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Old 12-25-2013, 07:58 PM   #1
taubry
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Dizzy Broken exhaust manifold! not cracked, completely sheared off!

I have a 2001 L200 5 speed 2.2 4cylinder. Just bought it, got a great deal on it and i love it. i've always had a bit of an appreciation for saturns and have nearly bought one on a few occasions, but finally now i own one and am happy to!

The Exhaust Manifold is entirely broken. i have done dozens of searches and people only seem to discuss cracks. this is no crack, the manifold is broken where the four cylinders meet and join the downpipe, a few inches above the flange which bolts on the the downpipe to cat section. the pipe is hanging loosely in the engine bay and it is broken far before the 02 sensor so i am incurring all the issues associated. have codes for fuel too lean, have a very high idle, car is CATASTROPHICALLY loud and obnoxious, and i have a code for the air pump which as of now i assume is because of the broken manifold.

Now, problem is i have searched my usual parts sites, scoured craigslist, and called every junkyard around and NO ONE has an exhaust manifold for a manual transmission L200. I know the one for the VUE is the same so im embarking on that avenue but my question is, are there any other GM models with the same part number for the manual tranny manifold, and in the meantime is that area able to be welded or will it not be able to be welded because of the location of the break?

any help would be awesome. thank you in advance!

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Old 12-25-2013, 10:59 PM   #2
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Default Re: Broken exhaust manifold! not cracked, completely sheared off!

Heres one on Ebay, Sounds like you need to replace the whole unit.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/00-01-02-03-...8440db&vxp=mtr

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Old 12-26-2013, 02:40 AM   #3
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Default Re: Broken exhaust manifold! not cracked, completely sheared off!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SL19302 View Post
Heres one on Ebay, Sounds like you need to replace the whole unit.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/00-01-02-03-...8440db&vxp=mtr
No, not quite, SL19302. The link states that it's for a 2.2l with "AT" (automatic transmission).

Welcome to Saturnfans, Taubry - glad you're here! You're probably already aware that the exhaust manifold for the 2.2L with a manual transaxle is not very common as not many L's were sold with the MTs. As best I can recall from days when I worked with machinists, none ever recommended welding an exhaust manifold. I don't know about any other models which may be compatible with the L in this situation, though I certainly hope that you can find a replacement without having to resort to a custom made manifold.

There's a member here who'd found an aftermarket replacement for the exhaust manifold with MT. Take a look at the first link below.

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...haust+manifold

Members posted some possible models as having an ex. man. for MT which might be compatible in the next link.

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...haust+manifold

Good luck!!

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Old 12-26-2013, 12:41 PM   #4
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Default Re: Broken exhaust manifold! not cracked, completely sheared off!

Thank you so much for the quick replies and the assistance. I will be checking out those links. I know the cast iron manifolds can be welded i just dont have much confidence in the spot where it needs welding. Other issue is, i cannot remove the bolts on the flange... because the pipe is just hanging, there is no way for me to get torque onto the bolts, the pipe just flails around and that makes it impossible to turn the bolts. i've tried clamping it, zip tieing it in place, i even used truck tie downs to tie the pipe in place and wrapped the tie down around the entire engine block, nothing stopped the pipe from breaking free once i started applying torque to the ratchet. so that'll be the next issue to address. i'll probably take it to a shop so they can try to get them out with air tools.

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Old 12-26-2013, 01:17 PM   #5
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Default Re: Broken exhaust manifold! not cracked, completely sheared off!

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No, not quite, SL19302. The link states that it's for a 2.2l with "AT" (automatic transmission)
Sorry was unaware the manifolds are different from the automatics to manuals on the L-Series.

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Old 12-26-2013, 09:42 PM   #6
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Default Re: Broken exhaust manifold! not cracked, completely sheared off!

Uh, bad news! You're looking for one of the rarest and most expensive parts you could ever need for your car.

You'll be looking for GM parts because after-market didn't pick up this part at all and the European manifolds from the Vectra do NOT fit. Also, as you've discovered GM did a terrible job of designing and building these North American manifolds.

I managed to find a new one (after months of searching through garbage that wouldn't fit, misinformation, second hand cracked manifolds and various dead ends) for the low, low price of nearly $300.

Here's the thread I had on it at the time:

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=194007

Chris...

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Old 12-26-2013, 10:34 PM   #7
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Default Re: Broken exhaust manifold! not cracked, completely sheared off!

You can try on this site, Some salvage yard in the United States should have a good useable Manual Trans Exhaust Manifold avaliable.

http://www.car-part.com/

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Old 12-27-2013, 01:02 AM   #8
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Default Re: Broken exhaust manifold! not cracked, completely sheared off!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboZutek View Post
Uh, bad news! You're looking for one of the rarest and most expensive parts you could ever need for your car.

Here's the thread I had on it at the time:

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=194007

Chris...
Thank you for chiming in on this one! I meant to use that link first in my post, but didn't double check adequately and used the same one twice.....oh no!!

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Old 12-27-2013, 02:58 PM   #9
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Default Re: Broken exhaust manifold! not cracked, completely sheared off!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboZutek View Post
Uh, bad news! You're looking for one of the rarest and most expensive parts you could ever need for your car.

You'll be looking for GM parts because after-market didn't pick up this part at all and the European manifolds from the Vectra do NOT fit. Also, as you've discovered GM did a terrible job of designing and building these North American manifolds.

I managed to find a new one (after months of searching through garbage that wouldn't fit, misinformation, second hand cracked manifolds and various dead ends) for the low, low price of nearly $300.

Here's the thread I had on it at the time:


Chris...
Where did you end up finding yours?

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Old 12-27-2013, 08:58 PM   #10
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Default Re: Broken exhaust manifold! not cracked, completely sheared off!

Maybe a custom fabricated header at a good exhaust shop would be the most practical solution, if you can't find one used.

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Old 12-28-2013, 01:43 AM   #11
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Default Re: Broken exhaust manifold! not cracked, completely sheared off!

Quote:
Originally Posted by taubry View Post
Where did you end up finding yours?
These guys were the ONLY place I could find it: http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/

A few other sites had it listed and even let me order, but magically no stock when it came time to ship it!

Code:
Exhaust manifold
Make: Saturn
Model: L-Series
Section: EXHAUST SYSTEM
Category: Exhaust manifold
Sub-Category: Exhaust manifold 	1 	$225.69      	$225.69
     
Manifold gasket
Make: Saturn
Model: L-Series
Section: EXHAUST SYSTEM
Category: Exhaust manifold
Sub-Category: Exhaust manifold 	1 	$4.81      	$4.81
I hope you can find one cheaper, or a good one in a scrap yard. I personally wouldn't fit a used manifold, they are such an awful design and horribly fragile, the act of removing it and refitting it is probably enough to give you some fractures if not straight away then soon after. Many of the small cracks in mine opened up into giant ones on removal.

Good luck !

Chris...

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Old 12-29-2013, 11:53 AM   #12
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Default Re: Broken exhaust manifold! not cracked, completely sheared off!

I would like to truly thank all of you for your help. i am going to call Lou's custom exhaust on monday and have them fab me some headers. the only issue i could see is the air pump, but im sure they can make it work. it'll probably cost just as much as a stock manifold but will have greater integrity and i wont have to worry about it.

thanks again, i'll let you know how it goes!

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Old 12-30-2013, 11:39 AM   #13
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Default Re: Broken exhaust manifold! not cracked, completely sheared off!

So there is not a single exhaust shop in NH or Mass who can fabricate headers/ manifold for me. spent all morning calling, no one can do it. on top of that i slid at slow speed into an ice bank during a snow storm last night and must have thrown my camber or bent something because now my car attempts to throw me through the window everytime i let go of the steering wheel ( swerving to the right at alarming speed) and my ps is intermittent. stated to have a GM induced headache!!

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Old 12-30-2013, 04:40 PM   #14
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Default Re: Broken exhaust manifold! not cracked, completely sheared off!

I'm not sure why anyone would suggest anyone can easily fabricate a header out of the blue when there are technical dimensions that make any scratch built header more complex than just conjuring one up on a whim.........................

If this header is cast iron then someone skilled in welding should be able to weld the broken pieces back together as long as there's enough meat left (material) to work with. Heck, an even simpler repair if you have the parts laid out on a bench; brazing without welding. The high temperatures used to braze parts are still higher than exhaust temps and won't melt the brazed repair.

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Old 12-31-2013, 03:31 PM   #15
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Default Re: Broken exhaust manifold! not cracked, completely sheared off!

I got some expert opinions from some welders and fabricators, they said the grey cast iron used on the manifold would make a repair expensive and unreliable. The first guy predicted that getting the manifold to welding temperature would probably weaken the whole structure of what remains.

I was looking to go the repair route at first, but the consensus was it wouldn't work well, sadly.

Chris...

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Old 12-31-2013, 07:46 PM   #16
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Default Re: Broken exhaust manifold! not cracked, completely sheared off!

Cast iron not a good candidate for welding? I didn't know that. I'll try to remember this.

Would brazing work here on this piece? I wouldn't ask if I wasn't willing to do this myself if I were in this predicament. If a non flex pipe were used or the exhaust system were not hung from rubber isolators, a rigid exhaust system would rattle apart sooner from normal engine movement in its mounts unless restored to original configuration using a flex pipe and rubbers to allow a certain amount of flexing to minimize stress cracks, similar to what occurred here.

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Old 01-01-2014, 02:40 AM   #17
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Default Re: Broken exhaust manifold! not cracked, completely sheared off!

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Cast iron not a good candidate for welding? I didn't know that. I'll try to remember this.
The way I was told was that good quality cast iron in a low stress environment like your granny's stove is an excellent candidate for skilful welding. Cheap, nasty, badly formed grey cast iron on a high stress item like an exhaust header is a very bad candidate, it seems.

A few of the guys would try it but none could guarantee it would last more than a couple of days of use. Three out of five guys I brought the problem to laughed and all of them mocked the quality of the original item quite freely comparing it (quite rightly) to dog excrement in terms of overall quality.

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Would brazing work here on this piece? I wouldn't ask if I wasn't willing to do this myself if I were in this predicament.
I debated it, as I could probably do it myself but again the advice was that low quality grey cast is a very poor candidate for ANY kind of weld or braze.

Braze is particularly hard as those supersonic exhaust gases like to tear the edges apart, working their way under and failing the join. The braze also heats and cools at a very different rate to the original metal, hastening fracturing.

Sounded good enough to me, so I just said 'screw it' and bought a whole new part.

Chris...

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Old 01-01-2014, 01:13 PM   #18
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Default Re: Broken exhaust manifold! not cracked, completely sheared off!

saturn used parts store has one they will sell for $150.00. i wish i had an option other than replacing it with the same exact part, as the quality is obviously awful, but i suppose i have no choice

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Old 01-01-2014, 03:39 PM   #19
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Default Re: Broken exhaust manifold! not cracked, completely sheared off!

$150 for a USED piece of low quality metal? What a f--ing rip off.

But, they have you by the short and curlies I guess.

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Old 01-04-2014, 11:24 AM   #20
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Default Re: Broken exhaust manifold! not cracked, completely sheared off!

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$150 for a USED piece of low quality metal? What a f--ing rip off.

But, they have you by the short and curlies I guess.
yeah trust me, i feel that way also. im gong to attempt to haggle the price as its a pretty small company

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