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Old 01-30-2014, 02:10 PM   #41
sallydriver
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Default Re: Questions about Partial Rebuild

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Originally Posted by caveeagle View Post
Somehow I doubt that was the only variable. .... But hey, you can't go wrong upgrading parts. Just sounded like the OP was 'budget minded'. With all the corner-cutting he has built into his plan... a $300 clutch can wait. (IMHO)

If he has a spare $300 to 'invest' in his build... is a Spec-3 clutch really the best next step? I would suggest a quality valve-job on that +200k motor.

Any build will be a balance of compramise. You have to decide where you want to spend your money, and what the potential risk is. Based on the current build plan... He will be into this motor for $800-$1100. He was planning on NO clutch replacement. I just think the step up to a spec3 is a bit of over-reach based on how I read his current project path (not the forced induction project, down the road).
Eventually, this car will be a bona fide race car, one that has the engine pulled for various reasons throughout the year. Right now though, I just need it on the road, because my DD, Sally, is getting quite tired driving 40 miles a day with over 280,000 miles on her. She needs work, but I can't have my DD be down without another car to drive, hence this quick rebuild. I wasn't even going to touch the engine except for the valve cover gasket, but then I caught the "While I'm here" bug.

...
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Old 01-30-2014, 02:42 PM   #42
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Default Re: Questions about Partial Rebuild

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Originally Posted by sallydriver View Post
Eventually, this car will be a bona fide race car, one that has the engine pulled for various reasons throughout the year. Right now though, I just need it on the road, because my DD, Sally, is getting quite tired driving 40 miles a day with over 280,000 miles on her. She needs work, but I can't have my DD be down without another car to drive, hence this quick rebuild. I wasn't even going to touch the engine except for the valve cover gasket, but then I caught the "While I'm here" bug.
Yea..... the "while I'm in there" bug can be a real PITA. Ultimately, you have to make the call on No clutch, stock, or Spec3. I was just pointing out that an 'incremental' $175 might not be a bad idea for short term reliability. If I were in your shoes, I would not spring for the "race car" clutch until you need it.

Good luck with your build. What class of racing are you planning for? I keep hearing about folks racing saturns. Kind of intrigues me. I am into Saturns for cheap/reliable transportation. I have V8 Fords for the times I feel like going fast. I just find it interesting how folks end up on certain projects.

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Old 01-30-2014, 02:54 PM   #43
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Default Re: Questions about Partial Rebuild

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Yea..... the "while I'm in there" bug can be a real PITA. Ultimately, you have to make the call on No clutch, stock, or Spec3. I was just pointing out that an 'incremental' $175 might not be a bad idea for short term reliability. If I were in your shoes, I would not spring for the "race car" clutch until you need it.

Good luck with your build. What class of racing are you planning for? I keep hearing about folks racing saturns. Kind of intrigues me. I am into Saturns for cheap/reliable transportation. I have V8 Fords for the times I feel like going fast. I just find it interesting how folks end up on certain projects.
We'll be starting in auto- and rallycross. The idea though is to move up to actual rallying. We're not doing it to win races though. We're doing it to enjoy it and improve our driving skills. Not to mention, we're both single with that not changing for the foreseeable future, so now is the time!

...
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1999 Forest Green SL2 5spd "Sally" 5spd : 307,100+ miles
1993 White SW2 5spd "Steve" 5spd : 234,984 miles

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Old 01-30-2014, 05:38 PM   #44
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Default Re: Questions about Partial Rebuild

Could someone tell me the P/N of the differential bearings? The bearings that support the differential assembly inside the case. I'm going to need those replaced.

...
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Old 01-30-2014, 06:19 PM   #45
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Default Re: Questions about Partial Rebuild

Pull the bearings out and get the complete bearing number from the actual bearing. 21003317 is OEM number but I would go bearing shopping once I had the actual number as I suspect you can buy a much higher quality bearing locally.

If you replace those bearings you will probably have to re-shim them.

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Old 01-30-2014, 08:17 PM   #46
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Default Re: Questions about Partial Rebuild

Re-shim? There were no shims in either of the transmissions I disassembled, nor, I believe, in the FSM.

...
2014 Cannondale 27spd 29": 30 miles
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1993 White SW2 5spd "Steve" 5spd : 234,984 miles

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Old 01-31-2014, 01:28 AM   #47
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Default Re: Questions about Partial Rebuild

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Originally Posted by sallydriver View Post
Re-shim? There were no shims in either of the transmissions I disassembled, nor, I believe, in the FSM.
Oh, yes there are, on the left side against the outer race of the carrier bearing there is what looks like a snap ring, that is a shim and they come in sizes or you buy sand paper and make them.

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Old 01-31-2014, 02:25 AM   #48
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Default Re: Questions about Partial Rebuild

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Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
Oh, yes there are, on the left side against the outer race of the carrier bearing there is what looks like a snap ring, that is a shim and they come in sizes or you buy sand paper and make them.
Hmm. OK, how do I do that? As in, what is the process of finding the right thickness?

...
2014 Cannondale 27spd 29": 30 miles
1999 Forest Green SL2 5spd "Sally" 5spd : 307,100+ miles
1993 White SW2 5spd "Steve" 5spd : 234,984 miles

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Old 01-31-2014, 11:21 AM   #49
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Default Re: Questions about Partial Rebuild

When digging into a transmission it is a very good idea to have either the FSM in front of you or a subscription to ALLData. There are many critical settings that are not obvious without these documents. The info below is all that is in the book but basically you measure that clearance between the outer race and the case and select a snap ring that reduces the clearance to zero. Special tool is not required but a hand full of round gauges is required and the average small allen wrench will function for this just fine.
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Old 01-31-2014, 06:05 PM   #50
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Default Re: Questions about Partial Rebuild

Would I be able to use something other than a snap ring? I'm not sure I could easily acquire one that I need.

Are both bearings the same part number? I only have one of them.

...
2014 Cannondale 27spd 29": 30 miles
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1993 White SW2 5spd "Steve" 5spd : 234,984 miles

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Old 01-31-2014, 07:44 PM   #51
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Default Re: Questions about Partial Rebuild

Both are the same number and there is a ring in the transmission now. The case is sealed with a special locktite(#515) and if you are ,real lucky the existing ring will be fine. Do not use RTV to try and seal the case halves.

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Old 02-02-2014, 11:21 AM   #52
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Default Re: Questions about Partial Rebuild

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
...The info below is all that is in the book but basically you measure that clearance between the outer race and the case and select a snap ring that reduces the clearance to zero. Special tool is not required but a hand full of round gauges is required and the average small allen wrench will function for this just fine.
And, keep in mind the arrow in the FSM picture points to the wrong spot
http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/a...rn/EndPlay.jpg

new shim after replacing bearings:
http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/a...lfDiffShim.jpg
I remember OldNuc telling me they are (might be?) available at Mcmaster-Carr

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Old 02-02-2014, 12:34 PM   #53
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Default Re: Questions about Partial Rebuild

You can make them out of snap rings, the actual shim is probably not available unless you buy a trans rebuild kit that contains those parts. Bearings are held to very tight tolerances so as long as you do not muck up the case sealing and torquing process the original shim should do the job fine. The fun starts when a person uses RTV instead of 515 to seal up the case as RTV makes a considerably thicker seal and it doe not squeeze out either.

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Old 02-03-2014, 01:29 PM   #54
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Default Re: Questions about Partial Rebuild

Yeah, I'm not finding the old one. Guess I'll be finding a new one.

...
2014 Cannondale 27spd 29": 30 miles
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1993 White SW2 5spd "Steve" 5spd : 234,984 miles

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Old 02-03-2014, 01:54 PM   #55
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Default Re: Questions about Partial Rebuild

They look like a plain snap ring with one end bent inward very slightly. These will work. Buy them so they will fit tightly in the bearing recess and then if too thick sand to fit. You can use the ones with the holes as well.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#retaining-rings/=qjapb4
http://www.mcmaster.com/#retaining-rings/=qjaqpr
http://www.mcmaster.com/#retaining-rings/=qjar9d
http://www.mcmaster.com/#retaining-rings/=qjarq9

There are lots of these so it is possible to find what you need.

Measure the OD of the bearing and you want a ring with that OD or very slightly larger.

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Old 03-03-2014, 11:02 PM   #56
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Default Re: Questions about Partial Rebuild

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
Both are the same number and there is a ring in the transmission now. The case is sealed with a special locktite(#515) and if you are ,real lucky the existing ring will be fine. Do not use RTV to try and seal the case halves.
I can't seem to find this locally anywhere, despite having mulitple industrial complexes within 25 miles.

Has it been superseded by a newer P/N, because I can't even find it on Loctite's site.

...
2014 Cannondale 27spd 29": 30 miles
1999 Forest Green SL2 5spd "Sally" 5spd : 307,100+ miles
1993 White SW2 5spd "Steve" 5spd : 234,984 miles

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Old 03-03-2014, 11:37 PM   #57
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Default Re: Questions about Partial Rebuild

This is what you are looking for to seal the case. http://www.mcmaster.com/#loctite-515/=qxwrpk The 515 is a good number

This is from the Locktite site, it is under industrial. http://www.henkelna.com/adhesives/pr...=8797928488961

Most good NAPA stores can get it or stock it.

Amazon has it in stock. http://www.amazon.com/Loctite-38655-.../dp/B0002KKTTA

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Old 03-03-2014, 11:44 PM   #58
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Default Re: Questions about Partial Rebuild

I have it in the cart on Amazon, but I wanted to see if I could find it locally.

I can't seem to get NAPA's website to work, so I'll either call or stop by there tomorrow. Thanks.

...
2014 Cannondale 27spd 29": 30 miles
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1993 White SW2 5spd "Steve" 5spd : 234,984 miles

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Old 03-03-2014, 11:52 PM   #59
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Default Re: Questions about Partial Rebuild

The NAPA website is useless as it only understands NAPA part numbers.

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Old 03-06-2014, 11:52 AM   #60
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Default Re: Questions about Partial Rebuild

Pictures?????

Where are the pics????

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