SaturnFans.com
what's new (beta) - classifieds - forums - photos


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn Vue > Vue Tech
Register FAQ Members List Groups Calendar Chat Room Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-17-2013, 11:16 AM   #1
lemsauto
New Member
lemsauto will become famous soon enoughlemsauto will become famous soon enough
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 6
Default Problems after hooking up throttle body and fuel injectors backwards.

2002 Saturn Vue 2.2

Just replaced the motor with one out of a 2006 Saturn Ion. After hooking everything back up the new motor would not start. After searching these forums I found out that I had hooked up the throttle body and the fuel injectors backwards. (They have the same plugins) The car does start now but it has a rough idle that smooths out when reved up. It also shows reduced power and will not go over 3500 rpm and the check engine light is on but shows no codes when scanned. I read somewhere on the forums that the throttle body valve should move a little when you turn the key on but mine doesn't move at all.

Should I replace the throttle body or is there any way to test is prior to replacing?

What all could I have damaged by hooking up the wires wrong?

Any help is greatly appreciated as I'm not sure what to test or where to go from here.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to lemsauto's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help lemsauto reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
lemsauto is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 04-17-2013, 11:40 AM   #2
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant future
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 29,431
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Problems after hooking up throttle body and fuel injectors backwards.

There are threads about calibrating throttle but basically all you have to do is turn on ignition (engine off) without touching the pedal, wait 30 seconds for throttle/pcm to enter an automatic throttle calibration routine that moves the throttle plate a little as the position sensor tells the pcm throttle plate position, all taking less than a minute. Then cycle ignition off before starting and driving. Throttle position is relearned as if replaced, repaired, whatever, when ignition is left on beyond 30 seconds and does no harm at any other time when not needed.

Since the engine runs after the mix up, it won't be fully known until performing this throttle calibration procedure and running the engine for a few days. Remember, you replaced the engine too and this may be another issue in addition to miswiring. Sit back and observe after the throttle calibration and see.

The replacement engine; new plugs, oil, filter, compression?

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to fdryer's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help fdryer reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
fdryer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2013, 12:13 PM   #3
lemsauto
New Member
lemsauto will become famous soon enoughlemsauto will become famous soon enough
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 6
Default Re: Problems after hooking up throttle body and fuel injectors backwards.

Thanks for the quick response.

I just tried the throttle relearn procedure as you described. Unfortunately nothing changed.

I was told that the replacement motor was running good when I bought it. We have replaced spark plugs and oil. Oil had gas in it from all the starting attempts. Have not checked compression yet, I dont think thats my problem (I HOPE that no my problem) but i'll check just to be sure.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to lemsauto's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help lemsauto reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
lemsauto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2013, 06:23 PM   #4
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant future
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 29,431
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Problems after hooking up throttle body and fuel injectors backwards.

Its guessing if anything was damaged with crossed connections. The least that can be done is to check all fuses. Vues have been causing problems with error codes not showing on readers. You may have to try several readers before codes are displayed. Error codes are stored for display when the SES light is on but Vues seem not to want to give up codes.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to fdryer's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help fdryer reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
fdryer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2013, 09:27 PM   #5
lemsauto
New Member
lemsauto will become famous soon enoughlemsauto will become famous soon enough
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 6
Default Re: Problems after hooking up throttle body and fuel injectors backwards.

Is it possible to meter out the wires going to the throttle body? I'm new to the drive by wire stuff but I would imagine that the ECM sends a voltage to open or close the valve and maybe reads the resistance to see where to valve is???

Maybe that would help me narrow it down to the ECM or throttle body.

Btw I watched the valve during the relearn cycle and it never moved.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to lemsauto's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help lemsauto reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
lemsauto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2013, 10:35 PM   #6
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant future
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 29,431
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Problems after hooking up throttle body and fuel injectors backwards.

Without a wiring diagram, its difficult to know which wires are signals, feedback, and power. Drive-by-wire throttles use a special servo motor that only runs when its needed to move something, in this case rotate the throttle plate. Once a servo motor is powered to run it moves while two position sensors provides feedback to tell the pcm throttle position. As soon as the throttle plate position matches pedal position the ecm shuts off servo motor power otherwise the throttle continues to open. This pedal position to pcm to throttle plate movement and feedback continues until the throttle position sensors match pedal position until the pedal moves again. This is a closed loop circuit of basic robotics. The servo motor isn't measured as there's nothing to measure. You'd need a course of electronics to understand servo motor operation with position sensors tied to a computer that controls the servo motor.

The missing calibration routine uses the same wiring as used when pressing the pedal to make the throttle plate open/close. Unfortunately, something is faulty with throttle, pcm or wiring. Did you try pressing the pedal slowly (ignition ON engine OFF) and observing throttle plate opening to match pedal travel? And then you'd have to consider injectors may be a problem or more specifically, the pcm that drives each injector may be faulty.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to fdryer's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help fdryer reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
fdryer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2013, 12:00 PM   #7
lemsauto
New Member
lemsauto will become famous soon enoughlemsauto will become famous soon enough
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 6
Default Re: Problems after hooking up throttle body and fuel injectors backwards.

I was able to borrow a better scan tool and get the codes. It's showing P1515 control module throttle actuator position performance.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to lemsauto's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help lemsauto reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
lemsauto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2013, 12:42 PM   #8
vasy
Advanced Member
vasy is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 699

2007 VUE Green Line
2008 Astra XE
Default Re: Problems after hooking up throttle body and fuel injectors backwards.

Try to place your old TB and see if it works better.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to vasy's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help vasy reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
vasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2013, 01:27 PM   #9
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant future
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 29,431
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Problems after hooking up throttle body and fuel injectors backwards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lemsauto View Post
I was able to borrow a better scan tool and get the codes. It's showing P1515 control module throttle actuator position performance.
This new wrinkle coupled with your first post observations (reduced power mode/engine not able to go beyond 3500 rpm) suggests one of the two throttle position sensors may have been damaged from the crossed connections. A replacement throttle is most likely needed. If/when you find another throttle actuator, run throttle calibration to be sure throttle works then follow up with someone pressing the gas pedal while you observe throttle plate movement before starting up.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to fdryer's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help fdryer reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
fdryer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 03:54 PM   #10
lemsauto
New Member
lemsauto will become famous soon enoughlemsauto will become famous soon enough
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 6
Default Re: Problems after hooking up throttle body and fuel injectors backwards.

FIXED
Replaced the throttle body and now car runs great.

Thanks for all the help. This is a great forum.

For anyone in the same situation if you hook up the throttle body and fuel injector harness backwards it will kill the throttle body. The throttle body should get a 5 volt reference voltage and the fuel injectors get 12 volts. The difference in voltage is enough to fry the throttle body.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to lemsauto's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help lemsauto reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
lemsauto is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fuel Leaking at Throttle Body jappareti S-Series Tech 10 09-20-2011 12:55 PM
Throttle Body/Injectors Jawny125 S-Series Mods 16 11-11-2010 09:18 AM
Throttle Body problems djwirthless L-Series Tech 4 03-13-2008 10:34 AM
Throttle Body and Fuel Injector Cleaner beensmoked L-Series General 3 09-08-2006 02:03 AM
HELP! sw2-fuel running out throttle body? ndsaturn S-Series General 15 08-01-2005 10:19 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:30 AM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.