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Old 01-13-2014, 10:56 PM   #1
satlite440
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Default 6t70 trans q&a thread

here is where you can post to my 6t70 3-5-r wave plate failure thread and i will do my best to answer all 6t70&6t75 trans questions you all have as best i can...

...
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Old 01-15-2014, 01:11 PM   #2
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Dizzy Re: 6t70 trans q&a thread

i will restrict myself to . . . . . yeeeech !

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Old 01-15-2014, 04:03 PM   #3
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Default Re: 6t70 trans q&a thread

this is not the worst i have seen but it's close

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Old 01-16-2014, 11:35 PM   #4
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Default Re: 6t70 trans q&a thread

how about helping me out with my really simple query re: sparkplugs !?

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Old 01-17-2014, 12:00 AM   #5
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Default Re: 6t70 trans q&a thread

I want to give you a huge thanks for that writeup. Not owning anything with an affected transmission I haven't searched hard for fixes, but have never seen any info on DIY repairs.

Thank you for sharing your knowledge with those transmissions and helping people to fix them themselves!

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Old 01-17-2014, 07:44 AM   #6
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Default Re: 6t70 trans q&a thread

One of the biggest contributions I have ever seen on a car forum and I have been around a long time. As an owner of a Saturn with 6T70...thank you.

Reviewing the depth of this repair a couple of things are quite apparent.

A. you work you tail off and deserve every dollar you make and I hope it is a lot.
B. this job is not for even the skilled home mechanic (I am in this category) and also a job I would have performed at a GM dealership after doing my due diligence to find out the qualification of the trans tech doing the work. There are so many steps to this job and the repair procedure no doubt is more evolved at a GM dealership and has been an updated work in progress compared to a local transmission shop.

Thanks so much for sharing your talent.

PS: Your tip about taking a pint or so sample of the fluid to assess transmission status prior to failure by evaluating aluminum (dust fairy) content is brilliant.

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Old 01-19-2014, 11:29 AM   #7
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Default Re: 6t70 trans q&a thread

Satlite440...quick question please about changing Dex VI in the 6T70:

Spec sheet shows the trans with converter holds 9.5 qts.
Dumping fluid won't drain nearly that amount of course. Most that perform the fluid dump/refill procedure report the trans takes about 5.0 -5.5 qts upon refill. Can you share your experience about best amount to put back in the trans?

PS: For those interested and I know satlite440 knows this....the 6T70 is hyper sensitive to fluid level. This is for two reasons. Dextron VI has a higher rate of thermal expansion compared to other trans fluids and the 6T70 is very sensitive to trans temp. Ironically, if you overfill the 6T70 it will cause it to overheat. Intuitively, it would seem the opposite...more fluid would be a better buffer against heat because of larger thermal mass (heat sink) of a large volume of fluid but not the case for this trans based upon numerous reports. In fact, I wonder how many trans failures...perhaps even affecting the wave plate issue are affected by improper fluid level....either too much fluid or not. So do NOT overfill this trans.

Level checking procedure: Fluid should be 185-203 F, engine running, trans in park. Level should be within the crosshatch area, not above. The manual stresses the importance of checking the fluid when its temp is 185-203, to check twice, read both sides of the dipstick, and not to add more than one half pint at a time if level is too low.

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Old 01-19-2014, 02:25 PM   #8
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Default Re: 6t70 trans q&a thread

the 1st thing you need to do is drive at least 20 miles (gm considers this full hot regardless of the trans type in question.reasons for this are twofold 1st we get to operating temp quicker due the fliud shearing in the converter as opposed to idleing up to temp(long wait time)and helpful if no access to trans temp data for what ever reason..2nd it get the fluid circulating and picks up some of the heavyer debris thats settled in the case(note we will never get it all unless you tear it down and manualy clean it). after getting hot park on as level ground as you can get..those who want to get the most amount of fluid out park ft end down hill..pull the drain plug.. the service drain&fill in my experence is anywhere from 6 to 8.5 qts everone seem to be different somehow.. as a rule i do 6qts in then start and ck it..i would highly recomend takeing out the dipstick the night before and painting the upper end of the indcator and wire white or any color you think you can see good..that way you can see if you are over filled..if you are over filled i use a qt bottle and drain out in 1 qt incraments till i see the center of the stick...i prefer the center of the stick or a little below 1/2.. this allows room for fluid expansion..then go another 20 miles and reck your level it should be up to the top of the xhatch or just shy.. if it is your good.. if it's over drain 1/2 qt now..remember to tighten the drain plug.. needs no more than useing 3 fingers to pull the rachet till its snug on a standard lenght handle..this is a tapered plug and you could wind it it in till flush with case,but you ability to seal will be compromised..ideal tight is 3-5 threads still showing depending on how many times it has been out.. don't strip it as it is not a standard metric thread..is nfpt(national,fine,pipe,thread,)and you will have to buy a special tap...... as far as fliud level i don't feel(i have no basis in fact to support this other than my own meandering expereince) that it will contribute to the plate failure..it's the repeated flexing of the plate due to that cluch is so busy.a pop can can only be flexed so many time till it breaks/trears in 1/2 same concept to the plate failure.. it will have a greater effect on the shift quality as an underfilled trans will lack volume to fill a pistion quick enough to shift on time so it will seem to flare more in a gear comming on..overfill will test out the vent(ie the dipstik cap is the vent)thats why it's all slimy inbetween the cks most people do if ever.. also DO NOT BE ALARMED if the next day cold there is only a drip on just the very tip of the stick..THATS normal due to the fluid expansion/contraction rate....hth

...
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Old 01-19-2014, 04:24 PM   #9
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Default Re: 6t70 trans q&a thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by satlite440 View Post
the 1st thing you need to do is drive at least 20 miles (gm considers this full hot regardless of the trans type in question.reasons for this are twofold 1st we get to operating temp quicker due the fliud shearing in the converter as opposed to idleing up to temp(long wait time)and helpful if no access to trans temp data for what ever reason..2nd it get the fluid circulating and picks up some of the heavyer debris thats settled in the case(note we will never get it all unless you tear it down and manualy clean it). after getting hot park on as level ground as you can get..those who want to get the most amount of fluid out park ft end down hill..pull the drain plug.. the service drain&fill in my experence is anywhere from 6 to 8.5 qts everone seem to be different somehow.. as a rule i do 6qts in then start and ck it..i would highly recomend takeing out the dipstick the night before and painting the upper end of the indcator and wire white or any color you think you can see good..that way you can see if you are over filled..if you are over filled i use a qt bottle and drain out in 1 qt incraments till i see the center of the stick...i prefer the center of the stick or a little below 1/2.. this allows room for fluid expansion..then go another 20 miles and reck your level it should be up to the top of the xhatch or just shy.. if it is your good.. if it's over drain 1/2 qt now..remember to tighten the drain plug.. needs no more than useing 3 fingers to pull the rachet till its snug on a standard lenght handle..this is a tapered plug and you could wind it it in till flush with case,but you ability to seal will be compromised..ideal tight is 3-5 threads still showing depending on how many times it has been out.. don't strip it as it is not a standard metric thread..is nfpt(national,fine,pipe,thread,)and you will have to buy a special tap...... as far as fliud level i don't feel(i have no basis in fact to support this other than my own meandering expereince) that it will contribute to the plate failure..it's the repeated flexing of the plate due to that cluch is so busy.a pop can can only be flexed so many time till it breaks/trears in 1/2 same concept to the plate failure.. it will have a greater effect on the shift quality as an underfilled trans will lack volume to fill a pistion quick enough to shift on time so it will seem to flare more in a gear comming on..overfill will test out the vent(ie the dipstik cap is the vent)thats why it's all slimy inbetween the cks most people do if ever.. also DO NOT BE ALARMED if the next day cold there is only a drip on just the very tip of the stick..THATS normal due to the fluid expansion/contraction rate....hth
Helps a lot. Great post. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
PS: had no idea that plug was a tapered thread and didn't bottom line-to-line flush to the trans body. So glad you mentioned that because assembly torque is very different than rapid torque build up of a flush plug like the oil pan upon reassembly.

First thing I am going to do before changing the fluid in my Vue with 32K miles on the clock is take a pint sample from that drain plug after driving the car for 20 miles and inspect it for fairy dust. Thanks again.

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Old 02-02-2014, 01:36 PM   #10
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Default Re: 6t70 trans fluid sample

Wanted to post my findings on my 6T70 trans here to offer some perspective on trans fluid sampling as a means to assess overall trans condition. This is by no means a predictor of trans longevity as no doubt the onslaught of 3-5-R Wave plate runnout and failure can be quite sudden. After Satlite440's excellent review of this trans and this related issue, I decide to check on the status of mine which is in a 2009 Vue Redline with the same trans that you guys have in your Outlooks.

Drained the fluid today and took a sample off initial fluid pouring from the trans to see if there was any glitter indicative of a worn Al housing adjacent to a possible wave plate failure. Will preface and say this trans has shifted excellent since new.. In fact, it seems to shift better with age. My car has 32K miles on it.
Have a look at the trans sample below. For 32K mile fluid looks I would say very good to excellent. Thankfully no glitter aka Al particles in the fluid. Fluid color is close to Red...mostly Red but not like new Dex VI but showing limited degradation. Dumped about 5 qts. and refilled with same. This basically purged just over 1/2 the trans sump....lots of fluid still in the converter and valve body.

A note of thanks is in order and this is very important to those that attempt to take a sample and do an inexpensive dump of their current tran fluid.
1. Drain bolt is easy to access and 11mm.
2. Most important. This drain bolt is unusual in that is has a tapered thread. Satlite440 explained this and one of the best tips I have ever read on the web over and above his advice about taking a fluid sample to access general trans status. Do NOT over torque this plug when threading back in or you will cause serious damage if not split the case. With a tapered thread, only low torque is necessary to not only seal the plug against leaks but keep it from backing out. This is an unusual design for a drain plug but very effective at the risk of being damaged by an inexperience wrench.

My personal view having done this now at relatively low mileage is, its worth it to not only access trans status but also put clean fluid in. The wave plate is a lottery on these transmissions but if yours is one that lasts and I hope mine is as well, overall trans performance will be better with clean fluid. Discarding placebo, I believe the trans shifts better now than before the fluid change. Seamless is a good description under light throttle. Perfect really and hope the trans lasts as I don't put big miles on this car. Will likely change the fluid and take a look in another couple of years.

Thanks again to satlite440. You are the man and a credit to the industry.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Vue Trans Fluid Sample 2-02-14 Resize 01.jpg (23.8 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg Vue Trans Fluid Sample 2-02-14 Resize 02.jpg (60.0 KB, 14 views)

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Old 03-13-2014, 02:09 AM   #11
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Default Re: 6t70 trans q&a thread

I have got a 6t70 3-5-r wave plate recently and I am very happy to see such a thread.

...
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Old 03-13-2014, 06:47 AM   #12
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Default Re: 6t70 trans q&a thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by gliff View Post
I have got a 6t70 3-5-r wave plate recently and I am very happy to see such a thread.
Can you share how you got it resolved? Did GM help with the repair with a 50/50? Reman trans?

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Old 03-20-2014, 01:11 PM   #13
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Default Re: 6t70 trans q&a thread

Posting here to get updates! I have a bad one in my 2007 Outlook looking for any and all advice.

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Old 03-20-2014, 10:07 PM   #14
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Default Re: 6t70 trans q&a thread

ask gm for assitance.. this is not a trans for your averave joe due to you need to know what you are looking for as a root problem..that takes data.. shop support is critical as this is a hevy unit and several special tools and a press are needed.. any specific question's pm me i have done a while write up as to the o/v proceedure..

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Old 09-11-2014, 11:40 PM   #15
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Default Re: 6t70 trans q&a thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by satlite440 View Post
ask gm for assitance.. this is not a trans for your averave joe due to you need to know what you are looking for as a root problem..that takes data.. shop support is critical as this is a hevy unit and several special tools and a press are needed.. any specific question's pm me i have done a while write up as to the o/v proceedure..
Couple of questions:

1) My 2007 Aura XR has just over 70K on it. I have recently noticed that it will very occasionally slip a bit (maybe this is called a flare - RPM goes up very briefly, and then back down) when shifting 3-4, but only when it is cold. Is this a sign of waveplate failure, or do I maybe just need a fluid change (never done one on it)?

2) Besides the fact that my car is obviously out of warranty because it's way too old, it's also a rebuilt title (in a collision and somebody repaired it). Am I correct to assume that I'm SOL for any help from GM?

3) A local very well respected trans shop tells me they have tons of experience with these transmissions. They know about the revised wave plates, and also apparently some other electronic parts that delaminate, and claim that they've done quite a few. Safe to bring it there, if they're cheaper than the dealer, or should I just go to the dealer anyway? If I should go the dealer route, any ideas of a good on in Grand Rapids, MI?

Thanks for being awesome, satlite440!

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Old 09-12-2014, 11:35 PM   #16
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Default Re: 6t70 trans q&a thread

1 if you have a flare(ie feels like a dead spot and the trans is not pulling) this can be semi normal as the wave plate ages..however since you are before the may 09.it is just a question of when not if..

2while you might be out by time there is milage to consider,low for how old it is.. as far as tile goes it only matters if gm "brands"your title..would need your vin to see

3 other than the tcm with the tfp bellows issue the only other electronics are the input and output speed sensors..there is no delamination I am aware of.. tcm&speed sensors will be about say 600 retail plus reprogramming... if you do have a problem it never hurts to ask for cust asstance.. the worst they can say is no and you are only out the diag time$..the best is to offer you a 50/50 split....good luck

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Old 09-17-2014, 12:09 PM   #17
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Default Re: 6t70 trans q&a thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by satlite440 View Post
1 if you have a flare(ie feels like a dead spot and the trans is not pulling) this can be semi normal as the wave plate ages..however since you are before the may 09.it is just a question of when not if..

2while you might be out by time there is milage to consider,low for how old it is.. as far as tile goes it only matters if gm "brands"your title..would need your vin to see

3 other than the tcm with the tfp bellows issue the only other electronics are the input and output speed sensors..there is no delamination I am aware of.. tcm&speed sensors will be about say 600 retail plus reprogramming... if you do have a problem it never hurts to ask for cust asstance.. the worst they can say is no and you are only out the diag time$..the best is to offer you a 50/50 split....good luck
I got the car with 40K on it and no maintenance history, so if the trans went out on the previous owner in the first 40K, there is a chance that it has the revised parts already. Do you know how I can find out if I have a "branded" title? If I PM you my VIN is there a way to check? Also, if I take it in for diag, can they tell if the waveplate is going out while it's still in the early stages?

Thanks!

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Old 09-17-2014, 11:21 PM   #18
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Default Re: 6t70 trans q&a thread

yes if you pm me your vin I will pull a report for you..

2 I would love to sat yes to if they could tell you but as with all things it depends on the competence of the tec,how long he has been doing red oil,how many 6t70"s he's done..i would pull a fluid sample and compare to the 6t70 o/h thread I did.. the atf should have been done at 60k..

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Old 09-25-2014, 03:27 PM   #19
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Default Re: 6t70 trans q&a thread

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yes if you pm me your vin I will pull a report for you..

2 I would love to sat yes to if they could tell you but as with all things it depends on the competence of the tec,how long he has been doing red oil,how many 6t70"s he's done..i would pull a fluid sample and compare to the 6t70 o/h thread I did.. the atf should have been done at 60k..
Satlite440, are you referring to post #7 in your thread (the forum wont let me post a link, even though it's to saturnfans.com )

I was planning on draining & replacing the fluid that would come out, but if those pictures are from a failing trans, perhaps I should bring it to a dealer ... I really don't know what I'm looking for, and had assumed there'd be a metallic shimmer (similar to metallic paint with very fine metal while it's still in the can) ... but I just don't see it in those pics. I don't want to risk changing my fluid and losing the only real diagnostic tool I have if the metal is difficult to spot for an untrained eye... Could you describe what exactly to look for, and how hard it is to see if you haven't seen it a hundred times over?

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Old 09-25-2014, 10:12 PM   #20
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Default Re: 6t70 trans q&a thread

start the truck get an 11 mm socket...there will be 2 11mm plugs below..1 up above under the subframe and 1 out in the open at the bottom of the trans..the one in the open is the 1 you want..get a paper cup drain enough to fill it 1/2 way(also you could fill a clear,dry water bottle for a sample to keep for future reference if needed).. the fluid will probably be dark redish black to black..a small amount of aluminum is ok..but if the fluid is more grey/black and when you swerl it in the cup it looks like metallic model car paint and gery that's bad..hope that helps you could also pm me your email and then I will respone and you could e-mail me a pic..

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