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Old 02-23-2013, 03:06 AM   #1
andrewwellen
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Default Is Dexron 6 a suitable replacement for Dexron 3 transmission fluid?

95 SC1- I changed my tranny fluid and filter today. The manual says use dexron 3 fluid. The GM dealership told me that all they have is Dexron 6 and that it is a suitable replacement. It is AC Delco Dexron 6. Is this a suitable fluid for my transmission?

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Old 02-23-2013, 07:11 AM   #2
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Default Re: Is Dexron 6 a suitable replacement for Dexron 3 transmission fluid?

I was curious myself and read in some google searches that apparently yes, 6 is compatible all the way back to 3. 6 came out in 2006.

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Old 02-23-2013, 08:15 AM   #3
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Default Re: Is Dexron 6 a suitable replacement for Dexron 3 transmission fluid?

NO. Dexron VI is NOT compatible with Saturn transmissions.

It is, in most cases, a suitable replacement for Dexron III, however, that is not the case with Saturns. Even GM figured that out. Look at the back of a GM bottle of Dex VI. You'll see that it specifically says that it is not compatible with Saturn transmissions.

See: http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/sho...om-b/cat/12963

There are plenty of Dex III compatible automatic transmission fluids and synthetic automatic transmission fluids (highly recommended) at your local auto parts stores. Mobil 1 is a very good option, and readily available, although it is not cheap. For about the same price as Mobil 1, you can order Amsoil Torque Drive fluid, which is far superior to anything you will find at your auto store. (Castrol Transynd is the same thing as Torque Drive; it's often a bit more expensive, but if you find a good deal, it's just as good--Torque Drive was made to be an exact copy of Transynd.) If you're on a stricter budget, there are plenty of cheaper options, but you will need to change the fluid more often, and valve body problems will be more likely.

As far as filters go, Wix is your best bet. You can get them at NAPA (sold as NAPA Gold) and possibly cheaper online (RockAuto, etc). Many of the other filter brands are known for causing problems (insufficient flow and/or leaks).

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Old 02-23-2013, 08:22 AM   #4
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Default Re: Is Dexron 6 a suitable replacement for Dexron 3 transmission fluid?

So what should I do? I already put the dexron 6 in my tranny. I don't know if it is safe to do a tranny flush, 163,000 miles. Should I order some dex 3 compatible fluid and drain and fill a few times? Will it harm my tranny to drive around with the dex 6 for a week or so, and how many times do I need to drain and fill to get enough of the dex 6 out?

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Old 02-23-2013, 08:33 AM   #5
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Default Re: Is Dexron 6 a suitable replacement for Dexron 3 transmission fluid?

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewwellen View Post
So what should I do? I already put the dexron 6 in my tranny. I don't know if it is safe to do a tranny flush, 163,000 miles. Should I order some dex 3 compatible fluid and drain and fill a few times? Will it harm my tranny to drive around with the dex 6 for a week or so, and how many times do I need to drain and fill to get enough of the dex 6 out?
Draining and filling it twice should get enough of the Dex VI fluid out, I think. Drain the cooler, each time, by disconnecting the quick disconnect lines at the transmission (you gently press in plastic tabs, one on each side of the line, and the line will pull out with very little force). Try to park it such that the drain plug is on the lowest corner of the transmission (vehicle sloped back and towards the passenger side), and give it plenty of time to drain (it will keep dripping slowly, for a while). If you're going to change the filter, change it on the first fluid change because at that point it will have 100% of the old fluid in it (the second change it may only be 50% old fluid). You may be able to just pour most of the fluid out of the filter and replace it, but I've never tried that.

If you use the Amsoil or Castrol products I mentioned above, you can extend your change interval significantly (probably forever, as long as you get it sampled occasionally to confirm that it's still good), however, you should still replace your filter every 30k miles or so. At the first filter change, you might want to do one more fluid change, just to get as much of the Dex VI out, as possible.

I don't think any harm will come from driving it for a few days, but you may notice a decrease in shift quality. If it slips, don't drive it, but I don't think that is likely. Just don't beat on it, and be careful not to spin the tires (Saturns are known for differential pins literally flying through the side of the housing, if the tires are spun too much, and it has been theorized that Dex VI will make this more likely).

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Old 02-23-2013, 08:48 AM   #6
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Default Re: Is Dexron 6 a suitable replacement for Dexron 3 transmission fluid?

^^What he said.
Couple of short cycle fluid changes while allowing a 3 - 4 hour drain time will remove 90+ % of the undesired fluid. The extended drain time will allow about 1/2 of the torque converter to drain.

Torque-Drive or Tansynd is the way to go as it should only require a periodic filter change for at least 350,000 miles of service.

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Old 02-23-2013, 08:52 AM   #7
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Default Re: Is Dexron 6 a suitable replacement for Dexron 3 transmission fluid?

"NO. Dexron VI is NOT compatible with Saturn transmissions.

It is, in most cases, a suitable replacement for Dexron III, however, that is not the case with Saturns. Even GM figured that out. Look at the back of a GM bottle of Dex VI. You'll see that it specifically says that it is not compatible with Saturn transmissions."

I don't understand how Dexron 6 can be compatible with Dexron 3 but then not compatible with Saturn in which Dexron 3 is ok...I read the label which suggests that power steering systems and manual transmissions are what Dexron 6 is a problem with.

Am I missing something here?

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Old 02-23-2013, 08:55 AM   #8
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Default Re: Is Dexron 6 a suitable replacement for Dexron 3 transmission fluid?

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewwellen View Post
So what should I do? I already put the dexron 6 in my tranny. I don't know if it is safe to do a tranny flush, 163,000 miles. Should I order some dex 3 compatible fluid and drain and fill a few times? Will it harm my tranny to drive around with the dex 6 for a week or so, and how many times do I need to drain and fill to get enough of the dex 6 out?
If it were me, I would just drive it and if there are any issues go to the dealer and tell them what happened. If they sold you the wrong fluid and have any sense of customer service, will correct the situation.

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Old 02-23-2013, 09:49 AM   #9
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Default Re: Is Dexron 6 a suitable replacement for Dexron 3 transmission fluid?

Dex-6 is not certified foe use in any Saturn transmission. The viscosity is too low and most likely also the ultimate film strength. Using it is a lovely way to end up with loose nuts or launched diff pin. If you buy the Dex-6 and subsequently have a failure the dealer will just tell you TS and u can sue for the expense. 15 years later you might win the suit but the cost will be astronomical.

Do. Not. Use. Dex-6. In. Any. Saturn. Transmission!

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Old 02-23-2013, 01:09 PM   #10
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Default Re: Is Dexron 6 a suitable replacement for Dexron 3 transmission fluid?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommie View Post
I don't understand how Dexron 6 can be compatible with Dexron 3 but then not compatible with Saturn in which Dexron 3 is ok...I read the label which suggests that power steering systems and manual transmissions are what Dexron 6 is a problem with.

Am I missing something here?
If you read the rest of the label, you will see that in addition to advising against use in any power steering systems or manual transmissions, it states not to use it in certain Chevrolet, Pontiac, and Saturn vehicles (including the S-Series). It is not talking about just the ps systems and manual transmissions in those vehicles, but rather all ps and manual transmissions as well as all applications in those vehicles.

Dex VI is not really "compatible" with Dex III fluid. It is considerably thinner. Most vehicles that were designed to use Dex III can be filled with Dex VI; in other words, it is compatible with most Dex III applications (except those listed). Certain transmissions do not react well when you use a thinner fluid, and the long-term results are often disastrous (ie. you will need to replace the transmission).

There is nothing "wrong" with Dex VI fluid--from what I hear, it's pretty good, but that doesn't mean you should use it in your car (there are some really good, synthetic, straight 50 weight motor oils, but that doesn't mean you should use them in your car...)

Assuming you intend to keep the car for more than a couple months, do not use Dex VI.

As for the dealer taking care of the repairs... I seriously doubt it. Even if you sue them, which would not be cost effective if you won, you're certainly not guaranteed to win (they have a label telling you specifically NOT to use it in Saturns, if you decide not to read the label, that doesn't make them responsible, even if an employee supposedly told you that you could). (You don't have any proof that they recommended it to you...)

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Old 02-23-2013, 01:29 PM   #11
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Default Re: Is Dexron 6 a suitable replacement for Dexron 3 transmission fluid?

only use mobil1 aft 9.99 per quart for saturn s series or something even better like what old nuc is recommending, jesus i could just post this every other day

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Old 02-23-2013, 01:33 PM   #12
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Default Re: Is Dexron 6 a suitable replacement for Dexron 3 transmission fluid?

I had a slightly noticeable delay in shifting from 2nd to 3rd and when it executed it was not smooth. The rpms where elevated so that made the shift more profound. I put synthetic trans fluid in and everything was fine after that. I had changed the trans filter prior and the trans fluid was a little low about 1/2 - 3/4 qt.

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Old 02-23-2013, 01:33 PM   #13
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Default Re: Is Dexron 6 a suitable replacement for Dexron 3 transmission fluid?

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=157825 read

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Old 02-23-2013, 01:54 PM   #14
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Default Re: Is Dexron 6 a suitable replacement for Dexron 3 transmission fluid?

I'm not sure why people would sue over this.

I would think that if the wrong oil was sold by the dealer that he should at least be given the correct ATF fluid with out having to pay again.

I seriously doubt transmission damage would result from using this Dexron 6 but it would seem despite being Dexron 3 compatible is not Saturn friendly.

Strange, GM no longer supplies the correct ATF fluid for what is a substantial number of vehicles still on the road.

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Old 02-23-2013, 02:02 PM   #15
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Default Re: Is Dexron 6 a suitable replacement for Dexron 3 transmission fluid?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommie View Post
I'm not sure why people would sue over this.

I would think that if the wrong oil was sold by the dealer that he should at least be given the correct ATF fluid with out having to pay again.

I seriously doubt transmission damage would result from using this Dexron 6 but it would seem despite being Dexron 3 compatible is not Saturn friendly.

Strange, GM no longer supplies the correct ATF fluid for what is a substantial number of vehicles still on the road.
The newest Saturn is 11 years old and out of the manufacturer liability window. Part of the GM bailout was the absolution of the present GM(Government Motors) of all previous legal liability for the products of the old GM.

This is real world and you alone are responsible for what happens to your car.

The current crop of Universal Dexron/Mercon compatible ATFs are Dex-3 compatible and Saturn compatible.

The control of the TCC and Line Pressure pulse width is based on an assumed pressure that is based on the known transmission pump curves and the fluid viscosity. When you use a thin fluid these calculations are grossly incorrect and the line pressure starts low and has to ramp up due to the increased slip, every shift. Same with the TCC. This is why you can get into serious trouble performance wise by playing with unmonitored fluid temperature and/or viscosity. Adding an oil cooler downstream of the transmission fluid temperature sensor will also cause weird shifting.

Last edited by OldNuc; 02-23-2013 at 02:08 PM..

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Old 02-23-2013, 02:49 PM   #16
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Default Re: Is Dexron 6 a suitable replacement for Dexron 3 transmission fluid?

"The newest Saturn is 11 years old and out of the manufacturer liability window. Part of the GM bailout was the absolution of the present GM(Government Motors) of all previous legal liability for the products of the old GM."

What about the newer Saturn Astra and numerous Chevrolet and Pontiac vehicles listed in that label?

"This is real world and you alone are responsible for what happens to your car."

I completely agree. I'm not sure why you wrote this and what your point is.

Going back to the dealer and saying you were sold the wrong fluid is what I would do.

Is that unrealistic? What would you do OldNuc?

I'm not the one who started this post but wanted to know more about this Dexron 6 and why you cannot use it with Saturn transmissions.

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Old 02-23-2013, 04:19 PM   #17
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Default Re: Is Dexron 6 a suitable replacement for Dexron 3 transmission fluid?

The Astra is a Chevy with a Saturn (or Opel, or Vauxhall, or Osterizer, or whatever...) badge. Every "Saturn" produced besides the S-Series, including the L-Series, is by greater or lesser extent a rebadge of some other make. The S-Series has only a few token GM parts (MAP sensor, etc); it has nothing significant in common with any GM car. The above-mentioned bailout / consolidation left Saturn owners in the lurch more than any of the other discontinued divisions, for this reason. We can expect as much corporate/dealer support for our cars as any Studebaker owner.

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Old 02-23-2013, 04:37 PM   #18
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Default Re: Is Dexron 6 a suitable replacement for Dexron 3 transmission fluid?

Yes.

The label I was referring to was on the Dexron 6 bottle DO NOT USE list.

So the newer Astra, certain Chevrolet and Pontiac models in addition to the S series is on it.

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Old 02-23-2013, 04:47 PM   #19
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Default Re: Is Dexron 6 a suitable replacement for Dexron 3 transmission fluid?

Because the GM bean squeezers decided that spending the $$ to certify it or not for use in those transmissions was not economically viable.

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Old 02-23-2013, 04:52 PM   #20
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Default Re: Is Dexron 6 a suitable replacement for Dexron 3 transmission fluid?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommie View Post
... Is that unrealistic? What would you do OldNuc?
Turn the package over and read the label and if it was either specifically not recommended or noncommittal I would put it back on the shelf and go do some due diligence on the issue.

I'm not the one who started this post but wanted to know more about this Dexron 6 and why you cannot use it with Saturn transmissions.
Did you read the rest of the post you quoted? Does not sound like it.
In case you missed it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc
The control of the TCC and Line Pressure pulse width is based on an assumed pressure that is based on the known transmission pump curves and the fluid viscosity. When you use a thin fluid these calculations are grossly incorrect and the line pressure starts low and has to ramp up due to the increased slip, every shift. Same with the TCC. This is why you can get into serious trouble performance wise by playing with unmonitored fluid temperature and/or viscosity. Adding an oil cooler downstream of the transmission fluid temperature sensor will also cause weird shifting.

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