GM being investigated for a steering recall for the cobalt that wasn't for the ion

[snakes]

I just have to say its about time that this is being researched and investigated . I hope they do recall the steering issue on the ions ! Other then the past letter that was sent that they would repair only if there was an issue. I guess it took the ignition switch investigation/recall to look at the ion issues. Interesting to see how this pans out. But can't get too excited just yet.

[Charlie]

Let's hope they get to the bottom of this soon:

http://www.mlive.com/auto/index.ssf/...ing_satur.html

Thanks for sharing,
Charlie

[goaliemo]

theyre also looking into HHRs and Pontiac g5 I believe. Ive had mine replaced twice. its about time!

[Charlie]

I should also add that if anyone is looking for more information on the recent Saturn and General Motors recalls, the GMBeat Saturn page has the latest news and is constantly being updated.

http://www.gmbeat.com/news?search=Saturn

Be safe,
Charlie

[kaviation]

So why not 03's? Is there a difference in part numbers or something? I think they should issue a recall on the intermediate shaft. It rusted so bad that my steering got so stiff that it wouldn't self center after making a turn! Kinda dangerous if you are not ready for it! I lubed it but there are many people out there that would have no clue what to do!

I called and made a complaint about 5 years ago, don't know if it got anywhere though.

[kaviation]

If you haven't heard already....

Maybe an example of what's to come for GM and anyone else that "hides" known defects!

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/20/bu...uiry.html?_r=0

[kaviation]

Here are my biggest safety concerns with my car that I have experienced...

Throttle stuck 3/4 on (pedal stuck) I almost took out the car in front of me, but was quick enough to throw it in neutral (standard tranny) I lubed the cable in the engine bay where it goes through the grommet and its been fine after that.

Intermediate shaft/steering got real stiff all of a sudden, again over shot a turn i made because of this and really had to force the wheel back to center. I have to spray lube the universal twice a year (I should replace it) to keep it free.

Wiper transmission arm assy broke on me while I was driving in winter while it was snowing/wet at night in heavy traffic! Windshield was already defrosted, already 35 minutes into my drive, had to pull off the road QUICK!

The ignition switch problem has only plagued me 6 or 7 times and it had been the "no start" issue every time, but if my car did shut off while I was driving I probably would be taken by suprise, obviously you lose power brakes/steering, but I would imagine you would notice your whole dash light up (which may scare or at least take your attention away from the road momentarily) you may not realize you have lost these power acc's until its too late to react!

Short answer, Since GM has known about this defect for years, then by all means fine away, but wether its a fine or jail time It will not bring back anyone that has had died from this, and unless the money goes to the victims families whats the point of the fining? And what about the manufactures of these parts! Are they ever held liable? Cars are built on an assy. line with numerous parts from different vendors.

[col_dude190]

Originally Posted by kaviation

Short answer, Since GM has known about this defect for years, then by all means fine away, but wether its a fine or jail time It will not bring back anyone that has had died from this, and unless the money goes to the victims families whats the point of the fining? And what about the manufactures of these parts! Are they ever held liable? Cars are built on an assy. line with numerous parts from different vendors.

If GM could prove that any of their parts manufacturers are to blame for these issues, I'm sure they would be more than happy to hang them out to dry. However, most of these parts manufacturers are building parts to the exact specifications that are given to them by GM. They are simply accepting contracts to take raw materials (plastic, metal, etc.) and build parts to meet GM's designs. Most of these manufacturers are held to extremely high standards by large companies like GM to make parts as cheaply as possible (lowest cost plastic, grease, circuit boards, etc.) so that GM can make their required margins on completed vehicles.

At the end of the day, the parts manufacturers are trying to please their customers, in this case GM and other auto manufacturers. It is not up to the parts manufacturers to judge the designs of their customers (GM/Automakers). They are simply responsible for doing a job and meeting the needs of the automaker, even when that means manufacturing a cheap part, because that is what they are being asked to manufacture.

The blame for these issues falls squarely with GM.

[Citation84]

NHTSA claims it's still looking into the Saturn ION electronic power steering issue because the same part used in 'different' vehicles, NHTSA has to take into account it's wheelbase, tires etc. [As reported via The Car Connection in a link to Automotive News]. Is it any wonder there is also an investigation as to why that organization's effectiveness is being questioned as well ? They're the same car essentially. Not like using the same unit in a Tahoe as a Cobalt. What nonsense. Why couldn't they say the same garbage about the G5?

The ION shared the same "improvements" to the Delta platform as the Cobalt got when it was introduced for 05. The differences would have little to do with the power steering unit going bad because it was used between the two vehicles

What no one seems to have mentioned [and I have been following many different sources and their comments on this as I own an 05 ION] is the sizable cost to consumers in the replacement of batteries, starters, switches, alternators, sensors, modules BCMs and whatever in a quest by [not by unskilled mechanics, just unknowing ones and non-GM] service people to "fix" the problem.

I can't blame them, as I have heard people relate they got the "I've never seen that before" response when presented with the ignition switch problem by Saturn/GM techs, when it has long been an issue on the cars in question.

5 switches on my 05 ION in 60,000 miles. Everyone of them done by Saturn or GM/SASP techs. The last one lasted less than 3000 miles. I don't think I got one of the post 08 ones but just another POS 03-07 that's still in GM's parts pipeline.

"PWR STR" light has come on three times. Will get it in for that one but because it's way intermittent I expect an argument because it hasn't failed completely.

Even though I do have the "extended warranty" paperwork in the glovebox, it hasn't "failed" in any other situation than backing out of my driveway or a parking lot and was quickly corrected by restarting the car.

That said for those clamoring for a "class action" lawsuit: The lawyers get the bulk of the money. There will be no big payday for the purchasers of the cars [at best pennies on the dollar for out of pocket repairs ?] but a nice fat coupon for $500 off on the purchase of another GM vehicle. Any one want to jump on board ? Personally I wouldn't waste my time.

[Citation84]

Originally Posted by kaviation

So why not 03's? Is there a difference in part numbers or something? I think they should issue a recall on the intermediate shaft. It rusted so bad that my steering got so stiff that it wouldn't self center after making a turn! Kinda dangerous if you are not ready for it! I lubed it but there are many people out there that would have no clue what to do!

I called and made a complaint about 5 years ago, don't know if it got anywhere though.

Kaviation: a long known problem with the intermediate steering shaft. My 99 Cavalier with 20 some thousand miles had to have it's ISS replaced [bought new, never abused] after it started clunking. Others have similar problems on Impalas and other GM cars. It's been a long standing problem. The rust part I am unaware of, but the clunking, yes.

[2006 ion2]

Mine only acted up once, went to a Chevy dealership, they replaced it without even testing it.

[Citation84]

Originally Posted by 2006 ion2

Mine only acted up once, went to a Chevy dealership, they replaced it without even testing it.

That's good to know. Thanks, 2006. I have replaced the battery after nearly nine years [plus 1 for my ION along with engine and trans and polymer] so I figure I won't have any codes in the system, and have been dreading the experience. Hoping it will be a trouble free trip like one like you have had and can put all this stuff behind and have many trouble free years in the future.

My anger towards GM has me stalking the online ads for replacement vehicles but just don't want to go through the bother or the cost. The aggravation to rid myself of the switch problem isn't worth it.

And pretty much over reacting. Not to the extent of the hair on fire crowd commentary on the various news web sites, but PO'ed enough to want to just be rid of anything GM in my life.

But I have another car [from the 60s] with non-powered steering and know how much muscle it takes and have driven cars that will die out on you. Anyone having driven cars from the 70s with their crude emissions controls knows what to do if one stalls so am not in fear enough to stop driving and park it. I just want the thing fixed. It's been nine years already.

Not mercenary enough to take it to the SASP/Chevy dealer weeks before the parts are ready and stick them for a loaner car either, even though I am pretty disgusted with GM. That last may be permanent.

And anything I find has 100,000 miles on it. Minus the ignition switch, sway bar bushings and power steering "problem", there's been nothing but tires and oil changes and regular maintenance.

It will be interesting to see what comes of this additional investigation.

[2006 ion2]

They're supposed to replace the power steering motor with the mention of loss of power steering and "pwr str" message, no questions asked, short of any obvious alterations the owner has made that would compromise the system.

[kaviation]

Originally Posted by Citation84

That's good to know. Thanks, 2006. I have replaced the battery after nearly nine years [plus 1 for my ION along with engine and trans and polymer] so I figure I won't have any codes in the system, and have been dreading the experience. Hoping it will be a trouble free trip like one like you have had and can put all this stuff behind and have many trouble free years in the future.

My anger towards GM has me stalking the online ads for replacement vehicles but just don't want to go through the bother or the cost. The aggravation to rid myself of the switch problem isn't worth it.

And pretty much over reacting. Not to the extent of the hair on fire crowd commentary on the various news web sites, but PO'ed enough to want to just be rid of anything GM in my life.

But I have another car [from the 60s] with non-powered steering and know how much muscle it takes and have driven cars that will die out on you. Anyone having driven cars from the 70s with their crude emissions controls knows what to do if one stalls so am not in fear enough to stop driving and park it. I just want the thing fixed. It's been nine years already.

Not mercenary enough to take it to the SASP/Chevy dealer weeks before the parts are ready and stick them for a loaner car either, even though I am pretty disgusted with GM. That last may be permanent.

And anything I find has 100,000 miles on it. Minus the ignition switch, sway bar bushings and power steering "problem", there's been nothing but tires and oil changes and regular maintenance.

It will be interesting to see what comes of this additional investigation.

Funny, you share the same anger I have torwards any FORD product after the front wheel fell off while my wife was driving it due to the control arm seperating from the frame! If they would have bought the POS off of me instead of doing some half-assed repair on it, I may have bought another FORD, but I wouldn't do it because of the principal of the matter! I even spoke to an excutive at Ford, she was no help at all.

As far as my Ion, I'm not super pissed about the recalls, but wish they would have addressed the most common issues (the more important ones mind you) shared by all Ions regardless of recall status, I believe this would keep past or present GM owners, future owners! I also have a new ignition switch still sitting in the box, but have not replaced it due to the fact that I would rather wait the 10 min, for my car to start than to have the aggrevation of changing it like you, especially if its the same switch anyway!

I agree with you about the lawsuit as well, after all the "bills" are paid, theres not much left to the actual people who have already paid for these occurences!

[kaviation]

Originally Posted by Citation84

Kaviation: a long known problem with the intermediate steering shaft. My 99 Cavalier with 20 some thousand miles had to have it's ISS replaced [bought new, never abused] after it started clunking. Others have similar problems on Impalas and other GM cars. It's been a long standing problem. The rust part I am unaware of, but the clunking, yes.

Unfortunately since I live in the rust belt, It is common factor all over our cars here! The clunking doesn't bother me as much as the rust/siffness!

[Citation84]

Originally Posted by kaviation

Funny, you share the same anger I have torwards any FORD product after the front wheel fell off while my wife was driving it due to the control arm seperating from the frame! If they would have bought the POS off of me instead of doing some half-assed repair on it, I may have bought another FORD, but I wouldn't do it because of the principal of the matter! I even spoke to an excutive at Ford, she was no help at all.

As far as my Ion, I'm not super pissed about the recalls, but wish they would have addressed the most common issues (the more important ones mind you) shared by all Ions regardless of recall status, I believe this would keep past or present GM owners, future owners! I also have a new ignition switch still sitting in the box, but have not replaced it due to the fact that I would rather wait the 10 min, for my car to start than to have the aggrevation of changing it like you, especially if its the same switch anyway!

I agree with you about the lawsuit as well, after all the "bills" are paid, theres not much left to the actual people who have already paid for these occurences!

Well said. I think it's standard procedure at all of the manufacturers to stonewall the customer until he goes away. Not just a GM problem I guess.

This just in: went on an errand after work and got back in the car after I was finished. The key wouldn't even turn when I put it in to start the car. Eventually it broke loose. Latest switch has about 4000 miles and two years on it.

I am skeptical. How are we going to know if it's a re-engineered switch and not just another piece of garbage out of GM's supply chain ?

Anyway, will get this stuff fixed and hopefully that will be the end of it.

The thing that really galls me is that my standards for a car are not all that unreasonable. I expect it to start stop steer and go without trouble for as many years as I care to drive it. Fuel economy, reliable engine and trans, something I enjoy looking at when it's sitting in the driveway. Really basic stuff.

I don't care if it "surprise[s] and delight[s]" me even though JD Power has a metric for that somehow, nor do I think initial quality matters squat, I just want it to run when I turn the key and be dependable. I don't care if Consumer Reports or the other auto hacks like it.

Expecting a car to work as intended is not a lot to ask. GM hasn't met even that minimal standard.

As for Ford, there's nothing they or any of the other car makers are producing that really interests me much except, ironically the Sonic and the Sebring/200/Avenger [ a real hit or miss choice with questionable reliability but I can't help it. I've owned a 63 Valiant for many many years ].

[Citation84]

Originally Posted by kaviation

Unfortunately since I live in the rust belt, It is common factor all over our cars here! The clunking doesn't bother me as much as the rust/siffness!

I could probably live with the clunk myself if the ignition switch just worked.

[col_dude190]

Originally Posted by Citation84

This just in: went on an errand after work and got back in the car after I was finished. The key wouldn't even turn when I put it in to start the car. Eventually it broke loose. Latest switch has about 4000 miles and two years on it.

Citation, is your ION an automatic or a manual transmission car?

If it's an automatic, your issue sounds like it might be a failing BTSI that has gone undiagnosed for some time. The BTSI controls the park interlock on the ignition, and when it's failing it usually ends up causing the ignition to get sticky until it eventually won't turn at all. There is a weak switch in the BTSI (I know, another weak switch ) that eventually fails and can cause all sorts of weird ignition issues.

It makes me wonder if your BTSI has been failing for a bit now and it's been misdiagnosed as failing ignition switches. Might be worth a look.

See the thread below for replacement instructions:
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=183467

[Citation84]

Originally Posted by col_dude190

Citation, is your ION an automatic or a manual transmission car?

If it's an automatic, your issue sounds like it might be a failing BTSI that has gone undiagnosed for some time. The BTSI controls the park interlock on the ignition, and when it's failing it usually ends up causing the ignition to get sticky until it eventually won't turn at all. There is a weak switch in the BTSI (I know, another weak switch ) that eventually fails and can cause all sorts of weird ignition issues.

It makes me wonder if your BTSI has been failing for a bit now and it's been misdiagnosed as failing ignition switches. Might be worth a look.

See the thread below for replacement instructions:
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=183467

Hi Col_Dude, thanks.It;s an automatic. The BTSI has been replaced twice, This last time 4000 miles ago with the ignition switch repair.

Most times I can diddle the little button under the steering wheel and get the key out. Other times, though it's rare, it will go all the way to off like it's supposed to and release the key.

The no turn ignition switch thing happened once before when the car was new on a trip to Oregon.

It's frustrating because the engine and trans will be good for at least 200,000 miles, and it's fuel economy is great. But this has been going on so long, I,ve been looking at alternatives.

[kevin.st56]

i like how there isnt much concern about 2003 ions. in a lot of the information about the recalls, they always state 04-07...what about the 03s?

Just thought id throw that out lol