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Old 12-05-2013, 01:29 PM   #1
jasenpeters
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Default Valve Job Advice - 1996 SC2 DOHC

The old 1996 SC2 DOHC (220,000 miles) has been doing well since my last post (2008 clutch change).

A few months ago (Aug 2013) on a long trip from Austin to Houston the engine started running pretty rough at about 100 miles into the trip.

I brought it to a shop and the code and compression check indicated that #4 cylinder (the driver side cylinder), had 10 lbs. of pressure. The remaining valves had pressure in the 190's psi.

From this forum (thank you all), I figured it was a damaged valve.

I pulled the head today and verified that indeed it was an exhaust valve.
#4 cylinder exhaust valve is chipped. (Picture #1)

I found a place (Austin, TX) that would do a "valve job" that includes the following:
$175 - Cleaning, seals replaced, valves bumped or replaced
$45 - Check for cracks
$45 - Resurface head
$11 - per valve replacement ($88 for Exhaust only, $176 for all valves)

Turnaround: 3 days

Does this sound reasonable?

I intend to replace all Exhaust valves.
Should I also replace the Intake valves?

This is only the beginning and I will have more questions as I continue the process.

Thanks in Advance.
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File Type: jpg 1996SC2_Cylinder_#4.jpg (136.7 KB, 36 views)

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Old 12-05-2013, 02:39 PM   #2
billysvue
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Default Re: Valve Job Advice - 1996 SC2 DOHC

3 angle grind??????

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Old 12-05-2013, 03:04 PM   #3
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Default Re: Valve Job Advice - 1996 SC2 DOHC

They are always the supposed 3 angle grind.


Just replace the burned valve and get the rest of it. You may lose a couple more in the deal but no reason to throw away good ones. The real problem is to figure out what caused the valve to burn out. Possible low fuel pressure (45-51psi) or dirty injectors, or EGR leaking. What the cause may be depends on what brand of gas you buy and what maintenance has been done.

How fast were you driving when the valve burned out. It is not chipped, it is burned.

Quoted price may be a bit high but if they do quality work I would pay it a saving 25.00 is not that big of a deal and it sounds like that price includes the seals which are about 30.00 alone.

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Old 12-05-2013, 03:15 PM   #4
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Default Re: Valve Job Advice - 1996 SC2 DOHC

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
They are always the supposed 3 angle grind.


Just replace the burned valve and get the rest of it. You may lose a couple more in the deal but no reason to throw away good ones. The real problem is to figure out what caused the valve to burn out. Possible low fuel pressure (45-51psi) or dirty injectors, or EGR leaking. What the cause may be depends on what brand of gas you buy and what maintenance has been done.
Would excessive lean (low fuel pressure) or incomplete combustion (dirty injectors) result in a rich/lean DTC?

-Robert

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Old 12-05-2013, 03:44 PM   #5
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Default Re: Valve Job Advice - 1996 SC2 DOHC

Not usually, it all depends on how fast he was going and how hot it was at the time. It is hot in Texas in August and Austin to Houston can simulate a race track. High speed and high temperature can get you a lean mixture with no warning and by design #4 runs hotter than the other 3 cylinders.

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Old 12-05-2013, 03:56 PM   #6
jasenpeters
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Default Re: Valve Job Advice - 1996 SC2 DOHC

Old Nuc, what did you mean by...
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post

Just replace the burned valve and get the rest of it. You may lose a couple more in the deal but no reason to throw away good ones.
At the very least, I intend to replace all of the exhaust valves, cost is not a problem. The car has 220 k miles with no previous valve work - I would assume that the remaining exhaust valves are near the end of their life.
Are there any good reasons to NOT replace all of them?
I am ok with not replacing the intake valves unless the shop finds a problem and they need replacing.

As far as why it may have happened, unfortunately at the time the car was burning oil at a higher rate than the past 5-6 years, which was burning a quart about every 1000 miles. In the past year, the rate seems to have increased to a quart about every 500 miles. I did replace the EGR valve with new gasket about 5 years ago and no codes have popped up since the replacement.

Thanks so much for your help, I will keep you updated. More questions to come upon reassembly.

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Old 12-05-2013, 04:02 PM   #7
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Default Re: Valve Job Advice - 1996 SC2 DOHC

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
Not usually, it all depends on how fast he was going and how hot it was at the time. It is hot in Texas in August and Austin to Houston can simulate a race track. High speed and high temperature can get you a lean mixture with no warning and by design #4 runs hotter than the other 3 cylinders.
Thanks for the info about #4 burning hotter by design.
About 5 years ago when I was working on the EGR valve I cleaned the fuel injectors and the throttle body components, and checked the intake sensors.

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Old 12-05-2013, 04:06 PM   #8
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Default Re: Valve Job Advice - 1996 SC2 DOHC

Would not hurt to repeat that maintenance and get the fuel pressure checked, bring back real numbers not some vague "its OK" written on a work order. Those valves do not wear out from age and if they are actually bad they will replace them as required.

High oil consumption does not help either. You may want to consider just overhauling the entire engine as you are about half done already.

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Old 12-06-2013, 04:33 AM   #9
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Default Re: Valve Job Advice - 1996 SC2 DOHC

Can a "rebuild" be done with the block in the engine compartment?
Any references to a rebuild would be helpful, I'll search around too, but there may be some choice ones out there.

I was considering replacing the front seal at least.
Also, I'm looking into the piston mod (drilling holes in the oil ring slot) to
reduce oil consumption.

I will have to weigh the options (time, money, tools, etc) on a rebuild, but will consider it significantly.

Could the front and rear seals be replaced with block in compartment?

To be continued....

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Old 12-06-2013, 10:31 AM   #10
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Default Re: Valve Job Advice - 1996 SC2 DOHC

Could it be "rebuilt" in the car? Maybe, it depends on what you are calling a "rebuild". However,it would probably be more effort and expense than pulling the engine out.

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Old 12-06-2013, 01:04 PM   #11
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Default Re: Valve Job Advice - 1996 SC2 DOHC

Front yes, rear no, impractical.
Rebuild links. Pay close attention to the cboss remove/replace method.
These 2 threads point out what can go wrong and some things that were overlooked. The problem with ehunters rebuild is the rebuilt head was crap which took almost a year to figure out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jasenpeters View Post
Can a "rebuild" be done with the block in the engine compartment?
Any references to a rebuild would be helpful, I'll search around too, but there may be some choice ones out there.

I was considering replacing the front seal at least.
Also, I'm looking into the piston mod (drilling holes in the oil ring slot) to
reduce oil consumption.

I will have to weigh the options (time, money, tools, etc) on a rebuild, but will consider it significantly.

Could the front and rear seals be replaced with block in compartment?

To be continued....

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Old 12-06-2013, 01:33 PM   #12
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Default Re: Valve Job Advice - 1996 SC2 DOHC

Would it not be cheaper/easier to buy a already rebuilt head from one of those sellers on ebay? or is that not a good idea?

I found this pretty quickly..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SATURN-1-9-S...8b987e&vxp=mtr

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Old 12-06-2013, 05:14 PM   #13
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Default Re: Valve Job Advice - 1996 SC2 DOHC

The quality of eBay rebuilt heads is poor*. If you can not get one rebuilt locally you will be better off just buying a decent looking used head from a good J/Y.

* poor = incorrect assembly and very high failure rate.

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Old 12-06-2013, 05:54 PM   #14
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Default Re: Valve Job Advice - 1996 SC2 DOHC

I would take the current head that was on the car to your local machine shop and let them service it right there in your home town, Buying parts online is a crap shoot especially one that requires dismantling half the engine to replace, If the Ebay head has a problem youll have to do the job all over again its not worth the risk, Just get yours repaired.

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Old 12-07-2013, 01:46 PM   #15
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Default Re: Valve Job Advice - 1996 SC2 DOHC

Not to worry y'all.
I brought it to a local shop on Thurs. It should be ready next week.

BTW, I got the Fel-Pro gasket set for about $180.00. Too late now, but is that reasonable ?
Gasket kit includes: Head, Valve, manifolds, egr, water pump, etc. the whole shebang


Timing chain questions coming soon....

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Old 12-07-2013, 02:08 PM   #16
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Default Re: Valve Job Advice - 1996 SC2 DOHC

Basically that sounds OK. RockAuto is pretty much the general benchmark on prices.

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Old 12-08-2013, 07:57 PM   #17
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Default Re: Valve Job Advice - 1996 SC2 DOHC

Is the machine shop doing anything to the other half of the head? It might be a good idea to replace/rebuild the lifters, new cam bearings and possibly swap in an intake cam in place of the old exhaust one while they are in there. Just food for thought....

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