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Old 01-13-2014, 09:34 PM   #1
satlite440
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2001 SL2
Default saturn outlook 6t70&6t75 3-5-r failure

so it was brought to my attention that there was little to no info on 6t70 repairs..1st i am a dealer tech for a gmc/caddy/buick dealer and a gm cirtified master tec in auto trans among other catagories(before we get to far taat was befor my time as red oil.. and didn;t get into saturns till 2 yrs ago when i got built my better 1/2 a 2001 sl2 dohc as she always wanted one) gm7 mentioned that he could not find any info on how to pull one of these units nor alot about internal repair.. that said i want to change that some what...but 1st a few rules..1st any change of the tcm aka the (transmission control module)aka tcm&silinoid pac assy will require dealer programming.the tcm should be updated to the latest calibration and the adapts reset after any internal work is performed..2nd this is a very heavy unit almost 300 lbs.there is no easy way to put this unit on a jack there is a comany called case adapt that makes an adapter i don't have one as you will see..i don't recomend this for the average home repair..you might get it out but you will hate life going back in..there are 2 ways to do it hang the moter or drop the powertrain..this post concerns hang the moter.. my example is a gmc acaida but the outlook and enclave are simalar..here we go
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 030.jpg (117.8 KB, 45 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 031.jpg (182.1 KB, 52 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 032.jpg (178.6 KB, 50 views)

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shure you can trust the government,just ask us indians all about it...

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Old 01-13-2014, 09:46 PM   #2
satlite440
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2001 SL2
Default Re: saturn outlook 6t70&6t75 3-5-r failure

for thoses who have had this repair done or are hunting ghosts in the machine the ubec(underhood,bussed,electrical,center) is taken apart for quite alot of repairs includeing dropping the powertrain for timming chain work,trans work..so if you have issues after a repair here is where to look 1st..1st pull the ubec cover after hooking the batt.. remove the 13mm nut and power cables.. then there are 2 10mm bolts,if you look closely to the outbord side of the ubec 10mm bolt there is an ornge indacator i point out with a pocket screwdriver..when the bolt and connecter underneath is lined up and corectly tighed the tabs will touch and be flush with the ubec..if not you might have to try again to get it seated right..the bolts are non stripping they will only pull up the ubec connecter so far to contact and when its tight it will click and feel stripped but it is not...and the ornge tabs should be touching.. after loosening the ubec bolts there is a few retainers that need to be poped to let the ubec body be pulled up and seperated from the connecters,,,
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 033.jpg (126.0 KB, 37 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 034.jpg (101.7 KB, 31 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 035.jpg (183.5 KB, 34 views)

...
shure you can trust the government,just ask us indians all about it...

heavy line the final protective fire line of the dealership

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Old 01-13-2014, 10:02 PM   #3
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2001 SL2
Default Re: saturn outlook 6t70&6t75 3-5-r failure

now we get to the hanger set up.. the 3.6L and 6t70 combo is heavy..there is a reason my hanger is made of 2inch square steel.. things of note due to the limited area's to hang this moter when you drop the subframe the moter has a tendancy to swing forward little scary if you are not used to it be prepared..i leave the struts and brake stuff incar no need to remove,,i do hovever lift up the pto(tcase) and pull the pass side mount completly out along with the cvc shaft and pto bracket and pto,,unmount the steering gear and ziptie to rear exhaust cat.. let subframe hang by lower ball joints.remove subframe...next for those who have the 3.6L if you have to replace the starter you have to remove the ft cat.. i will post more on starter and the funky clip tomarrow...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 036.jpg (190.0 KB, 38 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 037.jpg (130.8 KB, 31 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 038.jpg (150.9 KB, 31 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 039.jpg (151.6 KB, 32 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 040.jpg (155.4 KB, 36 views)

...
shure you can trust the government,just ask us indians all about it...

heavy line the final protective fire line of the dealership

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Old 01-13-2014, 10:07 PM   #4
satlite440
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2001 SL2
Default Re: saturn outlook 6t70&6t75 3-5-r failure

so bear with me more pics for removal here is the clip for the starter purple wire and the clip has to be pusheddown at the sloped end.. this would not be a problem if you could see it but you never can so now you can before you try
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 041.jpg (78.1 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 042.jpg (125.4 KB, 27 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 043.jpg (139.3 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 044.jpg (121.7 KB, 23 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 045.jpg (72.7 KB, 23 views)

...
shure you can trust the government,just ask us indians all about it...

heavy line the final protective fire line of the dealership

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Old 01-13-2014, 10:11 PM   #5
satlite440
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2001 SL2
Default Re: saturn outlook 6t70&6t75 3-5-r failure

now to the drop out.. as you can see i have made some custom blocks i use for these along with a 2inch wide rachet strap to hold this beast still... then to the holding fixture.. you don't have to have this but take my word for it it is nice to have....
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 046.jpg (110.9 KB, 29 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 047.jpg (119.6 KB, 33 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 048.jpg (157.2 KB, 29 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 049.jpg (113.6 KB, 33 views)

...
shure you can trust the government,just ask us indians all about it...

heavy line the final protective fire line of the dealership

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Old 01-13-2014, 10:20 PM   #6
satlite440
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2001 SL2
Default Re: saturn outlook 6t70&6t75 3-5-r failure

in the next series of photo's we are removeing the tcm and control valve body.. i have put white out on the bolt that need to be removed for those who are brave/stupid enough to (i count myself in that group take your pick of what one i am)to attempt this at home...the tcm and the control body can be done on car just alot more crud in the way to work around,, as gm would say we have removed the unit for clarity..also pic 3 shows the tfp(trans fluid pressure switched that fail between 50&100k the bellows seperates and then the switch doesn't change states so in to default we go..tfp failure requires a new tcm..gm won't buy you a new tcm unless we find an issue with it during reconditioning..they usualy fail about a yr after the o/h...a;so you can see the build up of metal in the case
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 050.jpg (144.9 KB, 35 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 051.jpg (168.9 KB, 35 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 052.jpg (100.3 KB, 34 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 053.jpg (161.9 KB, 33 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 054.jpg (111.0 KB, 35 views)

...
shure you can trust the government,just ask us indians all about it...

heavy line the final protective fire line of the dealership

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Old 01-13-2014, 10:29 PM   #7
satlite440
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2001 SL2
Default Re: saturn outlook 6t70&6t75 3-5-r failure

i forgot to ask that people don't post replies to this thread as i will start one for 6t70 q&a's in another thread this is for a primer of what you are faceing..so now some pics of what failed fluid looks like when you drain a sample....i tried to get the best quality pics i could
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 055.jpg (58.4 KB, 30 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 056.jpg (54.8 KB, 21 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 057.jpg (72.1 KB, 26 views)

...
shure you can trust the government,just ask us indians all about it...

heavy line the final protective fire line of the dealership

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Old 01-13-2014, 10:38 PM   #8
satlite440
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2001 SL2
Default Re: saturn outlook 6t70&6t75 3-5-r failure

so now we go internal.i have removed the side case cover and moved the broken wave plate pieces out from where they layed to be seen then we will move onto the case cover it self.. the pocket screwdriver shows where the 3-5-r houseing and the shattered plate cut off the 2-6 piston return spring retiner land on the cover so it will need to be replaced.NOTE replace all snap ring in the affected area's always never reuse..you will regret it as may other tehs i know have found out the hard way... now we split the case 1/2's to get to the filter&pump assy
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 058.jpg (158.5 KB, 29 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 059.jpg (163.6 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 060.jpg (109.8 KB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 061.jpg (163.9 KB, 23 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 062.jpg (134.1 KB, 24 views)

...
shure you can trust the government,just ask us indians all about it...

heavy line the final protective fire line of the dealership

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Old 01-13-2014, 10:46 PM   #9
satlite440
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2001 SL2
Default Re: saturn outlook 6t70&6t75 3-5-r failure

now the pump now that you can see where the pump is this is the area where you need to listen for a buzzing noise.. if you don't have a buzzing noise you are ok..the buzz is caused by the pump cavatating due being plugged up with metal debris causeing the relife spring to work overtime..and finaly the amount of metal depoited in the case
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 063.jpg (177.9 KB, 20 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 064.jpg (122.5 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 065.jpg (131.2 KB, 20 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 066.jpg (144.1 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 067.jpg (96.7 KB, 21 views)

...
shure you can trust the government,just ask us indians all about it...

heavy line the final protective fire line of the dealership

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Old 01-13-2014, 10:53 PM   #10
satlite440
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2001 SL2
Default Re: saturn outlook 6t70&6t75 3-5-r failure

this one is of the 3-5-r houseing i tried to get good shots of the damage the plate failure and the excess travel of the remaining plates do..i will start the o/h in the am and will post pics of the clean up and repair..note there are quite a few special tools along with a press that are requtired to perform this repair..most of these could be found on ebay for the not faint of heart...i ask nobody post on this thread as it is more of an informational thread as opposed to a everone jump in and comment thread... as i stated before i will start a 6t70 q&a thread for that thank you satlite440
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 068.jpg (107.4 KB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 069.jpg (74.1 KB, 21 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 070.jpg (87.4 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 071.jpg (81.5 KB, 22 views)

...
shure you can trust the government,just ask us indians all about it...

heavy line the final protective fire line of the dealership

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Old 01-14-2014, 10:42 PM   #11
satlite440
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2001 SL2
Default Re: saturn outlook 6t70&6t75 3-5-r failure

ok now we have cleaned up the case's renewed the chain guides for the pump drive.flushed out the pump and renewed the filter. now we move onto the Front Differential Transfer Drive Gear. we need to renew the passthrogh sleve for the turbine shaft..those who didn;t have tcc issues due to fluid leaks in the 2 seals on this assy
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 004.jpg (148.6 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 005.jpg (147.2 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 006.jpg (128.1 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 007.jpg (93.7 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 008.jpg (85.7 KB, 15 views)

...
shure you can trust the government,just ask us indians all about it...

heavy line the final protective fire line of the dealership

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Old 01-14-2014, 10:46 PM   #12
satlite440
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2001 SL2
Default Re: saturn outlook 6t70&6t75 3-5-r failure

so now we have the tourqe converter side cleaned and ready for pump.chain install after the converter seal is renewed the seal on the pick is for tcc fluid ckt sealing
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 009.jpg (95.2 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 010.jpg (86.2 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 011.jpg (160.8 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 012.jpg (142.9 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 013.jpg (161.2 KB, 14 views)

...
shure you can trust the government,just ask us indians all about it...

heavy line the final protective fire line of the dealership

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Old 01-14-2014, 10:54 PM   #13
satlite440
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satlite440 is a splendid one to beholdsatlite440 is a splendid one to beholdsatlite440 is a splendid one to beholdsatlite440 is a splendid one to beholdsatlite440 is a splendid one to beholdsatlite440 is a splendid one to beholdsatlite440 is a splendid one to beholdsatlite440 is a splendid one to behold
 
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2001 SL2
Default Re: saturn outlook 6t70&6t75 3-5-r failure

so upcomming are some of the special tools involved the turbine shaft seal driver and the converter scarf seal that has to be sized then on to the next part assemble case 1/2 then we start with the 1-2-3-4 piston and the tools to install it
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 014.jpg (133.0 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 015.jpg (149.6 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 016.jpg (108.3 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 017.jpg (140.5 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 018.jpg (162.5 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 019.jpg (178.7 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 020.jpg (110.2 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 021.jpg (154.6 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 022.jpg (145.8 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 023.jpg (148.9 KB, 11 views)

...
shure you can trust the government,just ask us indians all about it...

heavy line the final protective fire line of the dealership

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Old 01-14-2014, 11:05 PM   #14
satlite440
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2001 SL2
Default Re: saturn outlook 6t70&6t75 3-5-r failure

getting the 1-2-3-4 piston and spring in along with the 1-2-3-4 cluches and steels the low otw cluch the low/reverse cluches and steels and the 2-6 cluches and steels along with the reaction gear assy
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 025.jpg (145.4 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 026.jpg (161.6 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 027.jpg (144.6 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 028.jpg (170.6 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 029.jpg (142.9 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 030.jpg (150.5 KB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 031.jpg (194.8 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 032.jpg (146.4 KB, 8 views)

...
shure you can trust the government,just ask us indians all about it...

heavy line the final protective fire line of the dealership

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Old 01-14-2014, 11:15 PM   #15
satlite440
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2001 SL2
Default Re: saturn outlook 6t70&6t75 3-5-r failure

now we move onto the broken stuff the case cover is usuly wiped out and the 3-5-r houseing is wiped out so we will build new ones in these pics you can see where the old 3-5-r cut off the snapring land
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 033.jpg (162.8 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 034.jpg (121.5 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 035.jpg (83.3 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 036.jpg (71.2 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 037.jpg (136.4 KB, 13 views)

...
shure you can trust the government,just ask us indians all about it...

heavy line the final protective fire line of the dealership

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Old 01-14-2014, 11:22 PM   #16
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2001 SL2
Default Re: saturn outlook 6t70&6t75 3-5-r failure

on to the build.. now there are some piston seal protecters to help install the pistons and we need a press to compress the springs to get the snaprings in for the low/reverse piston and the 2-6 piston
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 038.jpg (86.5 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 039.jpg (117.8 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 040.jpg (88.0 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 041.jpg (129.2 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 042.jpg (143.0 KB, 9 views)

...
shure you can trust the government,just ask us indians all about it...

heavy line the final protective fire line of the dealership

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Old 01-14-2014, 11:27 PM   #17
satlite440
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2001 SL2
Default Re: saturn outlook 6t70&6t75 3-5-r failure

now on to the 3-5-r again press to get off and install the last pic shows the internal spline steels that tear up the houseing when the plate fails
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 044.jpg (136.1 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 045.jpg (72.7 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 046.jpg (140.2 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 047.jpg (85.9 KB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 048.jpg (113.5 KB, 10 views)

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shure you can trust the government,just ask us indians all about it...

heavy line the final protective fire line of the dealership

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Old 01-14-2014, 11:35 PM   #18
satlite440
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: kent wa
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2001 SL2
Default Re: saturn outlook 6t70&6t75 3-5-r failure

now we are ready to install the houseing and case covor and start cleaning of the control valve body the pocket scredriver is pointing to the drain plug for these trannys if you want to drain and fill.. the other plug is a line pressure tap....tomarrow we will finish going through the v/b more pic then and thean any questions you have can be posted to the end of the primer this trans is in the vue&outlook
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 049.jpg (156.3 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 050.jpg (162.0 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 051.jpg (143.7 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 052.jpg (129.4 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 053.jpg (108.0 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail 054.jpg (176.5 KB, 12 views)

...
shure you can trust the government,just ask us indians all about it...

heavy line the final protective fire line of the dealership

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Old 01-15-2014, 08:34 PM   #19
satlite440
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: kent wa
Posts: 1,029

2001 SL2
Default Re: saturn outlook 6t70&6t75 3-5-r failure

so now we are at the valve body.. this is the soul of the this trans the tcm is the heart the larger center section is the one that has most of our valves.. evan though the pump has a filter you would be suprised by how much grit gets into the v/b...unfortuneatly a great many tens tecs overlook this part as there are a lot of parts and they have to be put back exactly to work right.along with the ck balls that need to find the right holes..there are 9 ck balls and 2 ports in the center of the v/b that are deep engough for 2 balls and the o/h kit comes with 10..if you double ball eather one of these holes you will have no reverse or 4th don't ask how i know..
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail2 069.jpg (176.4 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail2 070.jpg (130.7 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail2 075.jpg (138.7 KB, 15 views)

...
shure you can trust the government,just ask us indians all about it...

heavy line the final protective fire line of the dealership

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Old 01-15-2014, 08:55 PM   #20
satlite440
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: kent wa
Posts: 1,029

2001 SL2
Default Re: saturn outlook 6t70&6t75 3-5-r failure

next up is the tcm..as you can see the shift solinoids,line pressure,tcc are all intagrated along with the tcm(transmission control module) along with the trans fluid temp sensor.. the 2 plugs at the top are your iss(input speed sensor) and oss(out put speed sensor) the plug at the bottome if for the interanal mode switch.. that is a repiar not for the faint of heart.. if you pull the parkpawl rod out to far and here a loud snick.. bag it for the day as you have to split open the case 1/2s to fix it or as the car will be locked in park till you do.. now put the cover on and your good to go..a note on cooler line flow a good cooler after this failure shouuld do aroung mimamum of 2.0 gpm(gallons per minet) average is about 2.2 to 2.6 this one had about 1.9 but had an after market cooler spliced in that was actualy restricting flow due to the cooler lines going from 4mm pipe to3/16 hose to a small aux cooler.. poorly done.. will be haveing a talk with s/w and cust about removeing it at restore adaqute flow.. also if you have had this reapir done.. there will be some metal still in converter all we can do is drain them.. also gm will not allow replaceing the converter or tcm during this repair..it's a dumb policy idk how many tcm's i replaced less than a yr later dur to a tfp(trans fluid pressure)switch bellows failure.. or converters for tcc shudder.. beleave me i would rather do it all at one time but you have hoops to jump through at your job..the guy at the dealer who did this for you does too....thank you for your intrest in this thread andi hope it put some faces to the names of the dreaded wave plate failure.... satlite440
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail2 076.jpg (117.2 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail2 077.jpg (67.6 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail2 079.jpg (136.9 KB, 18 views)
File Type: jpg 6t70 fail2 078.jpg (94.8 KB, 20 views)

...
shure you can trust the government,just ask us indians all about it...

heavy line the final protective fire line of the dealership

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

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