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Old 03-09-2013, 04:13 AM   #1
AstraLover
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Default Need help (transmission/clutch)

So I have posted a few times and now ill try one last time in desperation. I am attempting to get a new clutch but gm wants 1350$ for the parts alone. I can have a custom stage 1 clutch made for 1100$ through excedy. But if I can find a clutch kit in Europe for under those prices it would help alot. Appearantly our transmission is a F17. If anyone can help me do research it would help so much.

...
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Old 03-09-2013, 06:40 PM   #2
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Default Re: Need help (transmission/clutch)

Alright, so this is the point that I have gotten to. Our motor/transmission combination is not exactly clear with the information that I have gathered.

According to the European parts guide, there are two different clutch and pressure plate options, with one clutch and pressure plate set being up to engine #20KC3240, and the other #20KC3241 and above. This is where it gets a little confusing. It seems as though there is the smallest of difference between the two, and that is regarding what the flywheel depth is. I honestly have no idea what that means. For the first set, the flywheel is 19mm deep, and the other set is 21mm deep. I am hoping someone else can chime in on this. I tried looking for numbers on my engine, and the closest one if found in that format was 20LT1205, and that was on a sticker on the plastic timing belt cover. I am not sure where else to look on the engine.

Our clutch is at least this: 8 1/14 inch (205mm) OD with 14 teeth. The ZF Group (Sachs) catalog also quotes an ID of 47/64". The catalog also has the part number for the clutch kit as: K70521-01. I personally can't find it anywhere on the net in stock.

Rock auto has a good list of available options, but the ones that you want are either the top two (National Clutch) or the bottom two (Sachs)in this list.
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,ca...,parttype,1993

I also came across some on eBay for about $85-$90.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-CLUTCH...item56457a6f62
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CLUTCH-KIT...item484b070626

Finding this information out is important to me, as I have a manual transmission too. Either way, if you bought both of them, you will still be much farther ahead than what the dealer is quoting you.

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Old 03-09-2013, 07:01 PM   #3
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Default Re: Need help (transmission/clutch)

Currently astralavista and are investigating as we'll I'm hoping he will put his input in here. I got the part codes for the parts needed from gm ( I'm persuasive):



1)Release Cylinder 90523769
2)Friction Plate 93192580
3)pressure plate 55562026

AstralaVista seems to think if we can get our engine number we will be able to find clutches out if Europe.

Thanks for helping phatfire. Hopefully we can solve this issue and save all manual transmission Astras ! Haha

...
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Old 03-09-2013, 07:06 PM   #4
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Default Re: Need help (transmission/clutch)

Quote:
Originally Posted by phatfire6 View Post
Alright, so this is the point that I have gotten to. Our motor/transmission combination is not exactly clear with the information that I have gathered.

According to the European parts guide, there are two different clutch and pressure plate options, with one clutch and pressure plate set being up to engine #20KC3240, and the other #20KC3241 and above. This is where it gets a little confusing. It seems as though there is the smallest of difference between the two, and that is regarding what the flywheel depth is. I honestly have no idea what that means. For the first set, the flywheel is 19mm deep, and the other set is 21mm deep. I am hoping someone else can chime in on this. I tried looking for numbers on my engine, and the closest one if found in that format was 20LT1205, and that was on a sticker on the plastic timing belt cover. I am not sure where else to look on the engine.

Our clutch is at least this: 8 1/14 inch (205mm) OD with 14 teeth. The ZF Group (Sachs) catalog also quotes an ID of 47/64". The catalog also has the part number for the clutch kit as: K70521-01. I personally can't find it anywhere on the net in stock.

Rock auto has a good list of available options, but the ones that you want are either the top two (National Clutch) or the bottom two (Sachs)in this list.
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,ca...,parttype,1993

I also came across some on eBay for about $85-$90.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-CLUTCH...item56457a6f62
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CLUTCH-KIT...item484b070626

Finding this information out is important to me, as I have a manual transmission too. Either way, if you bought both of them, you will still be much farther ahead than what the dealer is quoting you.
The flywheel depth is about 2.6mm different between the early and late. The likely difference is in the pressure plate being designed differently to accomidate the distance. Here's a PDF explaining things. Since the PDF states that the change in design took place in May 2007, I'm 99% certain that our cars fall into the "late" category. The number from your timing belt label is pretty good evidence of this, but I believe the number is also physically stamped on a flat machined area on the side of the block that should be "relatively" easy to inspect from above or below without removing anything like the starter, etc.

This LuK set sells for about $367 USD and is for the disc and pressure plate only.

This Luk set sells for over $606 USD but includes the slave cylinder & throw out bearing.

Be wary of any eBay purchases. I would strongly advise that you contact the seller directly because often times, these eBay listings are poorly written and can contain mistakes. You'll want the late style for an Astra H and our Z18XER engines. The first listing is for the early style and mentions the correct part number for the later style. Clicking the "Buy" option will likely put the early style in your cart. The second listing is just really hard to read, and specifying "Opel Astra H 1.8L" shows nothing, yet specifying "Vauxhall 1.8L Mk V" shows that it fits (but it apparently doesn't fit the "1.8L 16V").

...
"That's a Hruck Bugbear, manufactured in Eastern Europe in the eighties and imported to the States. People mock it as a poor man's Yugo. I consider it the pinnacle of Cold War Balkan engineering."

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Old 03-09-2013, 07:40 PM   #5
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Default Re: Need help (transmission/clutch)

Is there a specific car I can search a clutch for ? I cannot find the number on my motor at all I looked forever. It's a 2009 model so it was only manufactured in Canada ? Is this true

...
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Old 03-09-2013, 08:17 PM   #6
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Default Re: Need help (transmission/clutch)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AstraLover View Post
Is there a specific car I can search a clutch for ? I cannot find the number on my motor at all I looked forever. It's a 2009 model so it was only manufactured in Canada ? Is this true
Only available in Canada (not manufactured). They had too many 2008 models still sitting around on the docks unsold in the USA for them to bother ordering any 2009 models.

...
"That's a Hruck Bugbear, manufactured in Eastern Europe in the eighties and imported to the States. People mock it as a poor man's Yugo. I consider it the pinnacle of Cold War Balkan engineering."

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Old 03-09-2013, 08:44 PM   #7
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Default Re: Need help (transmission/clutch)

So we are 100% sure what kind of clutch we need? Can I begin searching ? I am still unsure what exactly to search

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Old 03-10-2013, 04:40 PM   #8
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Default Re: Need help (transmission/clutch)

Okay, now that I have that little bit of information about the flywheel, I have been able to 100% confirm that our Astras came equipped with the deeper flywheel setup (21mm, part #93186460). This means that these parts are compatible with our car, from RockAuto.com:


NATIONAL CLUTCH AND BRAKE Part # CK9912 Diameter [mm]: 205; Contents : Cover, Plate
Eng. Code [Z 18 XER], Model Series (H) Hatchback; Eng. Code [Z 18 XER], Model Series (H) Estate; From Engine Number: 20KC3241; For flywheel depth [mm]: 21
$82.79

and for the clutch slave cylinder:

NATIONAL CLUTCH AND BRAKE Part # NSC0010
eng code [Z 18 XE], Model Series (H) Hatchback; eng code [Z 18 XE], Model Series (H) Estate; eng code [Z 18 XER], Model Series (H) Hatchback
$73.79

http://www.national-auto.co.uk/asset...h_2013_jan.pdf

I referenced National's clutch catalog to verify that this combination will work together. So from rockauto, you are looking at $156.58. I did a shipping quote to my area, and it came to $63.12 for a total of $219.70. Given that I have written this as $, I do believe it to be in with a more realistic cost of around $330, but that would be a deal if it is actually in $!

For an eBay special, this one will fit, but you'll still need the CSC: 59.25 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CLUTCH-KIT...item484b070626

Based on further information, it is absolutely recommended to change out the CSC (central slave cylinder) whenever changing out the clutch, as they are both wear items.

I came across some LuK products. It seems that they are the "premium" brand for clutch products. The LuK part number for the clutch kit is 621305033, which includes the CSC. The standalone CSC part number is 510007310; two piece clutch kit w/out CSC is 621305009. Haven't really searched to see if you can get a better price by buying them separately. Astra La Vista! posted a good link above. I have found some others, if you wanted to shop around.

Amazon - 448.92
http://www.amazon.co.uk/LUK-62130503.../dp/B00AJXK3VO

Bestpartstore - 301.98
http://www.bestpartstore.co.uk/971851

For SACHS - the clutch kit that you will need is part #3000951073 and the CSC part # is 3182998803. The search is futile, as the CSC is kinda hard to find, and I can only find one on ebay, and direct hits for the clutch kit is very minimal as well. Rockauto sells the clutch kit, but they only have one left in stock.

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Old 03-10-2013, 08:12 PM   #9
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Default Re: Need help (transmission/clutch)

Quote:
Originally Posted by phatfire6 View Post
NATIONAL CLUTCH AND BRAKE Part # CK9912 Diameter [mm]: 205; Contents : Cover, Plate
Eng. Code [Z 18 XER], Model Series (H) Hatchback; Eng. Code [Z 18 XER], Model Series (H) Estate; From Engine Number: 20KC3241; For flywheel depth [mm]: 21
$82.79

and for the clutch slave cylinder:

NATIONAL CLUTCH AND BRAKE Part # NSC0010
eng code [Z 18 XE], Model Series (H) Hatchback; eng code [Z 18 XE], Model Series (H) Estate; eng code [Z 18 XER], Model Series (H) Hatchback
$73.79

http://www.national-auto.co.uk/asset...h_2013_jan.pdf

I referenced National's clutch catalog to verify that this combination will work together. So from rockauto, you are looking at $156.58. I did a shipping quote to my area, and it came to $63.12 for a total of $219.70. Given that I have written this as $, I do believe it to be in with a more realistic cost of around $330, but that would be a deal if it is actually in $!
Currency selection is located up near the top on the check-out page. $239.13 CAD shipped to Canada (eg: Vancouver), or $219.70 USD shipped to the USA (eg: LA). Definitely DOLLARS!

I gave up on that site because it showed no listing under "Saturn", and the "Opel" and "Vauxhall" listings end in 1975 and 1963! Punching in those part numbers directly worked, however.

Also, the Amazon.co.uk link doesn't ship to Canada (although they still might ship to the US), and the bestpartstore.co,uk doesn't ship to North America at all. Kind of moot points, however, since National is a recognized international brand (maybe not as well known as LuK), so why pay 2-3 times the price?

...
"That's a Hruck Bugbear, manufactured in Eastern Europe in the eighties and imported to the States. People mock it as a poor man's Yugo. I consider it the pinnacle of Cold War Balkan engineering."

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Old 03-10-2013, 08:40 PM   #10
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Default Re: Need help (transmission/clutch)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astra La Vista! View Post

I gave up on that site because it showed no listing under "Saturn", and the "Opel" and "Vauxhall" listings end in 1975 and 1963! Punching in those part numbers directly worked, however.
I see what you missed. You have to click this tiny ass button that is easily missed.
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Old 03-10-2013, 09:22 PM   #11
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Default Re: Need help (transmission/clutch)

Ok so what I need is

Clutch disk, friction plate, release bearing/cylinder.

Now is there one that has all 3 because there's so many links I'm getting a little list hahahaha

...
Ryan

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Old 03-10-2013, 10:21 PM   #12
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Default Re: Need help (transmission/clutch)

I'm getting confused**** sorry damn iphones

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Old 03-13-2013, 02:14 AM   #13
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Default Re: Need help (transmission/clutch)

Phat you said the luk clutc kit comes with everything I need , correct? Do you have a link for it. I need to get the clutch done asap

...
Ryan

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Old 03-13-2013, 02:25 AM   #14
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Default Re: Need help (transmission/clutch)

I don't know, I've posted the correct one a few times for this guy. Makes Forteforums.com look like a bunch of Harvard Scholars. This guy seriously has like 3 threads on one topic.

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Old 03-13-2013, 08:41 AM   #15
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Default Re: Need help (transmission/clutch)

Yeah I made three because I'm trying to find the right parts. Don't want to toss away 600$. Needed to make a thread that people would make valid points as to which clutch is needed.

...
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Old 03-13-2013, 08:48 AM   #16
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Default Re: Need help (transmission/clutch)

I did. Same transmission on one side, same engine on the other. They literally took about 26,000 Opel Astras, put Saturn badges on them, made things more difficult for us to work on, and put them on a ship. The mechanicals stayed the same. You need a clutch for an Opel Astra with 1.8 and an F17 transmission. Simple stuff, and I've already told you this.

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Old 03-13-2013, 01:11 PM   #17
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Default Re: Need help (transmission/clutch)

Quote:
Originally Posted by phatfire6 View Post
I see what you missed. You have to click this tiny ass button that is easily missed.
Well that certainly helps!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AstraLover View Post
Yeah I made three because I'm trying to find the right parts. Don't want to toss away 600$. Needed to make a thread that people would make valid points as to which clutch is needed.
Pmail sent. While there might be a small possibility of finding a complete three-piece kit for less money than purchasing the slave cylinder separately from the disc & plate, I haven't been able to find it. Just use the two part National part numbers provided (CK9912 and NSC0010) at the RockAuto website. Even with shipping, everything is less than $250 -- and that's a third or a quarter the price of what the dealer might charge.

...
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Old 03-13-2013, 01:43 PM   #18
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Default Re: Need help (transmission/clutch)

I just pm you again. Yeah I dot mind buying them separate its like one sixth of the price haha.

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Old 03-13-2013, 02:50 PM   #19
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Default Re: Need help (transmission/clutch)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vanilla sky View Post
I did. Same transmission on one side, same engine on the other. They literally took about 26,000 Opel Astras, put Saturn badges on them, made things more difficult for us to work on, and put them on a ship. The mechanicals stayed the same. You need a clutch for an Opel Astra with 1.8 and an F17 transmission. Simple stuff, and I've already told you this.
It is not so simple as that vanilla sky. For whatever reason, Opel fitted the z18xer and z18xe with different clutches and pressure plates, while still using the same clutch slave cylinders and flywheels for model years up until 2007. From then on, they all used the same components. Simply shopping online for parts that you are uncertain about is a pain in the ass, especially when there is conflicting posts saying whatever clutch will not work in our cars. All clutch packages for engine numbers lower than 20KC3241 will not work on our cars due to differences between the OEM flywheel.

Common sense in vehicle maintenance says: same transmission, same engine - must work. However, have you ever gone through the pain of accidentally ordering the wrong part just to have to bring it back to the store for the right one? Compound this with the fact that people are dropping some serious cash down without the ability to easily return the parts if the incorrect one was ordered?

What I am saying is - I agree with you. Take your pick, a clutch package for for a Z18xe or Z18xer, they will both work, as long as it is designed for the deeper flywheel of engines > 20KC3241.

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Old 03-13-2013, 03:01 PM   #20
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Default Re: Need help (transmission/clutch)

I haven't been burned by ordering the wrong part, but I've been sent the wrong part several times. I've also gotten bad batches of parts. Went through 4 ignition modules at an Advance store before walking back out with my money.

This is NOT a car you're going to want if you are looking to be cheap. Think MB parts costs with similar reliability. You're not going to want to hold onto this car if a $600 clutch job scares you.

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