wire between relay terminal 86 and ground. Test for less than 2 Ω between terminals 30 and 87.
⇒ If greater than specified range, replace the relay.
Repair InstructionsPerform the Diagnostic Repair Verification after completing the diagnostic procedure.

•Relay Replacement
•Park/Neutral Position Switch Replacement for the 4T45-E transmission
•Manual Shift Detent Lever with Shaft Position Switch Assembly and Park Pawl Actuator Removal for the 6T70 and 6T75 transmissions
•Starter Replacement
•Crankshaft Position Sensor Replacement for the 2.2L or 2.4L engine
•Crankshaft Position Sensor Replacement for the 2.8L, 3.0L, 3.2L or 3.6L engines
•Crankshaft Position Sensor Replacement for the 3.5L engine
•Control Module References for ECM replacement, setup, and programming.
© 2014 General Motors. All rights reserved.

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