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Old 02-02-2013, 11:22 AM   #1
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Question Revs High when Clutch is pushed in

I'm Having a problem if my 95 sl1. When driving with the engine cold whenever I push the clutch in the engine will rev up another 500 rpms before it goes back down to idle. The only time this stops is when the engine warms up (the coolant gauge gets to 1/4). I cleaned the tb and changed the ects just in case but that didn't fix it either. Is this just normal because its cold or is something actually wrong?

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Old 02-02-2013, 11:43 AM   #2
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Default Re: Revs High when Clutch is pushed in

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevster0522 View Post
I'm Having a problem if my 95 sl1. When driving with the engine cold whenever I push the clutch in the engine will rev up another 500 rpms before it goes back down to idle. The only time this stops is when the engine warms up (the coolant gauge gets to 1/4). I cleaned the tb and changed the ects just in case but that didn't fix it either. Is this just normal because its cold or is something actually wrong?
Change your ECTS to a new style brass tip and your thermostat to a Stant 14279 or equiv and check your ECTS wiring for any corosion and/or breaks in the wiring. Your temp should be reading 3/8.

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Old 02-02-2013, 01:29 PM   #3
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Default Re: Revs High when Clutch is pushed in

It does eventually go up to 3/8 it's just that the high revving stops when it gets to around 1/4.

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Old 02-02-2013, 07:24 PM   #4
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Default Re: Revs High when Clutch is pushed in

This picture shows how my temp gauge looks after driving around 20 miles.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Optimized-IMG_0001.JPG (131.8 KB, 25 views)

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Old 02-03-2013, 02:56 AM   #5
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Default Re: Revs High when Clutch is pushed in

Up until 1995 the gauges read a little higher than the newer models. Our '95 read about what your picture shows when it shipped from the factory. Many will tell you this is far too low a temp, but that's what was OEM on our car and never caused issue.

The big issue is how fast the car comes up to temp. If it is taking you 20 miles of driving, you probably have a thermostat and/or ECTS issue. It is normal for the engine idle RPM to stay higher until the engine warms up, but it is not normal for the engine to take a long time to warm up. Depending on outside temps and how you use your heater, the car should come up to at or near full operating temp within a few miles of driving.

You can check for thermostat leaks by feeling the upper hose as the car warms up. If you are sure the ECTS connector is good and things are working, it is likely you have a bad thermostat. If you replace it don't be surprised if your gauge indication moves upward, as some of the earlier cars came with cooler running thermostats.

Do you know if the thermostat has ever been replaced?

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Old 02-03-2013, 04:07 AM   #6
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Default Re: Revs High when Clutch is pushed in

I agree with the above two members ^ ; replace the t-stat. It shouldn't take more than 10 minutes/10 miles to get up to operating temperatures. Replacing the coolant sensor only corrects the faulty original design and correct rich running tendencies. It does not regulate coolant temps. The t-stat does and worn out ones tend to take longer to warm up engines.

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Old 02-03-2013, 11:13 AM   #7
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Default Re: Revs High when Clutch is pushed in

Thanks for all of your replies. I don't know if the thermostat has ever been replaced because I just got the car a year ago and I am the third owner. I replaced the ects and found out that the ects must have been replaced because there was a brass tipped one already in it. I went ahead and replaced it with a new brass tipped one anyway. the connector also looks REALLY clean so I don't think the connector is an issue. I'm glad you guess talked about the time it takes to warm up. I always thought that was just normal. The problem now is I don't have an advanced auto around my place and nobody carries the stant brand so does this napa thermostat work. I've read up a little and people say that the napa t-stat is the same.

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Ca...268_0297183810

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Old 02-03-2013, 12:37 PM   #8
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Default Re: Revs High when Clutch is pushed in

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevster0522 View Post
Thanks for all of your replies. I don't know if the thermostat has ever been replaced because I just got the car a year ago and I am the third owner. I replaced the ects and found out that the ects must have been replaced because there was a brass tipped one already in it. I went ahead and replaced it with a new brass tipped one anyway. the connector also looks REALLY clean so I don't think the connector is an issue. I'm glad you guess talked about the time it takes to warm up. I always thought that was just normal. The problem now is I don't have an advanced auto around my place and nobody carries the stant brand so does this napa thermostat work. I've read up a little and people say that the napa t-stat is the same.

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Ca...268_0297183810
The NAPA unit works just fine, and it what I have in our car. Some say that it is the same as the Stant unit. Mine is without a doubt not the same, but it was purchased years ago. In either case it works just fine.

Unless the units have changed (regardless of who makes it) your operating temp on the gauge will be much closer to 1/2 now. It's really only a few degrees difference.

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Old 11-18-2013, 06:39 PM   #9
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Default Re: Revs High when Clutch is pushed in

Hey Guys I know this is an old thread but I just wanted to post because I finally replaced the thermostat this weekend and the car heats up much faster and gets hotter. The needle sits right below halfway on the gauge and car runs better. I used the napa thermostat too because we don't have any advanced auto parts close by. So thanks for all your help everyone!

Do you think I'll get noticibly better gas mileage with the new thermostat?

...
1995 sl1

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Old 11-18-2013, 08:30 PM   #10
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Default Re: Revs High when Clutch is pushed in

You'll have an answer as soon as the first tank refill after a t-stat replacement. And does the engine still rev when shifting (from your initial posts back in 2-02)?

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Old 11-18-2013, 09:12 PM   #11
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Default Re: Revs High when Clutch is pushed in

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevster0522 View Post
Hey Guys I know this is an old thread but I just wanted to post because I finally replaced the thermostat this weekend and the car heats up much faster and gets hotter. The needle sits right below halfway on the gauge and car runs better. I used the napa thermostat too because we don't have any advanced auto parts close by. So thanks for all your help everyone!

Do you think I'll get noticibly better gas mileage with the new thermostat?
Maybe. Probably, in fact.

The thermostat's primary job is to allow the engine to warm up more quickly. Seriously. It does nothing to cool the engine.

I know this sounds like heresy, but it's true. The thermostat limits the bottom temperature, not the top. The rest of the cooling system does the cooling. If you have a clogged / dirty radiator, too little water in the coolant mix, a lazy water pump, a slow fan, etc., those things will cause the engine to run hot even if the thermostat is full open.

In other words, the thermostat cannot cool the engine. That's what the rest of the cooling system is for. The thermostat can only warm the engine. That's it's job. And inasmuch as it will now allow your engine to warm up to efficient operating temperature more quickly, you should definitely enjoy a MPG increase.

Whether it will be noticeable depends on your driving habits. If most of your driving is short runs, then you'll enjoy a bigger increase. If most of your driving is long runs, then somewhat less. The reason is that the lion's share of the fuel savings will result from less fuel being wasted during the warm-up time. The faster you warm up to efficient operating temperature, the less fuel you waste.

So long story short, the more cold starts you do relative to miles traveled, the more gas you should save with a properly-functioning thermostat.

-Richard

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Old 11-18-2013, 10:03 PM   #12
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Default Re: Revs High when Clutch is pushed in

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Does the engine still rev when shifting (from your initial posts back in 2-02)?
It does still rev when I let the clutch out but is still only when cold which isn't very long now.

...
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Old 11-18-2013, 10:57 PM   #13
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Default Re: Revs High when Clutch is pushed in

Whoa... you started this thread out with this:

"whenever I push the clutch in the engine will rev up"

Now you are saying it revs up when you let it out, that's a big difference in symptoms! Is there a typo in there somewhere, or has it changed completely?

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Old 11-19-2013, 12:27 AM   #14
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Default Re: Revs High when Clutch is pushed in

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevster0522 View Post
Hey Guys I know this is an old thread but I just wanted to post because I finally replaced the thermostat this weekend and the car heats up much faster and gets hotter. The needle sits right below halfway on the gauge and car runs better. I used the napa thermostat too because we don't have any advanced auto parts close by. So thanks for all your help everyone!

Do you think I'll get noticibly better gas mileage with the new thermostat?
Just the quicker warm up time should give you an MPG boost. With the weather cooling you might not notice it immediately though.

As for actual operating temp alone, I'm personally not convinced that it helps much if at all on these cars. When I switched to the warmer stat and new plugs MPG return actually went down some. Switching to another plug brand brought it back up slightly above the MPG with the original thermostat. So there might have been a slight difference with the higher operating temp over the OEM unit, but it was also with a fresh spark plug.


But as GeekOnTheHill mentions and I agree with, my drive cycle at the time was short trips where warmup time was close to half the one way trip. Quicker to temp, quicker to a good MPG return.

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Old 11-19-2013, 05:20 AM   #15
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Default Re: Revs High when Clutch is pushed in

Quote:
Originally Posted by billr View Post
Whoa... you started this thread out with this:

"whenever I push the clutch in the engine will rev up"

Now you are saying it revs up when you let it out, that's a big difference in symptoms! Is there a typo in there somewhere, or has it changed completely?
FWIW, my '95, good thermostat, good ECTS, does this when cold as well. Push the clutch in to shift and it's like you still have a toe on the gas for a second or 2.

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Old 11-19-2013, 08:23 AM   #16
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Default Re: Revs High when Clutch is pushed in

You may find this info useful or not depending ... This is for the DOHC engine but applicable to the SOHC as well. Link is to a diagram of the system.

In the S-Series cooling system there are 4 separate cooling flow loops, 3 external and 1 internal loop. These loops are in parallel with each other and all terminate at the water pump suction and the water pump provides the driving force to the coolant flow in all loops.

1) The deaeration line flow is from the water pump discharge into the block up into the head to the high point of the head(SOHC) or intake manifold(DOHC) to the reservoir then from the reservoir to the pump suction. Flow in this loop is continuous.

2) Heater loop flow is from the water pump discharge into the block up into the head to manifold to heater core to the pump suction and the reservoir also sits on this heater loop line. Flow in this loop is continuous.

3) Internal loop flow is from the water pump discharge into the block up into the head and back down from the head area through an internal passage to the pump suction. Flow in this loop is control ed by the thermostat.

4) The radiator loop flow is from the water pump discharge into the block up into the head and out the head outlet into the radiator and back to the pump suction. Flow in this loop is controlled by the thermostat.


The radiator loop(4) and internal loop(3) flow are both controlled simultaneously by the thermostat. As the radiator loop flow increases the internal loop flow decreases. The disk on the back end of the thermostat is what moves to close the internal loop as the radiator loop flow opens. Both thermostat disks move in the same direction, one is opening increasing loop flow as the other is closing reducing loop flow.

The total cooling system flow passes the ECTS so you should always know what the bulk coolant temperature is. The thermostat control element is sensing the coolant temperature in the water pump suction chamber.

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/sho...ng-s/cat/12963


Quote:
Originally Posted by GeekOnTheHill View Post
Maybe. Probably, in fact.

The thermostat's primary job is to allow the engine to warm up more quickly. Seriously. It does nothing to cool the engine.

I know this sounds like heresy, but it's true. The thermostat limits the bottom temperature, not the top. The rest of the cooling system does the cooling. If you have a clogged / dirty radiator, too little water in the coolant mix, a lazy water pump, a slow fan, etc., those things will cause the engine to run hot even if the thermostat is full open.

In other words, the thermostat cannot cool the engine. That's what the rest of the cooling system is for. The thermostat can only warm the engine. That's it's job. And inasmuch as it will now allow your engine to warm up to efficient operating temperature more quickly, you should definitely enjoy a MPG increase.

Whether it will be noticeable depends on your driving habits. If most of your driving is short runs, then you'll enjoy a bigger increase. If most of your driving is long runs, then somewhat less. The reason is that the lion's share of the fuel savings will result from less fuel being wasted during the warm-up time. The faster you warm up to efficient operating temperature, the less fuel you waste.

So long story short, the more cold starts you do relative to miles traveled, the more gas you should save with a properly-functioning thermostat.

-Richard

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Old 11-19-2013, 10:00 AM   #17
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Default Re: Revs High when Clutch is pushed in

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
You may find this info useful or not depending ... This is for the DOHC engine but applicable to the SOHC as well. Link is to a diagram of the system.

In the S-Series cooling system there are 4 separate cooling flow loops, 3 external and 1 internal loop. These loops are in parallel with each other and all terminate at the water pump suction and the water pump provides the driving force to the coolant flow in all loops.

1) The deaeration line flow is from the water pump discharge into the block up into the head to the high point of the head(SOHC) or intake manifold(DOHC) to the reservoir then from the reservoir to the pump suction. Flow in this loop is continuous.

2) Heater loop flow is from the water pump discharge into the block up into the head to manifold to heater core to the pump suction and the reservoir also sits on this heater loop line. Flow in this loop is continuous.

3) Internal loop flow is from the water pump discharge into the block up into the head and back down from the head area through an internal passage to the pump suction. Flow in this loop is control ed by the thermostat.

4) The radiator loop flow is from the water pump discharge into the block up into the head and out the head outlet into the radiator and back to the pump suction. Flow in this loop is controlled by the thermostat.


The radiator loop(4) and internal loop(3) flow are both controlled simultaneously by the thermostat. As the radiator loop flow increases the internal loop flow decreases. The disk on the back end of the thermostat is what moves to close the internal loop as the radiator loop flow opens. Both thermostat disks move in the same direction, one is opening increasing loop flow as the other is closing reducing loop flow.

The total cooling system flow passes the ECTS so you should always know what the bulk coolant temperature is. The thermostat control element is sensing the coolant temperature in the water pump suction chamber.

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/sho...ng-s/cat/12963
Interesting information. Thanks.

-Richard

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Old 11-19-2013, 11:41 AM   #18
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Default Re: Revs High when Clutch is pushed in

It is a dual disk thermostat and the function of the device is to establish the minimum engine operating temperature once warmed up.

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Old 11-19-2013, 12:38 PM   #19
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Default Re: Revs High when Clutch is pushed in

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Originally Posted by billr View Post
Whoa... you started this thread out with this:

"whenever I push the clutch in the engine will rev up"

Now you are saying it revs up when you let it out, that's a big difference in symptoms! Is there a typo in there somewhere, or has it changed completely?
Haha sorry that's a typo I meant to say it still revs when I push the clutch in.

...
1995 sl1

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Old 11-19-2013, 03:43 PM   #20
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Default Re: Revs High when Clutch is pushed in

Well, then I'm thinking that all that talk about T-stats and ECT aren't really germane. There should be virtually no difference in engine operation when sitting in neutral with the clutch pedal out or when the clutch pedal is pushed in. I have to assume you are sitting in neutral when the clutch pedal is out, otherwise the engine would be trying to move the car and there is much more that we have to ask. Obviously (?) if the engine is trying to move the car and you push the clutch pedal in it will rev up because it is no longer under load. Point is, we need the complete and exact story, and if I am right and engine speed is changing when clutch pedal is pushed in and trans is in neutral, then there is something going on down in the trans or clutch area; forget about engine temp for this revving.

Edit: forgot about the crank, that too can get affected when clutch pedal is pushed in.

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